My .45 conundrum - Glock 30SF vs. 36 vs. 38

[Kylaen]

Through roughly one and a half years of reading and gathering opinions, I'm very close to nailing my perfect carry gun. But alas, the 36 is not as popular, because many say that it's somehow flawed. I've also read a bit about the 30 slimframe. Many say they like it better. However, I've also read a great deal about kabooms. I'm not worried about reloads because I'd be crazy to try to use them. Those that do...God help you; that's why I'll stick to standard pressure SAAMI spec factory loads. I'm also not concerned about gaining small edges in ballistic performance; it's Glock, it's good enough. But I am worried about having a fully supported barrel, which is a problem that increases kabooms in .40 or bigger diameter ammo...especially in the .40 itself. So these are my observations and information I've gathered on the pros and cons on all three; y'all will have to correct me if I get anything factually wrong. But also please give me your opinion on which would be the most practical to obtain and carry.

Glock 36 Pros:
1. Optimum dimensions for carry without (hopefully) compromising mechanical reliability.
2. Better carry-ability than a regular 30 due to the small grip width.
3. Adequate firepower (c'mon y'all...6+1 is enough for us civvies. If you need more, you were better off running in the first place. Besides, Pearce grips give pinky comfort plus another round.)
4. A Bar-Sto Precision Machine match grade fully supported barrel will minimize the risk of kabooms while increasing barrel accuracy.
5. Proven .45 power, while still being relatively cheap. .45 ACP Remington Golden Saber JHP 230g 25 Round Box is $19.79.

Cons:
1. Apparently questionable mechanical reliability and/or accuracy as reported by the shooting community.
2. Not fully supported barrel for a .45, thus increasing the kaboom risk.
3. A Bar-Sto replacement barrel goes upwards of $100.
4. The .45 ACP +P loads out there still out-edge the .45 GAP, but .45 ACP Hornady +P JHP 230g 20/box is $17.36. Multiply that by 2.5, you get approximately $43.40, slightly more expensive than the .45 GA.P More expensive ammo makes it harder to regularly practice.

Glock 30SF Pros:
1. Optimum dimensions for carry; apparently better popularity and reliability.
2. Better carry-ability than a regular 30 due to the small grip width.
3. More than adequate civvie firepower, great cop firepower too (11+1, I believe.)
4. A Bar-Sto Precision Machine match grade fully supported barrel will minimize the risk of kabooms while increasing barrel accuracy.
5. Proven .45 power, while still being relatively cheap. .45 ACP Remington Golden Saber JHP 230 Grain 25/box is $19.79.

Cons:

1. Admittedly more of a technical gripe, the 30SF is a few millimeters thicker than the 36. May make a small difference in the carry experience.
2. Not fully supported barrel for a .45, thus increasing the kaboom risk.
3. A Bar-Sto replacement barrel goes upwards of $100.
4. The .45 ACP +P loads out there still out-edge the .45 GAP, but .45 ACP Hornady +P JHP 230g 20/box is $17.36. Multiply that by 2.5, you get approximately $43.40, slightly more expensive than the .45 GAP. More expensive ammo makes it harder to regularly practice.

Glock 38 Pros:
1. Adequate dimensions for carry, plus pinky comfort without the need for a Pearce extension, thus cheaper so far.
2. Plus, the 38 has a standard capacity of 8+1, beating the 36 with a Pearce grip.
3. Better carry-ability than a regular 30 due to the small grip width.
4. Slightly longer barrel increasing barrel accuracy, muzzle velocity, and the shooter's intrinsic accuracy.
5. Factory stadard fully supported barrel minimizes risk of .45 kabooms. No need for a replacement barrel, further minimizing aftermarket costs.
6. The .45 GAP cartridge generates slightly higher velocities than standard pressure .45 ACP at the same bullet weights.
7. .45 GAP Winchester JHP 230g 50/box is roughly $30-40. If we multiply the .45 ACP price by two, it's about the same. I was surprised, because I thought the GAP was a super-expensive gimmick round that I ought to avoid. Perhaps not, especially since it's slightly cheaper than the better performing .45 CP +P loads.

Cons:
1. Slightly longer, taller and wider than a 36; more so than the 30SF, although all dimension increases are still under half an inch. probably will impact carry experience.
2. Heavier than the 36 due to an increase in capacity, thus ammo weight.
3. The .45 ACP +P loads out there still out-edge the .45 GAP.

My final thoughts are that while technically, the 38 might be better for me in a few ways, I worry about whether or not my local shop will have similar ammo prices as what I found Googling. Maybe not. My other worry is about the .45 GAP itself. The .45 ACP is legendary, known and trusted the world over. I want to look up specific cartridge design differences between the ACP and the GAP. If it's more prone to feed or extraction failures, that'll royally piss me off. The possible ammo cost increase plus any hinky design specs will be enough to turn me off to the GAP forever. I've already considered it once and I'm giving it another try as I re-evaluat my slowly expanding knowledge of ballistics.

Given all this, what do y'all think?

 

[Kylaen]

I forgot to mention another con for the 30SF; the capacity of 11+1 would make it the heaviest of the three. Small weight difference, but noticeable perhaps?

 

[jmr40]

G-19 or G26. I've never seen a shread of proof that 45 is significantly better than 9mm. The G-30 is a great gun in a great caliber, but the G-19 or G-26 are lighter, slimmer and hold more rounds. A better carry gun. My 45's are all big guns. G-21 and 1911's.

If forced to pick between the 3, I'd vote G-30.

 

[amd6547]

I own a G30, and don't find it difficult to carry at all. I like the 10 round magazines. It is incredably accurate...some say the most accurate of any combat Glock. In my case, I have no problem hitting 10" steel plates at my club that are 40yds out, and it seems to hit where I am aiming at the 100yd berm. It is a pistol which goes from CCW to HD to woods pistol seamlessly. Plus, you have the option of using a 13rd G21 mag.
The SF model is no easier to conceal than the standard G30...it is just a little smaller in circumferance for those who find the G30 grip too thick.
Another point in favor of the G30, is the ability to convert it to 10mm...Plenty of owners do.
The G36 had it's teething pains, but from what I read, those have been fixed, and it has a lot of fans.
The GAP round interests me, particularly in the G39, which is about the size of a G26. I really dont want to get into a pistol that requires reload or order-only ammo.
As to some of your other points...
I am not concerned about kabooms and do not see a bar-sto barrel as a neccessity.
Capacity? 6+1 is probably fine, especially in an auto with a spare mag reload handy. But, 10+1 is better, particularly when you can have a 13rd reload.
I got my G30 used, with a holster and good night sights for a bargain price...there have been more G30's sold than G36's, so the chance of getting a deal on one is better.

 

[flyingdog]

I carry a 36 with a +1 extension on my spare mag. I think 14 rounds of Hornady 200gr XTP is sufficient.

Also, the 36 replaced my all steel Officer size 1911, so I was already used to a lower round count. The weight loss was amazing.

 

[memphisjim]

Check out the kahr pm45

 

[jon86]

Out of these 3 choices, I'd get the glock 36. I used to have the 30, but it was too thick for me to conceal without a huge lump under my clothes. The 30 is a SHOOTER though.

 

[TonyT]

I cannot comment on your other two choices but I have carried one of the first issued Glock-36's in 45ACP. It's a great gun, quite accuarte and controlable. I don't know why you would want an after market barrel - mine shoots very well with plated and jacketed bullets.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

I recently converted to the dark side...

For about 16 years I carried mostly 1911's but I was interested in the Glock 36 from the first time I saw one. Back then they were new, unproven...and had bugs that needed to be worked out (the same as any other new design would). Glock fixed the "bugs" long ago...

About 3 months ago I finally bought one (G36)...and I'm glad I did!

Getting used to the trigger and grip has been interesting, but its not that much of a big deal...nothing a little range time didn't clear up. At first I was consistently shooting high with quick draw "point & shoot" drills (the grip), and consistently shooting left with carefully aimed fire (the trigger).

I have been able to overcome both of these things though...the G36 is an awesomely accurate little pistol (just as accurate as the G30), and a great lil carry pistol.

It has not had any malfunctions of any kind...even with mixed ammo in the mags.

Most of the malfunctions G36 shooters experience these days are shooter or ammo related....don't limp wrist the G36, and don't use weak ammo!

The slide travel is short, it doesn't take much to limp wrist it.

The G36 uses the same recoil spring as the G29 (10mm), use good ammo and it will function.

 

[DawgFvr]

I agre with jmr40: Get a G19 or G26. Glocks and high velocity 9mm just seems to work well. I like the .45 ACP in a larger framed, 5 inch barrel platform like Browning designed it.

Everyone wants a larger, magic bullet but they want to carry it in a tiny platform.

All would work...if your marksmanship is up to par with the platform you use.

 

[amd6547]

Nonsense...the 45acp does fine in the G30-G36.

 

[m2steven]

I'm a moderately new owner of a G36 and it's a really nice shooting pistol. The great thing about the G36 is the absolute power you have in a light package. I have an Evil Roy target with 6" circular head on it. I paste on
a sticky target. Then I fire 1 shot from the G36 at it and the sticky bullseye
simply disappears. The 45 completely cleans it off the metal. A 40 cal won't do it. A 45 LC from my Judge will do it sometimes. But it's a real block breaker. Seems to hit every bit as hard as my full size 1911.

I've never had a failure in 300 rounds or so but i've heard of failures. Seen a few on youtube. I just use plain ball ammo. It's a slow round so it probably won't overpenetrate.

I think the G36 is probably as reliable as most plastic 45's. I trust mine.
I'd also trust a Kahr 45 as well. They are fine pistols.

 

[george d dennis]

g36 never had any problems with mine.

 

[Ledgehammer]

I own a 36 and it's as accurate as my 19 if not more so. It's very controllable one handed and has functioned flawlessly for me. I added a pierce plus zero grip extension and haven't looked back. I love mine. Of course ymmv - how ya doin

 

[DawgFvr]

I am a glock fan...it is my CCW...only in 9mm. Still...when I think of .45 ACP the large/slow camp, I just cannot help but think of a larger platform with 5 inch barrel.

I know, I know...we have high tech bullets with faster burning powders to meet the needs of those who want a large projectle out of a P3AT size weapon...etc., etc., etc.

A wise man stated,

The .45 acp was designed to reach the required velocity of 850 fps for a 230 gr. slug out of a 5" barrel and to be able to cycle the 1911's slide that is of a certain mass. So, powder type and quantity was for that specification. Going to a shorter barrel means the bullet does not have as much time to get up to speed. The difference between velocity loss with a 4" barrel compared to a 5" is less than the amount of loss in a 3" barrel. Being 2" shorter, the 3" barrel loses more than double the loss experienced by the 4" barrel. In other words, the more you move down from the designed norm, the velocity loss is not linear, but curvilinear.

Just my opinion...besides...the new Ruger 1911 is tempting...eh?

 

[Ridgerunner665]

With Hornady TAP 230 grain +P ammo...

The muzzle velocity from my G36 is......850 fps!

 

[Smaug]

Of those, G36 w/Pearce. I think I'd rather have a 19 though, so I could also shoot it comfortably at the range.

Also, try not to show your ignorance of reloading so much in the future.

I shoot a LOT more low pressure reloads than high pressure.

 

[chicharrones]

Kylaen, I wouldn't worry about replacement barrels for a .45 ACP Glocks using factory jacketed ammo. My G36 eats 230 and 200 grain of FMJ or JHP equally well with no failures (yet). I haven't tried 185 grain, so no experience with that in my G36.

I wish there would have been a 30 SF (short frame) around for me to see when I got my 36. I might have went that way instead. I love the magazine flexibility of the 30. The standard 10 round, the shorter 9 round, or the 13 round magazine.

For pure aesthetics I like the 36 better. It's 1" wide slide accentuates the muzzle size compared to the 30. Plus, it has cleaner lines on the dust cover since the frame is equally sized from front to back and has no rail up front.

The grip is weird and thin, but it feels like it locks in my hand when gripped. That seems to make firing the .45 round a relatively easy task considering the light weight of the 36.

I think you should go see how the 30SF and the 36 fit your hand and your carry needs before purchasing. The flexibility of the magazines of the 30SF are greater than what the 36 can do, not counting the Pearce +1 which I have not tried.

If you do get the 36, you may ditch the factory mag bottoms rather quickly. I kept mine on my 36 for a year, just because I was stubborn and didn't care about the fit or pinky pinching. Now that I put on the Pearce +0 mag bottoms on, it is a huge difference in a positive way. It's hard to believe that little bit a plastic makes holding and shooting the 36 so much better.

 

[chicharrones]

A wise man stated,
Quote:
The difference between velocity loss with a 4" barrel compared to a 5" is less than the amount of loss in a 3" barrel. Being 2" shorter, the 3" barrel loses more than double the loss experienced by the 4" barrel.

I guess it's good fortune that the G30 and G36 have 3.78" long barrels.

 

[Kylaen]

For any that question why I want a replacement barrel, I already said why. The barrel is fully supported and it's match grade, ergo it's safer, plus better inherent accuracy. And for the record, I am ignorant about how reloading is done. But I have read that reloaders don't often seperate their already fired brass by "generation", or what I'd guess to mean age. Unless you're super anal about details like me, I'd guess that there are a significant number of reloaders who don't sort their cases by age. Meaning they're using random cases, some relatively new, others fired and re-fired many a time. The brass will weaken, eventually bulge, then your risk of kabooms does increase tenfold. I'm not saying all reloaders do this. I'm saying if you don't stay on top of how many times you've fired a particular casing, you're asking to have your gun explode in your hand. Why not have a better margin of safety? Why not have a better accuracy? I'll take the replacement barrel.

 

[NG VI]

First of all, cops are civilians too, unless they are Military Police, in which case they are Soldiers, Airmen, Seamen, or Marines as the case may be. I have a real problem with the lax semantics of calling police anything other than police. They are not different than anyone else, and the "war on" mentality that has permeated our nation over the last forty or so years has caused immense damage to our young men and women and has unneccessarily harmed our communities and taken massive amounts of finances out of us, between tazes and punitive measures.

Anyway, that little bit aside, far from hearing about questionable accuracy, the Glocks in .45 (all the .45 bore Glocks, ACP and GAP) have a sterling reputation for accuracy. You won't see a practical increase in accuracy is my guess. Maybe if you lead-sledded it, but I bet you won't have one of those in your carry kit. And if you don't reload, why are you worried about the reloading and case tracking practices of others?

Also they aren't going to blow up on you. Guns blow up from faulty ammunition from time to time, it happens, but it sin't all that common, and whatever issues Glock used to have, they have modified their chamber design and have more casehead support than they used to. We're talking the difference between likelihood of being struck by lightning based on which belt buckle you wear on a given day. Maybe a little more, but it's nothing remotely common.

I know, I know...we have high tech bullets with faster burning powders to meet the needs of those who want a large projectle out of a P3AT size weapon...etc., etc., etc.

Don't slower burning powders almost universally produce higher velocities?

It's a slow round so it probably won't overpenetrate.

Typically speed increases expansion which increases drag and reduces sectional density which reduces penetration. Low speed bullets generally speaking penetrate more than fast ones.


There was something else I was going to say, but I've forgotten it now. It was good.

 

[amd6547]

Mas Ayoob has mentioned getting sub-1" groups at 25yds with his Glock 30...using the stock barrel...how much smaller do you think a BarSto will get you?
...And, if you did want to get a different barrel for purposes of shooting lead reloads or imagined safety, there are high quality replacements besides BarSto.
Hickock45 did a couple videos on the G30 on youtube.

 

[outerlimit]

Adequate firepower (c'mon y'all...6+1 is enough for us civvies. If you need more, you were better off running in the first place.

Plenty of robberies go down with several armed perps. And sometimes you can't run for any number of reasons.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

The above is true...

But one has to consider that every person has to carry what fits his/her situation...

6+1 and two spare mags will have to do if I find myself in a "situation" because I feel better carrying a 45, and it has to be a 45 that I can conceal....110% concealed (due to my job)

 

[legion3]

I will be the only GAP mug I guess.

I have all of the above (or had in the case of the 36) .

The 30SF is fat but can be carried.

Never liked the 36, the recoil, the mag pinched me and it just didn't feel comfortable. It carried well and that is important but shooting it left me happy to have the G30.

I prefer the grip and size of the G19 so I eventually, after long thought and wading through the GAP haters, got both the G38 and G39.

By far my favorite overall, all around 45 caliber Glocks.

Ammo is harder to find but can be had on line.

If finding ammo locally is an issue then by all means go with the ACP. I love the feel of the G38 and G39. (the G39 is glocks smallest overall 45 caliber gun and is also 6+1 (or 7+1 with the Glock extension).

And I don't shoot +P 45ACP thus the GAP - Standard ACP is a wash ballistically. Also shooting +P was OK from the G21SF but was less fun from the G30SF and way way less fun from the G36.