My 1911 appears to not like SWC bullets

[bernie]

I have hand loaded for years and my 1911 eats just about anything fed through it. It even handles 200 gr. Speer HP's without even a burp. I recently picked up some Speer 200 gr. FMJ SWC's and loaded a few up with a pretty warm load of Unique. 2 out of 15 choked my sidearm. What OAL should I load these? My first thought is that may be the problem. Any other ideas?

 

[nettlle]

There are different styles of 200 gr. SWC's and different OAL's that go with the different styles. For the H & G #68 style my OAL is 1.240".

 

[LiveLife]

Use the barrel to determine the max OAL and incrementally decrease the length of the dummy round until it feeds/chambers reliably from the magazine reliably when the slide is released - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=506678

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I use the old rule of thumb of just a thumbnails thickness of the body sticking out above the rims case.

 

[joneb]

I've tried 200gr Plated SWC for a Colt 70 series Mk IV, I tried various COL's with dismal results. I have no trouble with RN, FP or HP's.

 

[LiveLife]

joneb, OP did not mention the make of the 1911.

bernie, what 1911 are you loading for?

 

[joneb]

I use the old rule of thumb of just a thumbnails thickness of the body sticking out above the rims case

^ This got me as close to a workable COL as I could get, and then I played with various crimps, I just could never find a reliable load with that bullet.

 

[Alliant Reloading]

bernie,
Speer did their testing on the 200gr TMJSWC (part 4475) at 1.275".
Their test weapon was a Sig P220, so that COAL worked for that gun at least.
I have never loaded that particular SWC, but my Colt Series 70 likes a little lead above the rim (maybe a 16th" or a little more) for cast lead. When I loaded them shorter, I would have some feed issues from hanging up on the feed ramp. I don't recall the COAL I load, but it may very well be the same as my ball round, which would be 1.265".
Good luck,
Paul

 

[Walkalong]

I run the standard commercial cast 200 SWC (Not the H&G 68) at 1.260 to 1.1265 OAL and have had good luck with them. I have also shot the Ranier 200 Gr SWC and the Hornady encapsulated 200 Gr SWC at that OAL with good luck.

 

[bernie]

I am running a series 80 Colt. I think that they may have been a smidge short. Which is what I was thinking when I started this post. I will make some more up and try them this afternoon.

 

[243winxb]

Any other ideas?

a pretty warm load of Unique. choked my sidearm.

A change in slide speed may "choke" or make feeding problems. Depends on the kind of "choking"

 

[horseman1]

Looking over my notes, I used that bullet in the past in my 1911. My notes say that I got good reliability at 1.245". I recall making dummy rounds and playing with them for a while.

H1

 

[Rule3]

Those pesky SWC made me quit loading them for a while. It is all about the COL just a hair difference in COL makes the difference.

As ColtPhyton Elite mentioned start with just a thumbnail width of the driving band showing, do not over crimp.

Just a thousandth plus or minus can make it go or not go.

 

[konertjm]

Wow! You guys are good, especially Walkalong. Fantastic pics and info in the linked thread.

I have been experimenting with different 200 gr SWC.

I started with lubed lead from a shooting buddy. I don't remember what mold he used, but he did say it was no longer mfg'd. These worked perfectly in both of my 1911's. His instructions, and the advice of other shooters in the group I shoot with, was basically, load the SWC so that about 1/32nd of the shoulder shows above the case.

I didn't like the smoke and fouling from the lead with Tightgroup, and started experimenting with other SWC, coated from Missouri Bullet and Gateway Bullet.

I had feeding issues with both, they were seated the same as the lead, about 1/32nd above the case.

I have also tried Xtreme Plated 200 gr SWC, and have the same if not worse feeding issues.

I know that the profile of each of these varies according to the design of the mold, but had no idea it played such a complex part in the feeding issues.

Based on this thread, and Walkalongs excellent photography skills, looks like I will be developing a separate seating depth for each one.

 

[rsrocket1]

I'll have to throw my hat in with ColtPythonElite, joneb, and Rule3.

A good starting point is a tumbnail's thickness of shoulder above the rim is a good starting point depending on how much milk is in your diet

In my gun as with others, the seat depth seemed to have to be perfect, otherwise 3 point jam city. The magazine also seemed to make a difference. The old full length taper feed lips were more temperamental than the ones with the abrupt change. This was with my old Thompson Auto Ordnance 1911 which feeds roundball perfectly.

I bought a box of 500 Bear Creek 200g SWC and after 100, temporarily gave up and tried unsuccessfully to dump the rest at a discount. No takers. I tried again and was gettting mixed results until I finally thought I hit the jackpot with the right setup right when the box ran out . Bought another box and got mixed results again

Gave up and bought a Lee TL452-230-TC. These feed perfectly and casting my own paid for the mold in savings with the first 500 casts. Someone gave me a few hundred plated SWC's recently and the same thing happened. Intermittent 3 point jams.

Bottom line, it can be done if you keep everything else constant. Mixing magazines, powder loads grip strength might change the reliability. Too many variables for me to try to make one load work with all other combinations. I now simply use my cast bullets or will use round nose lead, plated or jacketed bullets for this gun.

 

[earplug]

Define choked.

Can be something as simple as a .451 will work and .452 won't.

Tite extractor holds the cartridge just enough so it hits the feed ramp and stops.

Three point choke?

A thick meplat works better on my guns then a thin one like on the LEE 200 SWC.

A change in magazine spring tension, recoil spring tension or any of the above will effect feeding.

 

[rsrocket1]

^^^ agree 100% and that's what made it so frustrating to me.

Sometimes it seemed like the time of day or season made a difference in reliability. Too many variables and sometimes they seemed to work against each other. I'm sure there are some who have excellent reliability with SWC's in their 1911 and can shoot anything from pellets to paintballs without jamming.

My gun was probably built straight from GI standards meant to shoot FMJ RN and it does this very well. Fortunately I found a bullet mold that casts a bullet that falls within the picky tolerance of my gun and it works with all loads, magazines and springs and costs 2.8 cents with the current price of lead I buy.

To the OP, if you want 200g bullets because they are cheaper than 230g bullets, maybe you can look for 200g RN bullets. If you want SWC's because of the nice hole they punch, you may or may not have a lot of testing to do. It's frustrating to have a range session with a bunch of jams, but it's still fun to go out shooting.

 

[Sunray]

Your pistol set up to shoot SWC's? Back of the chamber needs to be chamfered about half way up the sides. Most new pistols come that way. If so, it's usually the OAL or the taper crimp isn't right.

 

[Kingcreek]

I've put thousands of 200gr LSWC through 3 different 1911's with no hiccups. all 3 have polished and throated feedramps. as above, I always load so just a little bit of the bullet side shows above the rim.

 

[ReloaderFred]

I prefer the Hensley & Gibbs #68 profile for 200 gr. SWC bullets for my 1911's, and when I set up the dies, I use the same seating die I use for 230 gr. RN bullets. The #68 bullet was designed so the leading edge of the bullet will contact the feedramp at the same point as the 230 gr. RN does.

This can't be done with bullets that have a shorter nose profile, though. For those, it depends on the individual firearm and how it's set up, along with the magazines being used. Checkmate makes a magazine that helps SWC bullets feed through the 1911, so you may want to look there. Here's the link: http://checkmatemagazines.com/cart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=11&idproduct=12

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[David2011]

Another possibility is the point where the ramp meets the chamber. I've seen a lot of barrels where that intersection is left sharp, as machined. If that's the case with your barrel, take it to someone that is familiar with modifying 1911s and get them to radius that intersection. If sharp it tends to dig into the brass as it tries to transition into the chamber. This is not a place to learn with a Dremel tool. A Foredom and Cratex abrasives are the real deal for this work.

I have a 1911 in .45ACP that cycles 100% reliably shooting 200 grain SWCs from a Saeco mold which is much like the H&G 68. Further, it does it with a muzzle velocity of about 650 FPS. The action is glass smooth and the recoil spring is much lighter than stock. I agree that a bit of the body of the bullet should extend outside of the case mouth. I consider it a form of lubricant to cushion the sharp mouth of the case.

The action of chambering a round in a 1911 is harsh and violent in a perfectly tuned gun; not smooth and slick as the mind wants to believe. In a gun with rough edges the cartridge has many opportunities to not feed properly. The extractor can also contribute to difficult feeding. An unfinished extractor may feed ball ammo but cause rounds that are more difficult to feed to fail to feed. Tuning the extractor isn't terribly hard and can be done by the home gunsmith. There are many good online references.

David

 

[joneb]

This is not a place to learn with a Dremel tool.

I would agree with that statement
I have used various diameter dowels rapped with 800-5000 grit wet dry paper for such tasks as polishing feed ramps.

 

[68lemans462]

My gold cup 1911 LOVES the 200 grain MB semi wadcutter. I load it with 4.5G titegroup and leave a fingernail or so of the bullet sticking out the case. These things feed awesome in ALL my 1911's and are darn accurate too, much more than I am.