"Muzzleloading" name for this forum?

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Phillip, I couldn't have said it better myself. If they want to use them to hunt in the modern season, my hat's off to them. But black powder season is all about limits. The same type of limits that archery presents. It's more about the hunter's ability and discipline and less about the weapon itself. If the inliners want to load a lead conical or round ball, and use open sights, I don't mind having them in muzzleloader season. To me it's not about aesthetics, but about limits. Something that the lazy folks who just want to use our season to extend their own, dislike.

Centerfire ballistics, centerfire season. Black powder ballstics, black powder season. Seems reasonable to me, and it's how it was originally meant to be.

I see the inlines as being very versatile. Load them with pellets and sabots, drop a scope on them and hunt the modern season. Load them with a conical or ball, pull the scope and hunt the muzzleloader season. All with the same gun.

Me, I'll trudge around the woods carrying my trusty sidelock, knowing that this is how my great, great, great grandfather hunted. Heck, I do that in modern season too most of the time.
 
You know what fellas I've seen this kind of debate ruin other forums by makin enemies of folks who should just be sharin their love of black powder shootin. Lets just keep the name as it is and welcome all who enter.

Don
 
Well...I did point out that I shoot a buffalo rifle with black powder and a cap and ball revolver is NOT a muzzle loading gun...this is black powder...Having said that, however, I am new to this forum and still learning your rules. I don't usually get on gun forums...I used to work as a gunsmith and run a shop and guess I've just talked about guns enough to satisfy myself...
 
Donny wrote:
You know what fellas I've seen this kind of debate ruin other forums by makin enemies of folks who should just be sharin their love of black powder shootin. Lets just keep the name as it is and welcome all who enter.

Don
Click to expand...
I guess keeping the forum name as is would be o.k.
It does get the point across, even to me!

Whatever you shoot, it all depends on shot placement, projectile weight and hunting/tracking skill if used for hunting.

I welcome the use of optics, in-lines and smokeless for hunting. Decreases the number of lost, wounded and hobbled deer.

Again, shot placement matters, old or new tech.

Are there some flint shooters who look down on and disapprove of percussion cap users? Are caps considered "cheating"?

I was going to get a "traditional"/sidelock blackpowder rifle because I really hadn't given much thought or research into other alternatives.
But, the more I read and heard, the newer developments in muzzleloading are a good thing from a reliability and economic viewpoint.
I think I'll get one of each, a sidelock and a smokeless.

Inline,reliable common 209 primers, choice of loose or pellet powders, newer smokeless options(cleaner, cheaper).

Smokeless: Increased game recovery. Seeing shot effect and/or deer flight path.

Sidelock: More traditional, more dependent on shooter skills.

I used the loose 777 during practice and hunting this season. Weighed out the powder, put into small tubes and poured into muzzle when ready to shoot.

Some sites and info on the newer stuffers:
http://www.sav10ml.com/pages/main.htm
http://dougva.proboards34.com/index.cgi?board=Savage
http://www.savagearms.com/muzzleloader_home.htm
http://www.smokelessmuzzleloading.com/
http://randywakeman.com/
http://randywakeman.com/savage3.htm
http://randywakeman.com/ballltd38.htm
http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/
 
There is a fair amount of snobbery in terms of flint vs. percussion, sidelock vs. inline and I find it all a waste of time. I don't give a hoot who shoots what as long as they enjoy shooting it. I started out with an inline and moved on to sidelocks and revolvers cause I like them. If you like flint thats great if you like inlines your ok too. My point in making the the post is that I have seen enough snobbery at rendezvous and on line and I think it is all a bore and waste of energy. The only time it should matter is in organized competitions where like guns should compete together for the sake of fairness. Setting up the this forum to make deliniations by gun type will only set us up for this kind of divisive nonsense. Sorry about bein on the soap box. I'll stop ranting now.

Don
 
Current name sounds good to me. I don't shoot muzzle loaders and have never been all that attracted to them. I am just getting started with cartridge BP guns (Browning BPCR, 1866 and hammer shotshell guns, etc). Whilst I have never gotten into nor have I ever shown a bit of interest in in-line muzzle loaders, I sparkled up when I saw the Remington 700 inline rifle, not enough to buy one, but if I was cashed up and tripped over one at gun shop, I think I'd have trouble resisting it, especially a camo one. The falling block inline boat oar that I see heavily touted in yankee gunmags is a real eyesore.
 
Donny, snobbery is someone decrying your inexpensive imitation Hawken in favor of his much more expensive one...complaining about non primitive weapons being used in a primitive season is not the same thing...never was...a non sequitur. Perhaps you might have known that anyway. A clean kill is not the driving force in hunting choices. If it was then a lot of more casual variables would be removed including caliber and ranges allowed and sights and conditions and many, many more...reducing the experience to that of a "canned" hunt...what joy! "Clean kill" is an excuse for a lot more hunters using scopes on cheap in-lines with huge shotgun battery cups than it is a goal. When the killing of a deer, any deer, becomes more important than the hunt and its limitations, we have all of lost something and I am sorry for it. My aim is to educate or show a better way of thinking with no animus and only good thoughts and wishes.

I rejoice for those who get it and hold hope for those who have not got it...yet.
 
Phillip,

Not knockin your point of view cause I happen to agree with it. Just sayin the debate is not a new one and I've seen it get ugly to the point where forums have been shut down as a result. Now I'm not sayin you've been uncivil in any way, you've been a real gentleman. But I've seen other folks just get to thinkin their right and won't let go until someone's feelins are hurt. I really enjoy this forum and want it to stay friendly.

Respectfully,

Don
 
If purity is your goal, then walk or ride a horse to the range, cast your own balls over a campfire...heck, make your own black powder.
I'm confused about the Special Olympics reference - are you saying that their method of playing baseball (or anything they do) is not "right"?
Maybe I misunderstood.

I have to add this question in regards to your statement: "My aim is to educate or show a better way of thinking with no animus and only good thoughts and wishes." What the...what are you talking about? You come onto a gun forum trying to teach us a better way to think? You're kidding, right? And you rejoice if we "get it?"
Hold the rejoicing...I don't get it.

Also, I don't hunt - at all - but to me a successful hunt would mean a deer on the roof of my car, a deer that died without suffering.
 
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Cutting the wood for winter would be where I'd fall down and it was where most of the the people on that show where they re-created the conditions that pioneers lived under missed out. Now, Where's my good ol' chainsaw?;)

Very satisfying doing these things though. I can remember the feeling of satisfaction when I was bring up the kids when we had a lot of garden produce dried, frozen and stored under the house, a bit of meat in the freezer and a pantry full of tinned and dried goods. I was really pleased with myself. There were a few times where we sailed a little close to the wind however, sold some rifles that I'd sooner not have had to part with.
 
pohill, I believe I have expressed myself poorly...again. I take short cuts with my writing out of laziness and those short cuts lead people to the wrong conclusions sometimes...for that I apologize and will try to re state my thoughts better. In the case of special Olympics, those kids (I know who they are as I have helped with it before and once had a girl friend with a daughter with such a limitation...it's not a sin...just a limitation that is out of sync with most of us). My point (help me here so I don't do it again please) is to endeavor to play all the way up to my own limitations...I can do nicely with 3 strikes but to keep swinging with a foggy set of rules cheats myself...I learned a long time ago not to play a game I can't afford to lose.

Purity is not my goal but, rather, an appreciation of the point (my point) of the endeavor. My point is to experience an earlier mind-set. I can start that fire with flint and steel but I can't do it as anything other than a novelty because I am aware of other options. Our forebears (at some point) had no other better options and that mind-set is unavailable to me...I approach it as nearly as I can and accept that limitation.

Some people want power over the deer...that is the limitation they have placed on themselves. I strive for power over myself...the deer is easy, you shoot it, it falls down and experiences fear and a desire to live and a desire to breath and shock and eventual death (it may take a few seconds or longer...not all of which do we have much control over). When I kill the proverbial deer, I do my best to make it quick within my own limitations. Quick killing certainly is not the only limitation on hunting or there would be no archery season. It follows, then, that "quick kill" is defined by the limitation we place on the rule of the hunt. For instance, if we hunt with a spear, then the "quickness" of the kill is defined in relation to other ...spear... kills but not to kills with poison darts or high power rifles. Keep it in context.

Getting it...simply means that someone sees through my lens...works the same when you get me to see through your lens...getting it is the catharsis of conflict between two points of view.
 
I get ya now...kinda. The idea of the Special Olympics is to bring every kid up to their potential, no matter what that is. I don't see how that relates to hunting...maybe to a hunter, but not to the sport in general.

I don't hunt, though I see the need for hunting, if only to control a herd. Also, you kill it, I'll eat it. But, in my mind, a good hunt is a quick hunt; find the deer, shoot it, kill it (with one shot if possible, to save lead). If I did hunt, I think I'd want the most powerful, most accurate, easiest to carry weapon allowed, but I also see the attraction of using a Hawkins (I have one) or even a bow (I have one).
Some guys are against hunting with, say, a Remington .44 or Walker, but, to me, they're more lethal than a bow. But with a bow, the hunt becomes more important - you have to be able to stalk close enough for a good shot. I have a friend in Utah who gave up hunting with his 30.06 because it was too easy, and he switched to a bow.
Yep, I get ya now. Zen and the Art of Black Powder Shooting...I'm with ya.
 
Back when I taught the Arkansas Hunter Safety Course I hit upon a way of explaining what ethical hunting was: If the people we hire to tend to the hunting of animals could be assured that all hunters would be ethical hunters, there would be no minimum caliber. Ya can kill a 800 pound beef with a .22 short...but it's gotta be placed right and real close. The same applies to deer...but ya gotta be a real good hunter and not take short cuts...most seemed to understand. I used to favor scopes but over time I realize that many, and I mean many, hunters think the scope extends the range of their rifle...it does not. It extends the range of your eye; the rifle doesn't change.
 
Ah, Grasshopper, your meaning becomes clearer to me now.
Bear with me - I have a Celeron processor for a brain...time to upgrade to a Pentium.
So, in regards to the Special Olympics, you're saying (?) that swinging at the ball as many times as you can with no concern for a "score" relates to a hunter taking "swings" at the deer with no regards to the kill. Good point.
Good point, too, about scopes.
You had me worried when you talked about teaching a better way to think - I live in Massachusetts and everyone wants to teach us a better way to think: liberals, anti-gunners, Yankee fans...
 
WHEW!!
I'm glad things have calmed down here. I asked my earlier question in all innocence and had no intention to hijack the thread or start a squabble.

To address the original topic, and as a newcomer I offer my opinion with all due diffidence, I would vote to retain the title Blackpowder Shooting.

Historically muzzle loaders, breech loaders and the first metallic cartridges were used side by side in the backwoods and on the battle field, and not all that long ago. If you describe yourself as a blackpowder shooter you're telling people something about your interests over and above what type of gun you have. It has an inclusive feel. which is nice!
 
I don't particularly care what you want. The name is fine, people find it, there is lots of discussion here.

There is no problem with the name of the sub other than the one conjured up in your mind.

here we go... one more time...

some neurotic discomfort feeling, a chimera of the mind, and someone just HAS to try and pawn their control problem off on other people.

The name of this sub is simply the name. You know what it means, you know what is here. You know that if you ask about inlines or front stuffers or revolvers, that if you word the heading correctly, you will get appropriate responses.

Its no problem for US. Why should we stroke the mental illness of a singular entity?

I seldom, if ever see you posting here.
So what's your point? Histrionics eventually?

I mean: why don't you change YOUR name to Momman instead of dadman?
(you ought to respond that it is mostly because you have no REAL reason to.)

This reminds me of the gb site. There's always someone whining about the pettiest thing, trying to get everyone upset and on THEIR side as if it were important at all in the first place. I hang out here to stay away from that.

No dude, I don't want someone stirring the "pot of stupid" over here. If ya don't like what we have to offer... beat it. Or stay and play. That would be fine too. But drop it with the control issues.

Just stop it please.
 
I have a friend in Utah who gave up hunting with his 30.06 because it was too easy, and he switched to a bow.
Click to expand...

That's exactly why I use a black powder gun for most of my hunting. There's a difference between actual hunting and "just killing a deer". Hunting had become routine, and I like a challenge. Having to get close enough to use a round ball effectively is a nice challenge.
 
I looked at the link above but stopped reading when I got to the guy's post about his .375 equivalent scoped rifle complaining about the whiners...he has old eyes...so what? I have old eyes but can still out shoot a lot...no... most younger guys in the deer woods (that's just a weak excuse)...to me it is the same as the steroid use in sports...the ethic is set by the cheater. I was in on the beginning of muzzle loading season in my state and the cheaters coming in now are nothing better than thieves...they may be more of them and mob rule is very liberal of them...liberal to themselves. Get a life...get a little integrity! (BTW I never cheated on my wife either)

rant...pant, pant, wheeze
 
Phillip Allen said:

pohill, I believe I have expressed myself poorly...again. I take short cuts with my writing out of laziness and those short cuts lead people to the wrong conclusions sometimes...for that I apologize and will try to re state my thoughts better.
Click to expand...

I was in on the beginning of muzzle loading season in my state and the cheaters coming in now are nothing better than thieves...they may be more of them and mob rule is very liberal of them...liberal to themselves. Get a life...get a little integrity! (BTW I never cheated on my wife either)
Click to expand...

Reagan-hittin-head-ani.gif
 
This thread has run its course.

As to the name of the forum, well, that was decided before we opened to the public. That inlines and black powder substitutes are allowed to be discussed here is because open discussions within the shooting community is healthy for the community to thrive. In the course of our discussions, we may be impassioned by our feelings, but we should never take it personal. We start as friends, disagree, and part as friends.
 
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