My 1911's POI is very low
- Thread starter Holo
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Cemetery21
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/\ /\ THIS, before anything else is done.
Or, as stated earlier, have a buddy put a dummy round somewhere in the magazine. Bang, Bang, Click will let you know if you need to work on the trigger pull.
Or, as stated earlier, have a buddy put a dummy round somewhere in the magazine. Bang, Bang, Click will let you know if you need to work on the trigger pull.
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I took it to the range yesterday and shot it no from a rest per say, but i rested the grip of the gun on the table. I got a pretty solid hold, obviously not as good as from sandbags but still shows that its not really a trigger pull issue. I also practice with a .22 twice a week and do dry fire drills at home and i have a pretty consistent trigger pull.
And for some pictures:
This is group 1. 8shots, 25', from the grip resting on the table
Group 2. 8 shots, 25', grip resting on the table
This is the POA I use. 6 o'clock held a slight bit into the target.
The orange stickers I use are 1" diameter for reference.
How much filing on the front sight would i need to get my POI up to the sticker??
And for some pictures:
This is group 1. 8shots, 25', from the grip resting on the table
Group 2. 8 shots, 25', grip resting on the table
This is the POA I use. 6 o'clock held a slight bit into the target.
The orange stickers I use are 1" diameter for reference.
How much filing on the front sight would i need to get my POI up to the sticker??
Change of impact on target * Sight Radius/ Distance to Target = Correction (you'll need to reduce distance to a common unit with the other measurements...you can divide by 312)
However, the rule of thumb is that you need to be able to shoot a smaller group than the desired change to determine the required sighting adjustment.
A couple of things come to mind
1. Resting the grip of the gun on a table isn't a very good way of determining the correct relationship between a handheld POA and POI...the contact with the table has a huge affect on the POI
2. 25 feet is 8 yards and one foot distant and from a rest, at that range, the shots should all be on top of each other...certainly within an inch of each other
3. They sight picture you are using isn't a 6 o'clock hold. Being a slight bit into the target is giving you a indistinct reference point and should not be used as a basis for sight adjustment.
I'd suggest you shoot at a closer distance (I recommend 5 yards/15'), get a bag/rest to steady your hold, and use an aiming point of the dot resting atop the front sight blade
However, the rule of thumb is that you need to be able to shoot a smaller group than the desired change to determine the required sighting adjustment.
A couple of things come to mind
1. Resting the grip of the gun on a table isn't a very good way of determining the correct relationship between a handheld POA and POI...the contact with the table has a huge affect on the POI
2. 25 feet is 8 yards and one foot distant and from a rest, at that range, the shots should all be on top of each other...certainly within an inch of each other
3. They sight picture you are using isn't a 6 o'clock hold. Being a slight bit into the target is giving you a indistinct reference point and should not be used as a basis for sight adjustment.
I'd suggest you shoot at a closer distance (I recommend 5 yards/15'), get a bag/rest to steady your hold, and use an aiming point of the dot resting atop the front sight blade
No offense Holo, but as 9mm above has said, at 25' those bullets should be all in one hole(1") Resting any part of the gun on a solid surface is a no no, and is worse than free handing it. Try resting your wrist on a bag next time, at 10yrds. You are still in need of some dryfire practice, my friend
Magnumite
Member
I am assuming 1.) that is 1" diameter targdot; 2.) you were holding 1/4" up into the target 3.) the sight radius is 6.5" and 4.) the center of your group is 3.25" below your POI.
You would have to file .070" off your front sight to center your group around that targdot at that distance. That is a tad over 1/16". I'd file about a third of that, then try it. But, you are probably going to be filing into the dot on your front sight. You could measure from the bottom of the rear sight dovetail to the top of the rear sight. You may be able to select a sight with the appropriate height (you sight's height + .070") or close to it. You may find an appropriately shorter front sight also.
I agree with 9mm, you need to get your groups tighter. If this is all the gun will do from a more experienced shooter, then go for it. Also, from the bench you'll get more realistic point of impact/point of aim corelation if you rest your wrists on the bench or bags. This will have a closer effect to the gun hanging out on the end of your arm.
You would have to file .070" off your front sight to center your group around that targdot at that distance. That is a tad over 1/16". I'd file about a third of that, then try it. But, you are probably going to be filing into the dot on your front sight. You could measure from the bottom of the rear sight dovetail to the top of the rear sight. You may be able to select a sight with the appropriate height (you sight's height + .070") or close to it. You may find an appropriately shorter front sight also.
I agree with 9mm, you need to get your groups tighter. If this is all the gun will do from a more experienced shooter, then go for it. Also, from the bench you'll get more realistic point of impact/point of aim corelation if you rest your wrists on the bench or bags. This will have a closer effect to the gun hanging out on the end of your arm.
If that group is a 25 ft. it reminds me of the junk SA 1911 45acp GI that shot could not even shoot 2ft groups from 25yrds from a rest.
Do this before you do anymore work to the gun, get yourself a big appliance box or a large piece of paper, plywood etc. 4ft x 4ft. so you can see where your rounds hit.
Then put up a 25 yd. bulls eye target or 6 inch black circle and shoot the gun from a solid rest and fire 3 clips at the target.
If your groups are more than 6 inches for most of the shots or 12 inch plus, then don't do anything else with it. Sell it and trade it in on a good quality colt, kimber etc.
I think the gun you have is a lemon and anyore money out into it is a money pit.
Note you can get a kimber classic 45acp for around $650 that will shoot great right out of the box.
Do this before you do anymore work to the gun, get yourself a big appliance box or a large piece of paper, plywood etc. 4ft x 4ft. so you can see where your rounds hit.
Then put up a 25 yd. bulls eye target or 6 inch black circle and shoot the gun from a solid rest and fire 3 clips at the target.
If your groups are more than 6 inches for most of the shots or 12 inch plus, then don't do anything else with it. Sell it and trade it in on a good quality colt, kimber etc.
I think the gun you have is a lemon and anyore money out into it is a money pit.
Note you can get a kimber classic 45acp for around $650 that will shoot great right out of the box.
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Ok, i was unsure of whether the grip on the bench was a bad idea. Ill free hold the gun next time while resting my arms on the bag.
I have tried correcting for it by putting the rear blade under the dot and i can get some relatively accurate shots, 2" group with 5 of the shots and then 3 random flyers that are in no particular spot.
I do need to try 25 yards and see how that affects my POI. I did some reading on the trajectory and what XR1200 said is definitely true. perhaps 25' is just too close.
I have 400-500 rounds through the gun, is there any way its just not broken in yet?
I have tried correcting for it by putting the rear blade under the dot and i can get some relatively accurate shots, 2" group with 5 of the shots and then 3 random flyers that are in no particular spot.
I do need to try 25 yards and see how that affects my POI. I did some reading on the trajectory and what XR1200 said is definitely true. perhaps 25' is just too close.
I have 400-500 rounds through the gun, is there any way its just not broken in yet?
Break is a myth, its just an agreement between gun companies and ammo companies to get you to buy ammo and shoot your gun, ie: increased sales at point of purchase.
The only real benefit of a break in is that it confirms that your gun is reliable and gets you familarized with your gun.
Believe me its all a sales gimmic, I used to work at a firearms and sporting good retailer.
When the salesman asks you if you need any accessories or ammo for the gun, it all adds up to the stores total sales and accessories are where the gun shops really make alot of money.
Many shops will just sell the guns at very small margins, and make up for the loss, with the accessories.
I love the look on a salesmans face when I tell them I only need the gun and whatever else I need I will buy online or ebay.
The only real benefit of a break in is that it confirms that your gun is reliable and gets you familarized with your gun.
Believe me its all a sales gimmic, I used to work at a firearms and sporting good retailer.
When the salesman asks you if you need any accessories or ammo for the gun, it all adds up to the stores total sales and accessories are where the gun shops really make alot of money.
Many shops will just sell the guns at very small margins, and make up for the loss, with the accessories.
I love the look on a salesmans face when I tell them I only need the gun and whatever else I need I will buy online or ebay.
Given that recoil occurs after the shot is released, how can it affect your trigger press and sight alignment?Holo said:
Holo,
Did you have someone load up for you yet? I've showed many friends that had low shooters, just how bad a push they had with that trick. They just look at you when it goes click, and they push the pistol down a few inches anticipating recoil. Its worth a try before you blame the gun/ sights. I did have a SA 1911 that shot very bad groups at 30', and low. An adjustable rear sight, and a new bushing fixed that gun
Before and after targets
Did you have someone load up for you yet? I've showed many friends that had low shooters, just how bad a push they had with that trick. They just look at you when it goes click, and they push the pistol down a few inches anticipating recoil. Its worth a try before you blame the gun/ sights. I did have a SA 1911 that shot very bad groups at 30', and low. An adjustable rear sight, and a new bushing fixed that gun
Before and after targets
Try an exercise like this
These are 1" squares shot at 5 yards (15')...what you're seeing is variations in grip pressure during the trigger press
These are 1" squares shot at 5 yards (15')...what you're seeing is variations in grip pressure during the trigger press
If you go with a bomar cut, then get the ed brown versions from brownells, call brownells guns techs and they will tell you exactly what you need.
Since bomar went out of bussiness, a lot of copies have appeared, make sure what ever sight you buy that its top quality and not a cheaper copy, if brownells doesn't carry the brand then it probably doesn't meet their standards. I would only buy either , ed brown , wilson, nighthawk, novak or heine sights for any pistol.
I have even read online where a few STI bomar rear sights had some problems and I'm a die hard sti fan.
Since bomar went out of bussiness, a lot of copies have appeared, make sure what ever sight you buy that its top quality and not a cheaper copy, if brownells doesn't carry the brand then it probably doesn't meet their standards. I would only buy either , ed brown , wilson, nighthawk, novak or heine sights for any pistol.
I have even read online where a few STI bomar rear sights had some problems and I'm a die hard sti fan.
Yeah but I dont think that I have a bomar cut. I hopped over to Bersachat.com and talked to some guys over there who have changed sights on their ACIIs and they said ACII shares same sight cut as Colt.
And that is a good excercice 9mm. But unfortunately they wouldnt make it onto those circles. I tried that with the 1inch stickers yesterday at the range and i was hitting the circle below when aiming at the top one. I wonder how many more range trips it will take until im convinced its the gun and not me.
And that is a good excercice 9mm. But unfortunately they wouldnt make it onto those circles. I tried that with the 1inch stickers yesterday at the range and i was hitting the circle below when aiming at the top one. I wonder how many more range trips it will take until im convinced its the gun and not me.
You don't have to hit the circles. Just set up six 1" stickers, in two rolls of three, on a sheet of paper and shoot one shot at each
The point is to see where each shot falls on a separate target...it's the progression, not the resulting group if all the shots were on one target.
Just curious, which grip are you utilizing?
Where are your thumbs in relation to the bore line, grip?
The point is to see where each shot falls on a separate target...it's the progression, not the resulting group if all the shots were on one target.
Just curious, which grip are you utilizing?
Where are your thumbs in relation to the bore line, grip?
1911's to me are a lttle harder to get a proper thumbs forward grip on after you have been used to shooting other semi's where the safety may not stick out as far. You arent shooting with a thumbs under the safety grip are you, forcing your other thumb into the trigger guard area ? When I grip my 1911 my top thumb doesnt point straight its forward and slightly up with little to no pressure on the side of the gun from my thumbs.
KodiakBeer
member
I'll reiterate what I said on another forum. Spend $15 on a barrel bushing before spending much more on other solutions or filing away at your sights. Or, just borrow a bushing from a friend with a 1911. This cheap little part has more to do with the barrel to slide alignment than anything else. It's much more likely that this little bushing is out of spec than the entire slide.
Let a couple of other people shoot the gun. If it shoots low for all of them then it's a problem with the gun. The first place to look for the problem is the bushing, not the sights which would indicate an out-of-spec slide.
Let a couple of other people shoot the gun. If it shoots low for all of them then it's a problem with the gun. The first place to look for the problem is the bushing, not the sights which would indicate an out-of-spec slide.
You're shooting from a Weaver stance aren't you?
In any case, try straightening out your left wrist more (point the thumb forward) and riding the thumb safety with your right thumb. This last isn't some much for your grip as it is to keep from knocking the safety on in recoil. I would personally discard the extended slide stop, but that's just me
In any case, try straightening out your left wrist more (point the thumb forward) and riding the thumb safety with your right thumb. This last isn't some much for your grip as it is to keep from knocking the safety on in recoil. I would personally discard the extended slide stop, but that's just me
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