My cast bullets shoot like crap!!

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BUGUDY

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I cast some 124gr LRN from Lee 6 cavity molds. Using 100% lead with tin, appx 40:1. Ran them thru a 4500 lubsizer. I have tried w231 and Unique. Lots and lots of loads, nothing at all accurate @ 7 yds. Could I cast a bad bullet. They look fine, I have shot other cast bullets without problems. Need some help.

Edit: I am shooting a CZ P07.
 
Size to .357" Oven treat/water drop bullets to hardness of 24 BHN. Your alloy will need Antimony added to heat treat. Wheel weights or magnun shot, or linotype contain antimony. Use a good 50/50 bees wax/alox lube. BHNAlloys.gif
 
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It is my cast bullets causing the problems. Inaccurate and tumbling. I just found some 125LRN that I purchased from Missourie Bullet, loaded 4.2 Unique w/ 1.065 col and they shot fine. I am going to check sizing and bullet hardness first. I sized to ..356 which was suggested for a CZ. What is the time and temp on oven treating? And what BHN will likely solve the problem?
 
I don't think that lead will heat treat. If you want harder lead you will need wheel weights. Pure lead & tin has no arsenic and/or antimony and will not harden noticeably. Wheel weights are what you need for that unless you can find some linotype to mix in with your lead.
 
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It is my cast bullets causing the problems. Inaccurate and tumbling. I just found some 125LRN that I purchased from Missourie Bullet, loaded 4.2 Unique w/ 1.065 col and they shot fine. I am going to check sizing and bullet hardness first. I sized to ..356 which was suggested for a CZ. What is the time and temp on oven treating? And what BHN will likely solve the problem?

My CZ Compact slugs .356" and I use wheel weight alloy 124 gr Lee RN bullets sized to .3575", using W231 and it's a very accurate load in the CZ and my STI Trojan and CW9. No leading problems, either (Bullets lubed with LLA).
 
I wonder if sizing is the issue since The Missouri bullets I used that shot well were .356. I cast a .356, maybe it is the low BHN. That said I will size to .3575 from now on. I need to get my bullet harder, wheel weights are very scarce around me; so far!

Edit: I am hoping the heat/water treatment works.
 
Water treatment needs antimony to work.

Get some 95/5 solder and add it to your mix. It should be available locally.


Wheel weights and a tad of 95/5 solder will work like a champ.

40/1 lead/tin is very soft. It would be suited to some things, but not 9MM.

24 BHN is much harder than needed, but you are around 7 or 8 BHN, at most.
 
I use wheel weight lead, sized to .356, no heat treating, lubed with LLA, in my CZ pistols, works great. I have some I will try in the P07 when I get mine, and see if there is any change. I would hazard a guess it's the actual metal content you might be using. Ask over at castboolits.gunloads.com?
 
your alloy is too soft, for one thing. and others here are correct: try sizing to .356"

i've used the same bullet in a 9mm tok; wouldn't feed at all. stopped that in a hurry. also used it in .38 short colt in a police positive. worked fine.
 
When diagnosing cast bullet accuracy problems - 1st: check sizing. 2nd: check hardness. 3rd: check lube.

Most trouble can be traced to the bullets being undersized. Hardness and lube problems typically show up as leading problems in the bore.
 
have you slugged the bore of your barrel? picking a random size does not work. also to harden your bullets, add some magnum shot. that has enough antimony to allow water quench haredening,
 
So how much 95/5 solder or magnum shot to say 10lbs lead? Also what temp for water quenching?
 
Bullet Casting

Water treatment needs antimony to work.
ty Everyone for the reminder, i though of that on my way to the range today. Heat treating from Lyman
Q: Is there anything I can do to make the bullets harder?
A: Cast bullets can be heat treated to increase their hardness providing your alloy has some antimony present. To heat treat your bullets: Cast your bullets in the normal manner, saving several scrap bullets. Size your bullets but do not lubricate them. Place several scrap bullets on a pan in your oven at 450 degrees and increase the temperature until the bullets start to melt or slump. Be sure to use an accurate oven thermometer and a pan that will not be used again for food. Once the bullets start to melt or slump, back off the temperature about 5 to 10 degrees and slide in your first batch of good bullets. Leave these in the oven for a half hour. Remove the bullets from the oven and plunge them into cool water. Allow them to cool thoroughly. When you are ready to lubricate, install a sizing die .001" larger than the one used to initially size them. This will prevent the sides of the bullets from work-softening from contact with the sizing die. Next apply gas checks if required and lubricate. These are now ready for loading. Go to Lymans site, look under FAQ, Bullet casting.
http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/home/ Here is another good link http://www.redding-reloading.com/pages/bulletweights.html Bullet Sizes and Weights-
How to Vary Them

The bullet diameters and weights presented in this list are based on the use of Taracorp’s Lawrence Magnum bullet alloy (2% tin, 6% antimony, 1/4% arsenic, 91.75% lead).

You should be aware that bullet diameters and weights will vary considerably depending on the lead casting alloy used. This variation can be as much as 1/2% on the diameter, and 8% on the weight among the most commonly used casting alloys. For example, a .358-158 grain bullet might show a diameter variation of .002", and a 13 grain difference in weight.

In order to provide a hard bullet, and due to the availability of high antimony content alloys such as scrap wheel weights and type metal, many casters are using high antimony content alloys. SAECO moulds work well with these high antimony content leads, but you should be aware of the variations they may produce.

Of the most commonly used alloys, wheel weights (.5% tin, 4% antimony, 95% lead) will produce bullets having the smallest diameter and heaviest weight, with such bullets running approximately .3% smaller in diameter and 3% heavier than bullets cast with Taracorp's metal. Linotype will produce bullets with the largest diameter and lightest weights. This alloy will produce bullets approximately 1/10% larger and 3% lighter than Taracorp. Other alloys of tin and antimony, with antimony content above 5%, will produce bullets with diameters and weights falling between those cast from wheel weights and linotype.

Alloys containing little or no antimony will cast considerably smaller than wheel weights and in some cases will produce bullets too small for adequate sizing. Within the limitations given above, the weight and diameter of a cast bullet can be adjusted by varying the alloy’s antimony content.

The size and weight of bullets of a given alloy will also vary according to casting temperature. Higher temperatures will result in greater shrinkage as the bullet cools, thereby producing a slightly smaller and lighter bullet than one cast of the same alloy at a lower temperature.




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To make #2 alloy, use 5 1/2 lbs wheel weight, 1lb 50/50 lead/ tin bar solder, 3 1/2 lbs pure lead. If you dont have Wheel Weights, use magnum shot instead.
 
Arsenic, not antimony needed for heat treatment to harden bullets

It isn't the antimony that you need for water quenching or heat treatment to work, rather, it is a trace amount (.25% or more) of arsenic. This is present in wheelweights.

Antimony hardens the alloy in which it is mixed all by itself, having no extra-chemical properties.

Another point is that tin, beyond 2% in the alloy, is not an economical hardening agent, yielding diminishing returns. Up to 2%, tin will harden at the approximate rate of 1 BHN per percentage point, up to the 2. Beyond that, the return fades precipitously and you need antimony and/or arsenic (for water quench or heat treating.)

That said, if anybody wants casting lead, we have plenty for sale. This isn't a big moneymaker for us, but selling the alloy we use helps us keep the volume buys up so that we can pass along the savings to our customers.

FWIW.

Brad
 
Try shooting as cast

My revolvers like a slight over size bullet. I can shoot a .360 bullet down a .357 tube just fine. .358 works better.

As your bullets are tumbling, I suspect there undersize for your barrel. I had a .452 acp mold that spit out .450 bullets that acted like yours do.

Load some up as cast, use some johnson past wax or other carnuba based wax for lube, they will smoke, try this first before buying anything else. Make sure the unsized bullet and cartridge will chamber in your weapon.
If they shoot fine, then go buy some Lee liquid Alox tumble lube or Rooster Bullet Jacket.
 
Fixing 9mm bullet problem

I have been a commercial reloader/cast bullet maker for 35 yrs. My 9mm bullets even work in Glocks, and HKs. First the alloy 89% lead, 3.2% antimony,
7.7% tin, .1% arnsenic. Size them to .3565. use a mold that drops a bullet with a wide bottom band. Seat to same oal as win factory 9mm fmj. I cant draw it here. Look on Gunbroker, most there have the right shape. Try Missouri Bullet Co auctions. I load 4.3 gr of Win 231, and it works everything even my Sten, Uzi, and MAC11 full auto. Out of my Taurus I can keep all rounds in the black of a 25yd pistol target at 75 yds.
 
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