My 1911's POI is very low

[Holo]

My American Classic Deluxe II is a great 1911. Its nice and tight and i have had 0 problems with it. However, at 25' it shoots about 5" low and about 1" to the left. To get it to actually hit where i aim i have to hold the rear sights level with the bottom of the front sight. Would replacing the sights help this problem or would the gun still shoot low. Is filing down the front sight something i should consider? Just to be clear it has fixed sights with the rear being a novak style.

I could take it to the gunshop but if its something i could do myself i would much prefer that.

Any advice would be appreciated, i know there is quite the following of 1911 tinkerers on this board.

 

[PabloJ]

Real easy to fix if you have typical rear micrometer sight. Just turn both windage and elevation screws certain amount in counterclockwise direction.

 

[Holo]

The rear and front sight are both fixed. The rear is a nonadjustable Novak sight.

 

[Zerodefect]

Put slide in padded vise. Loosen rear sight setscrew gently. Use a good hex driver. Tap sight to the right just a hair. I use a plastic mm ruler to help eyeball.

Work to get your POI in the middle first. Then file down your front sight until your POI comes up to where it belongs. Then just cold blue it where you filed it down.

If you want to try a competition styled front sight: Once the gun is shooting straight, you can pop that front sight out and measure it, slide base to top. Send the height measurement to Dawson, they make custom sight heights, and get the thinnest front sight you can find. I like the .090 thick fibreoptic fronts.

5" low and 1" off center, sound pretty bad for just 8 yards! Maybe ammo and practice?

 

[Steve C]

First make sure that the shots low and to the left are not shooter induced by the various things that push shots low and left. See pic below. Move your target to 25 yds and see where it prints. 25 feet is a rang shot at for quasi combat shooting. Most pistol sights will be regulated to hit point of aim or point of impact at 25 yds.

If the front sight is plain metal there's really nothing wrong with filing it down to bring up your POI. 1911 plain dove tail front sights are relatively inexpensive, under $20 from Brownells and there's no reason to keep a sight that isn't working for you. On the theory that since you need a shorter front or taller rear the worst case scenario is that you can't shorten the sight enough and have to get a gunsmith to install the right height at a cost. Best case scenario is that your lower the sight enough to get your POI where you want and you save the cost of a new sight.

Take off only a little at a time and test after each lick or 2 with usuing a flat mill file. Get some sight black and touch up the top of the sight after you have it where you want it.

 

[Holo]

A bit of it could be jerking. I do catch myself doing that sometimes. But sometimes i really focus on not jerking and it still shoots low and left a bit.

I let my buddy shoot it who shoots and sig 226 in 2" groups at 25" and he is still low about 3" and left 1". Granted he is not as low as i am that is still pretty low for 25".

Im shooting 230gr Tul ball ammo and CCI blazer 230gr ball. Both shoot the same POI.

@KodiakBeer - That is actually a good suggestion. Ill see if i can borrow one from a friends gun and see if that affects it. I really overlooked that part but it is very influential on barrel angle.

 

[railroader]

Shoot it from a rest to make sure of where the gun is shooting. If it is really shooting 5" low at 25' your not going to have much front sight left after you start filing. Is this a new gun? If it is maybe you need to send back to the importer under warranty. Mark

 

[Holo]

It is a new gun, has probably 500 rounds through it. Ill take it to the range tomorrow and shoot it from a rest. Unfortunately the range only goes to 33' so i'm limited in how far i can shoot. If it really still is that bad from a rest i'll call metro arms and see about their warranty because i intend to carry this gun in the next few weeks but 5" is a lot. I can still hit COM but something just doesnt sit well having a gun that is that far off.

 

[nightal]

I just read a post about the customer service on a warrantied pistol from Metro Arms with a sight problem kind of like yours. he sent in to them in June and had not gotten it back, that was the middle of last month
shoot me a PM and I will give you the link.

 

[Holo]

Thanks to your link i read that post, the guy had his front sight pop off mid mag during a range session and he could not find it. He sent it back for services in June and in Oct still had not heard from them, he called and complained that they had kept telling him they had been sent the wrong part from their manufacturer. Turns out his model was an older one with GI sights rather than the more recent novak sights like mine has. He made a post on their forums and the president of the company personally talked to him and took care of it. Sounds like if you have the newer version with novak sights it should only be a month. Ill probably just take it to the gunsmith and have him put on some adjustable sights like the ones that come on most target models.

Are there any brands i should look for in getting adjustable sights?

 

[Cemetery21]

If it is a true Novak cut, I have used the Champion combat adjustable rear with good results, with a .190" front sight. Novak probaby makes one too and will do the installation and coordination of sight heights pretty reasonably. You can send them just the slide, if you don't need them to shoot it for POI.

 

[Holo]

I'll check brownell's. Thanks cemetary

 

[Holo]

I am looking at Brownell's at adjustable rear sights. Prices range from $60 to $120 depending on whether you want just plain black or tritium inserts. The ones I am looking at are Novak brand and obviously I will shop around more. They seem to sell them for Kimber, Colt, and S&W models. Im wondering if my slide shares the same cut as any of these brands or if they are all the same. Most of the descriptions say "fits most 1911 auto rear novak cuts". Again its an American Classic deluxe II.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Most of the descriptions say "fits most 1911 auto rear novak cuts". Again its an American Classic deluxe II.

Have you considered changing the front sight to adjust your POI?

I'm not familiar with the American Classic line of pistols, but if your front sight is dovetailed into the slide, a front sight change is often less expensive than a rear sight assembly

 

[9mmepiphany]

I move the post about heavier bullets striking higher or lower to it's own thread so it would read cleaner.

Let's keep this thread on track

 

[Holo]

It is dovetailed into the slide, but with my POI being so low i would have to have virtually no front sight to get it where i wanted. Adjustable rear is what im leaning towards at this point.

The Novaks will fit the AMCII cut, many users on the AMCII forums have switched theirs out, but if you want to go with an adjustable, a slight milling job needs to be done on the slide to allow the sight to pivot when you adjust it. Hoping my gunsmith will do it for <$40.

The Novak sight is $79 with the white dot model + $40 or so for the gunsmith fee and i'm looking at $120 to get my gun punching tacks, seems like money well spent assuming all goes well.

 

[xr1200]

Thats why you should always get a gun with adjustable sights, if available in that model. Most low end fixed sight guns will often be well off in poi and need to have a adjustable to compensate for it.

Handloads, bullet and load selection will also vastly change the poi.

 

[Holo]

I agree, this was my first pistol. Now i know. The good news is that i spent under $430 for this gun so putting a $120 pair of adjustable sights on it still puts it cheaper than most others that come with adjustable sights. Learned so much just from owning this 1911 that i feel like i should get it bronzed and frame it

 

[Cards81fan]

One thing that hit me today is if the sights are a center hold picture, but you are aiming for a six o'clock picture. In that instance you will be hitting lower than your intended POI.

An XD (for example) is six, a Glock is center. If you were used to an XD you may be aiming this way without consciously thinking about it.

Just a thought...

 

[1SOW]

For general range shooting or action shooting this POA-POI usually is best. The red circle is the bullet hole. If you're shooting Bullseye, at a standardized target and range, then a 6:00 hold works there.

As was said: It would be a good idea to "first" try shooting from a solid rest, slow and careful trigger press, using this sight pic. Don't even LOOK at where the bullets hit, just fire 5 rds slow-fire at exactly the same "small" target, and then go look and you should see a "small group" no matter where it's located on the target. I recommend one of those small stick-on red circles or similar "small" target.
Use this to judge sight changes needed. If two hand off-hand gives different results; work on your grip, stance and trigger pull.

 

[xr1200]

have a kart match barrel / bushing installed and you will have a very accurate gun, make sure the rear sight is adjustable for windage & elevation.

 

[Holo]

Thanks for the suggestion. New barrel and bushing are next after the adjustable Novaks.

FYI i use a 6 o'clock hold.

 

[Cards81fan]

Aiming a center hold pistol at six o'clock may well be the cause of the 5 inches.

I would check that next time at the range, and see if that resolves it.

 

[nightal]

There are lots of CO. that sell sights for your pistol, I would order a set of sights to fit it. not just the rear. can you measure the height of your front sight? for adj. sights I would want something at the least .180to .190 high.that gives your rear sight some room to move up and down. Look at Fusion Firearms site, or Kensight,or LPA sights.

 

[Holo]

Thanks nightal, these BOMAR cut sights are pretty much what i want, i just have a novak cut

Although the Novak cuts on the last page are nice. There is a pair on the second page that has the exact same angles and heights just a dif item number, same price though. Probably gonna pick a pair up, way cheaper than brownell's. Thanks again friend.