My biennial plea for a reputable cap/ball revolver 'smith

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1KPerDay

1KPerDay

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I have 3 italian cap/ball revolvers that I'd like to take shooting. They all are badly out of time, which would appear to be the only issue preventing their use. A Walker, a Paterson and a 3rd model dragoon. I have been told all are Italian of 60s or 70s vintage (all marked GM on the cylinders; the only marks other than the replica colt marks on the barrels; anyone know who made them?)

After the bigiron barrels fiasco (which I luckily missed; I was in the process of getting a quote from them and preparing to send them these revolvers) I'd like to know if there are any reputable 'smiths that can get these pistolas into shooting condition. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

thanks!
 
Have you thought about doing the work yourself? The Paterson might be a challenge but the other two shouldn't be too hard to fix.
 
perhaps for someone smarter than I...


OTOH, I suppose if I make them more out of time it's no big loss. Any tips/info/resources?
 
I would never try to work on a modern gun but I've had pretty good luck working on these (like I said, the Paterson is a different animal, but you're halfway there by spelling it with one T). Between this forum, the Voy forum, and the Firing Line forum, there's plenty of tabletop gunsmiths that are willing to help. Not to mention some great books out there (David Chicoine's GUNSMITHING GUNS OF THE OLD WEST is a good one).
I'd start by posting one question at a time, describing what the gun is or is not doing (ex: cylinder spins too far, not far enough, won't lock in place, etc).
The answers and the fixes are usually fairly simple. You might get differing opinions but they'll all point to the same place.
You can send the gun out and have it worked on (lots of time and money involved) and when you get it back it might be perfect, until the next time you shoot it. Or something might go wrong at the range that needs immediate attention, and by knowing what makes these guns tick, and how to keep them ticking, you can handle it then and there.
 
I'd certainly like to be able to fix them myself.

Are the adjustments needed... possible without new parts? Or are generally new parts required?

I'll take another look and post up the exact problems as you suggest. thanks
 
Hey 1KPerDay!

I fixed my original Colt Police with help from *Tuning_the_Pietta_Part_One* and *Tuning_the_Pietta_Part_Two*. Very great guides, I found them on this site or thefiringline.com. And I have Dave Chicoines book too, it's great. If I could fix my gun, I'm sure anybody can:)

// Daniel
 
Dont be afraid of your local gunsmith. I have a pretty good one near by for me. I had asked him how much to tune up a revolver. Going through all this. The gunsmith pretty much explained what was the process and everything. The cost to tune it up and have it balanced like a clock was 60.00. Which really isnt that bad. When i bought an R&D cylinder for my WALKER i gave my smith the gun and the cylinder. A few days later picked it up. The cylinder did not need much work. But for it was really dialed in. Same thing for me time was of the essence. I had no time to even look at it myself and i needed it done right away so i can take it out. So spending the money was cheap. Same time its really dialed in.
 
I'm in utah, and I don't know of any good gunsmiths around here. The one or two that are somewhat known have a lot of bad word of mouth. I'm a bit leery.

If I could get them running for 60 bucks each I'd be extremely happy.

Hey Daniel... you wanna fix mine? :D
 
What is the Dragoon doing or not doing? That is a pretty basic gun.
I got my Solitude hat on and I'm ready...
 
I would down load and print the two "Tuning_the_Pietta".pdf files. Add a set of good jewelers files, hard stones, hollow ground screw drivers and your a table top gunsmith. The Walker and Dragoon are very basic revolvers, the Paterson is more complicated but doable. It just has more parts.
There are several talented guys here that can walk you down the path.
 
I've been doing most all my own gunsmithing for over 25 years now mostly because I grew up with little $$$ & if it broke I learned how to fix it & my G-Pa taught me.

If you can ive us a description of what is going on we can point you in the general direction for fixing it.

But otherwise a local gunsmith is a good source to start.
 
If you were going to attempt to fix these yourself, what files would you need? Part numbers from brownell's would help. I'm going to put in an order for some other stuff and would like to combine shipping.

I have gunsmithing screwdrivers already, but no files or stones.

thanks!
 
I would not order anything until I knew what I needed. Might be a loose screw, a spent cap, etc jamming the works.
 
Hey 1KPerDay!

No you had better send it to a real gunsmith. Tried mine today and found several things I need to correct. But those pdf's are great. I've used diamond files, and hollow screwdrivers mostly; fairly standard issue in most toolboxes? Most folks have these at home I guess.

// Daniel
 
well I ordered a diamond file and india stone from brownells (along with some cylinder yoke bushings and a Kunhausen shop manual for my S&Ws)... see how much damage I can do. :rolleyes:
 
Pick one of them and state what it does wrong... The cylinder _ _ _ _ ?

1 goes to far?
2 doesn't go far enough?
3 doesn't lock?
4 moves part way and the hammer gets loose?
5 moves part way and the lock bolt pops up to soon?
6 can't be cocked
7 what?

It may or not need a new part(s)

It will need something in tools no matter what.
 
Pick one of them and state what it does wrong... The cylinder _ _ _ _ ?

1 goes to far?
2 doesn't go far enough?
3 doesn't lock?
4 moves part way and the hammer gets loose?
5 moves part way and the lock bolt pops up to soon?
6 can't be cocked
Click to expand...

Hey Mac... how you been? :cool:

Okay... the Walker:
Hammer locks back before the cylinder is fully rotated into position. If I continue to retract the hammer back past its notch, the cylinder rotates into position and locks on 5 of 6 chambers. On that one I have to rotate the cylinder by hand. The hammer also has almost no resistance during the first part of the travel and then gets very hard near the end of travel. the clinder lock bolt (if that's what it's called) seems to function properly on this one.


the Paterson:
Similar to above except the cylinder never rotates fully into position even if I continue to retract the hammer rearward past its notch. If I rotate the cylinder by hand after cocking the hammer, the lock bolt engages properly.

The 3rd Model Dragoon seems to be in the worst shape, at least from what I can guess:
The cylinder latch doesn't lock usually--

The hammer travels well past its notch, and the cylinder rotates past center on each chamber--

Here's a couple of crappy videos I shot to try to show the problems.

th_Capandballcoltsoutoftime001.jpg

th_Capandballcoltsoutoftime002.jpg
 
Dragoon: take the trigger guard off and check to see if the trigger & bolt spring is broken. It looks to me that the bolt is not rising toward the end of the cocking action and the cylinder over travels. If the spring is OK then the bolt is either broken or the cam on the hammer is not engaging the bolt arm to move it up & down while cocking. I'm gonna pass on the other gun's undertravel. I have some ideas but would rather give no info rather than the wrong info. I think the fixes are not going to be all that difficult. Mainly replacing parts. BTW the videos were not "crappy" at all but were very well done.
 
Those were perfect..

The Walker & the Paterson:
The hand is just a tad too short, ordering a new hand "it comes with a new spring attached & is always too long" & stoning the hand to get the proper length will fix those.
Patience but diligence is key to perform this fix, prefitting it to see how far you can cock the hammer till the bolt stops the cylinder "or over rotation" then stoning the top & tip slightly as you go to get it the right length that you need for proper timing.

The Dragoon is more than likely a Trigger/Bolt spring because if the spring was working but bolt's leg was broken then you wouldn't be able to move the cylinder at all.
This is a real easy fix because only minor fitment "stoning" is necessary to have the spring sit right in it's recess.

Question:
Are they originals or well worn copies?
They look good.
 
Those videos are actually pretty good for describing the problem.
First of all, put the Paterson aside for now. The hands, springs, bolts, etc are not at all like those on the other guns. The Paterson will be a challenge.
Also, Uberti and Pietta Patersons have slightly different internals from each other.
As you take the guns apart, take pics of each step, of each part's location, and take note of what it does and why it does it. Refer to a schematic from VTI for info. Look for loose screws and pieces of caps and crap inside the gun. Clean everything off so you can see it better.
Keep in mind that the mainspring on the Walker is different from that of the Dragoon. The Walker mainspring can take out an eye when it's released.
The technical shooters on this forum will be able to guide you step by step.

http://www.vtigunparts.com/store/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=8&cat=Uberti+1847+Walker

http://www.vtigunparts.com/store/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=7&cat=Uberti+3rd+Model+Dragoon
http://www.vtigunparts.com/store/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=20&cat=Uberti+Paterson+Without+LL
 
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