"Muzzleloading" name for this forum?

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dadman

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Would it be better to change the name of this forum from "Blackpowder Shooting" to "Muzzleloading"?
Or, should a seperate forum be created for muzzleloaders that use powder other than blackpowder?
Has this been addressed before?

A name change may attract more viewers due to more shooters using smokeless front-stuffers like the Savage and SMI H&R/NEF conversion, some shooters not considering their in-line a "blackpowder" rifle, etc.

Just started using a muzzleloader this year for hunting. An in-line.
Helping a freind identify a used Hawken type rifle that was given to him so that he may find a replacement nipple.
 
I think it's pretty obvious black powder = muzzleloading. There are a hell of alot more black powder shooters here than there are muzzleloading shooters who use other powders. And not all black powder shooting is muzzleloading.
 
Sundance44s

If she loads from the muzzle she`s a muzzle loader ....Most of us like the real black powder more than the subs ...but i know some just can`t find the real thing in their area , so all they know are subs .
Some of us even stuff the subs in our black powder cartrage guns ..........but nothing sounds and smells like the real deal .
 
What a feeling!!

BP-FIX.jpg



Breath IN & IN & INNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!
 
I think it's pretty obvious black powder = muzzleloading. There are a hell of alot more black powder shooters here than there are muzzleloading shooters who use other powders. And not all black powder shooting is muzzleloading.
...more black powder shooters here...
Here, at this site? Maybe, maybe not.
Myself, I started using 777. In my area, shooting supply stores don't sell true blackpowder. Don't know of any ML shooters in the area that are using blackpowder.

Another consideration:
"Blackpowder & Muzzleloading".

If the BP purists want a dedicated forum, then maybe a seperate forum for the newer ML's would be a useful addition.
I think THR, as good as it is, would be a little better.
Tried searching about smokeless ML's, SMI, etc., here. Couldn't find anything, and went elsewhere.
If I were to come across some 'alternative to BP' info or had some experience to share, should it be posted in "Blackpowder Shooting"? Some other forum/catagory?
We do want to retain and expand our members, viewers and users, right?
 
What a feeling!!
Oh yeah, can't deny that!
When I see some 'true' ML's show up at the range, I scoot on down to partake of the second hand smoke :)
 
Generally speaking I think its a regional thing. The side hammer rifles with irons are real big west of the Mississippi because its all that they are allowed to use. East of the big river your allowed scoped inlines with subs. Smokeless even. I don't stop by here much because I have and use all the no no's. Inline, smokeless, saboted copper bullet, 209 primers, with a scope. They would hang you for less, say in Colorado....For me its still muzzle loading, and I have limited time to hunt so I will take every advantage my game laws will give me. All that said I would also like to see and would likely partake in a "Modern Muzzle Loader" section of THR.
 
Now there`s the proper name for the other side of this coin ...Modern Muzzleloading . Lots of the ole timers still around , with good ideas that load from the front .
 
Remember the first MUZZLELOADER I made when I was 10 years old in 1956. A little fuse fired brass plumbing pipe cannon fueled with match-heads: it worked TOO!
 
Teddy Roosevelt didn't have much time so they tied a bear up for him to shoot...extreme yes but then "modern" muzzleloading is the same thing to me...want to use scopes and smokeless and inlines...take em out during the regular season...the point for me is to shoot primitive...if you're just a deer whacker...do it during the deer whacker season
 
dadman, Even though I'm a modernist, I like the current forum name just the way it is. And I also don't believe that there needs to be a second forum. :)
BP is a generic term that every shooter should be familiar with, and I really can't believe that anybody could possibly confuse it with the brand name of a major oil corporation or their multitude of gasoline stations. Nor do I think that the term "BP Shooting" could cause someone enough confusion to go out and actually shoot up a gas station, I mean someone would really have to be confounded to go out and do that sort of thing, even if they were on drugs! :D
 
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The thing to do is ....

When i see a post here that has the work INLINE in it ...i don`t read it , I don`t shoot`em don`t want for one .....and don`t want to read about them .
 
sundance44s , the in-lines are cheaper to make and no one seems to know it...they are also encouraged by the company lawyers and their monochromatic view of the world...also, Wal-Mart prefers them because the clerks don't need to know anything about the product or sport...then neither does the customer of course...
 
ODD THING

We had a inline shooter join our black powder club a few months back ...wasn`t long for him to see we enjoy our sport for pennys a shot ...so i sold him a good side hammer T/C Hawken ...Odd thing is ..i had to give him lessons on how to load it ...Being only an inline shooter he had never used loose powder and patched round balls before .....and lube ...he said whats LUBE for ......Any way to make it a short story ...his inline now resides in a dark closet never to see the light of day again ...And i enjoyed watching the smiles on his face when he saw just how good an ole side hammer could shoot a round ball ....so i have to give these inline shooters a chance , if they only knew ...our side hammers are whats its all about , and its hard to inprove on the perfection .
 
I have a cheap inline. I find I can see that some thought has gone into reducing production costs, and I find I can applaud the success of the endeavour.
I bought it cheap, probably discounted, as an intro to muzzle loading. I will be moving on to something more 'classical', but while this is what I have I'm enjoying it.

I would describe my attitude as open minded. Without wanting to be rude to anyone, I do find it difficult to understand why so many established muzzle loader users seem to take aversion to them. I would have expected the attitude to be "Oh, a new toy..."
Any one want to try to enlighten me?

Flak jacket on...
 
hee hee hee just a thought, but if that pureist bug ever bites me, I would like to take my Traditions Tracker in-line out: load her up with smokeless and tie her to a tree to see just how much abuse she could take. Thought that the day I bought her on discount for $79.95. With the heavy slam-bolt hitting that 209 and tough hard steel that the spainish are now putting into their guns she might surprise me. What's a good strong powder load combo for the 458 Winchester Magnum? Think I will start there and work up :evil:

come-on-guys all is in jest~~~~like I said, the first gun I built when I was ten was a fuse fired in-line built from plumbing supplies, forgot to mention that I blew that one up too when I switched from match heads to blackpowder striped out of some M-80s
 
My rifle

I have been shooting since I made my first “cannon” at about 10 years of age…in those days, one could go to the local hardware store and buy single shot gun shells. I’d cut them apart and use the powder in my home made wooden guns…they were good for several shots before they split (very light charges as I was conserving my pop bottle money). As I aged I got better at making them and then started making my own gunpowder (probably gleaned the recipe from a Boy Scout manual). I was lucky and at 16 I found my own personal Old Man for a mentor (think Patrick F McManus). He was a real collector and understood that a bunch of guns is not a collection unless there is a theme. That theme is important because it keeps an order and thrust to an endeavor. An aesthetic compass if you will. Sorta like a space mission…we could just shoot things out into space but isn’t it better to plan beyond the fiery rush of a rocket?…remember it because that “theme” follows my thoughts through this all.

I began shooting muzzle loaders in earnest in 1964 (I was 16 years old) and snuck around through the woods in fear of being laughed at with my muzzle loading pistol (remember I was a teen age'er :) ).

I have always had an interest in history and try to understand from that perspective. I would like to ride a horse across Yellowstone dressed like Bridger…but I have to have all the trappings including the rifle even if I have no plans to shoot it…without it, it wouldn’t be the same and I would feel cheated or incomplete. I read the Leather Stocking series and books I’ve forgotten the names of…about ships and islands and treasure and storms. At about 17 I took up hunting and though I was abysmal as a hunter I persevered and got a little better. I went years as a complete failure as a deer hunter till my cousin pointed out that Phillip would rather shoot the gun and not the deer…EUREKA! I did continue hunting but I quit feeling like a failure…I finally shot my first deer and since then I have been at peace with my inability to regularly kill deer. There was a better “theme” I found and that was competition and reenactment as a buckskinner. Primitive hunting whether archery or muzzle loading is no longer a passion but I have a deep respect for it…the best hunters in the woods are very likely archers (not cross bows or even compound). They set up rules which limit themselves; perhaps they hunt with a compound but maybe they hunt with wooden arrows and home made bows…a message carried by the grey goose and limited by the same grey goose. Stepping into the woods with the same tackle carried by native aboriginals the world over, slipping along a woodland path, listening to squirrels and chickadees and becoming a part of the fabric of the land is a very satisfying experience, in fact, it is primal.

I can squat down and start a fire with my flint and steel. The resulting fire is indistinguishable from one started with a lighter or match…but “I” know the difference and am satisfied. Dad used to tell me that there is no way to “cheat” at solitaire but he went on to explain that simply turning up the cards with no possibility of “losing” is likely to be a boring labor. It is much better to loose more than to win and give value to the winning in the process. Like canned hunts, turning up the cards without the possibility of losing makes shallow people out of us…the complete hunter must set limits and rules to make success a valuable reward…a reward worth the candle. Success then becomes a mature satisfaction and not simply a vulgar indulgence and THAT separates the men from the boys.

I shoot a light .40 caliber flint lock these days. I made it myself and stuck to what I think is a southern blacksmith-made school. The bulk of my competition was done with a .54 cap lock with fixed sights; I adjusted for range by varying the powder charge…no bells and whistles…just one man and one gun. I got my butt kicked at the firing line by a lot of very fine marksmen but except in the very beginning, never by an in-line or a townie with a laminated thumb-hole stock. And those who whipped me all respected my efforts…they were simply better shots and that was that.

A little poem I wrote to explain my interest in sailing…

I Want

I want to see whales again...and porpoise...and a shark...and bioluminescence in water that’s dark.

I want to stand my watch at the helm and to feel the largeness of the sea and the smallness of me.

I want to look out on the circled horizon…and know it’s not changed for years upon years and Columbus, too, saw what I now hold my eyes on.

I fear to be tossed in my ship in the sea but fear more to be lost in the vessel that’s me.
 
Phillip Allen Not against you, your post is great! just that a BP forum worried about being called somthing else cause they use fake powder. This would never occur with rock lock shooters!
 
Thats a remarkably frank account of the development of your tastes in shooting. Thankyou for the insights. I can certainly understand a desire to do things "properly", to prcatice some craft in a way that the practitioners of the past would have recognised. Much more satisfying than the modern approach of steaming in with a Dremel in each hand and a credit card clenched between the teeth :D

Certainly in line muzzle loaders have no part in history, being a very recent development, but you seem to be going further and suggesting that they are in some way a cheat.
I have read enough to have picked up that they were developed and marketed as a way for centrefire hunters to extend their deer season into days previously reserved for archers/muzzle loaders, without having to learn any new skills. I can imagine feeling quite picqued at suddenly having to share the woods with crowds of chaps who were still using telescopic sights for long shots and making close stalking very difficult. There's certainly exploitation of the rules there (one of the problems of the modern world), if not outright cheating.
Could this be the basis of what seems to be quite a degree of animosity? Over there, maybe, but it's hard to see how that reasoning could apply over here...
There isn't a tidy answer to every problem!
 
Most of us who cheat end up only cheating ourselves and we don't even know it...education is the only thing which can cure it and some of us resist education...I could take a primed, empty shell and shove it into a modern rifle then up end the thing and finish loading down the muzzle...to some that might be muzzle loading but not to me...they have cheated themselves and will stop as they mature.

As to the market flooding of the in-line and similar stuff...these are not being designed by plack powder shooters but, rather, by engineers who's job is to design something that costs $25 to manufacture and can be marketed for $100 to capture the Wal-Mart traffic and other short-cut takers. If you want to see how sencere folks are, give them a short season to hunt and they must make up their minds a season ahead to hunt primitive or not without extension of season...everybody will fall back to a rifle which holds the maximum number of shots because the dead deer is more important than the hunt. they are invested in success without knowing what success even is. so the defination becomes symbolic...dead deer=success. It's sorta like special olympics...ya get an unlimited number of strikes because it's PC to have no losers and everyone a winner...hitting the ball with the stick becomes "success" and running the bases or catching the ball or covering the bases is just filler while it is someone elses turn to swing the stick at the ball...mindless (not a put down on the kids in special olympics but if I have to explain that then someone's not thinking very hard)
 
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