My ccw ammo am I missing anything

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qwert65

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Hi, I'm a very busy professional who lives/works in bad areas sometimes, I cc a 1911 5", j-frame and LCP depending on circumstances. My question is about my ammo choices I don't shoot a lot (its depending on schedule) and these seem to work(having not had to use them in self defense) is there anything out there clearly better?

380- buffalo bore fmj flat point 95gr/ 975fps

38spl- Winchester 130 gr fmj +P

45- any of these(they all shoot well) American Eagle 230gr FMJ, Wolf 230gr FMJ, Black Hills 230gr FMJ Hollow Point

Thanks
 
Non expanding solid bullets be they FMJ or lead, round nose or flat point are the poorest choice for self defense. They do work and you can get by with them but they're not as good as any HP in stopping an assailant. The best ammunition you can load is what has gone through extensive testing for law enforcement use. Ammunition companies sell similar ammo to both law enforcement and civilians as self defense ammo. Some of the heavy loads in +P and +P+ are restricted for sale to Law enforcement but they can be had by civilians when they become available through surplus stock.

Since one only lives once I and most others select the best ammunition type available to defend our lives.
 
Just did a move to a new state and did a CCW class last week, instructor and the NRA only advises to use only factory ammo hollow points and that is sold and marketed as police and self defense ammo on the packaging or in advertising literature.

I used to carry FMJ ammo in all my autos, but the new school of thought is that while FMJ might be fine in a criminal case, you would lose hands down in civil lawsuit for using fmj or target, hunting or handloads.

Basically these cases have already been tested in courts, by shooting victims, sueing the local cops that shot them, so most CCW instructors, will tell you to carry the same type of ammunition as your local, city or state cops carry.
 
Just did a move to a new state and did a CCW class last week, instructor and the NRA only advises to use only factory ammo hollow points and that is sold and marketed as police and self defense ammo on the packaging or in advertising literature.

I used to carry FMJ ammo in all my autos, but the new school of thought is that while FMJ might be fine in a criminal case, you would lose hands down in civil lawsuit for using fmj or target, hunting or handloads.

Basically these cases have already been tested in courts, by shooting victims, sueing the local cops that shot them, so most CCW instructors, will tell you to carry the same type of ammunition as your local, city or state cops carry.
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Sounds like good advice. How can one find out what they use use? What if they carry a caliber different than yours?
 
Basically you would have to write a letter to the chief of police in your local city or the head of the state police, sherrifs etc. This information would have to be released under the freedom of information act.

As for caliber differences, as long as you are not shooting a caliber more powerfull then the local cops it shouldn't be an issue.

From what I was told by the CCW instructer, by using loads only designed for personal defense, it helps in your criminal or civil defense to show that you only shot the attacker to stop the attack, in defense of your immediate physical harm to you or your family.

Also it shows that the ammo you used was not designed to over penentrate and when you had to use the gun, the ammo you used did not endanger innocent bystanders or neighbors in other rooms or adjacent homes.

You could also just ask some local cops, as long as you don't look like a nut or a dirt bag, most cops will be happy to tell you what you want to know or ask the local gun stores and ask what the cops buy for duty and off duty defense.
 
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Looks like I might try to find some critical defense what size are the 45s 230gr?
 
Some people say that the Buff Bore FPs are the ticket in .380, on the theory that a .380 that expands won't penetrate adequately. Although I own a .380, I don't carry it, because I view the caliber as marginal. If I were to carry it, I think I could see the Buff Bore FP argument.

For any caliber 9mm or above, I would use a good quality JHP. No problems with your revolver, and if your 1911 will feed JHPs, why not take advantage of that fact? If it doesn't expand, it's as good as an FMJ; if it expands, it's much better. There is no downside except for cost, and my life is worth it. :)

I'm not aware of any LEA that uses anything but JHPs, and there is a reason for that.
 
How can one find out what they use use?
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Ask a cop if you really feel the need to know exactly what the locals around you are using, it's not like its a big state secret.

Either that or just use one of the major LE brands, Winchester Ranger Talon, Federal HST, Speer Gold Dot, Remington Golden Saber. If you want to carry LEO ammo those should cover you fine.
 
As for covering yourself legally, they could spin it either way. If you carry "LE ONLY" ammo, you can say you were being responsible enough to use the best ammo you could, but the prosecution/plaintiff attorney would spin it as "you were trying to be a cop, you WANTED to shoot someone." I don't think it makes any difference.

I think the real world difference may be limited, but you want all the advantages you can get. I carry 230 gr HSTs. They consistently expand to the size of a quarter.
 
Not really in the court of law you can easily twist it back in your defense, by simply showing that the police ammunition is used to stop the attacker, and safe guard the public and innocent bystanders. So if the its the police departments duty to protect and safe guard the general public, then it is correct to assume that the ammunition they use is the best and safest for personal and home defense.
 
I would not recommend ammo that is marked for LEO only , I stated to use only ammo that is sold for police and personal defense.
 
I'll probably be flamed for this or yelled at for suggesting hard to find ammo but .....

.380 ACP - I think Hornady Critical Defense is fine, mostly because it's hard to find good .380 HP anyways

.38 spl - I was always under the impression that Remington LHPs were some of the best. If not I would recommend Corbon DPX

.45 ACP - Federal HST or Winchester Ranger T or SXT.
 
I would not recommend ammo that is marked for LEO only
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Do you know the difference between LEO ammunition and the non LEO version? LEO $25 to $30 for a box of 50, non LEO $25 to $30 for 20 rounds.
 
Since you said you don't shoot much I'll add this advice. Make the time to shoot more because shot placement is much more important than the ammo you use. There are a lot of very good ammo out there these days including Speer Gold Dot and Hornady Critical Defense. I'm a little old fashioned and use older designs like 145gr Winchester Sliverrtip ammo in my .357 Magnum, Remington Golden Saber in my .45 Auto and "The FBI Load" in my .38 Special.
 
I'd say you're doing okay with the Buffalo Bore .380acp 95gr. flat point +P since you obviously are aware penetration is an issue with this round, but for .38spl I'd probably use a 158gr. jhp +P or the Ranger 130gr. jhp +P, especially the Ranger in a j-frame.

ArchAngelCD said:
There are a lot of very good ammo out there these days including Speer Gold Dot and Hornady Critical Defense. I'm a little old fashioned and use older designs like 145gr Winchester Sliverrtip ammo in my .357 Magnum, Remington Golden Saber in my .45 Auto and "The FBI Load" in my .38 Special.
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Yup, there's nothing wrong with those rounds, they'll certainly do the job!

Because of the OAL and HP design the Golden Saber has a reputation for feeding well in 1911's that are normally finicky with jhp. Though I think that's an overstated problem, most older 1911's that I've seen digest jhp ammo just fine, so long as the AOL is not too short. The Golden Sabers are just a good general load all around and I'd feel fine with them in any .45acp.
 
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Thx all just one more question are theblackhills hp that i have ok enough ie how much more do the gold dots federal, and winchester open more?
 
qwert65 said:
Hi, I'm a very busy proffessional who lives/works in bad areas sometimes, I cc a 1911 5", j-frame and lcp depending on circumstances. My question is about my ammo choices I don't shoot a lot (its depending on schedule) and these seem to work(having not had to use them in self defense) is there anything out there clearly better?

380- buffalo bore fmj flat point 95gr/ 975fps

38spl- Winchester 130 gr fmj +P

45- any of these(they all shoot well) American Eagle 230gr FMJ, Wolf 230gr FMJ, Black Hills 230gr FMJ Hollow Point

Thanks
Click to expand...
I bought two boxes of .45 Winchester 'Supreme Elite' 230gr JHPs from local Walmart. I shot two magazines worth and found to be accurate and reliable ammo.
 
"My ccw ammo am I missing anything
Hi, I'm a very busy proffessional who lives/works in bad areas sometimes, I cc a 1911 5", j-frame and lcp depending on circumstances. My question is about my ammo choices I don't shoot a lot (its depending on schedule) and these seem to work(having not had to use them in self defense) is there anything out there clearly better?

380- buffalo bore fmj flat point 95gr/ 975fps

38spl- Winchester 130 gr fmj +P

45- any of these(they all shoot well) American Eagle 230gr FMJ, Wolf 230gr FMJ, Black Hills 230gr FMJ Hollow Point

Thanks "

I like your choices for protecting yourself. I find .38/.380 in the same box:
needing adequate penetration, and, our current HP's can't be heavy enough to penetrate adequately.

45 Ball penetrates like crazy. I can remember a 45 Ball round going so slow I could see it, but, it still went through a 12" tree, and kept going. On the otherhand, the 45 HP's I've used seem to work TOO well, opening up, and penetrating a bit less then 14" in gello, which, if I have my choice, I would pick something that goes about the same as the FBI recommends: 18".

I'm not familiar with the Black Hills 230 FMJ HP.

By the way, for every 'expert' there is another 'expert' that will have an opposing point of view. I find arguing about this kind of stuff questionable, since your chances of every having to use your gun are slim.

If you are really going into danger, I'd invest in a decent bullet proof vest.
Most shootings happen before you know what's happened, and your shot before you know what's going on.

Shooting first generally wins a gun battle.
 
Steve C said:
Non expanding solid bullets be they FMJ or lead, round nose or flat point are the poorest choice for self defense. They do work and you can get by with them but they're not as good as any HP in stopping an assailant. The best ammunition you can load is what has gone through extensive testing for law enforcement use. Ammunition companies sell similar ammo to both law enforcement and civilians as self defense ammo. Some of the heavy loads in +P and +P+ are restricted for sale to Law enforcement but they can be had by civilians when they become available through surplus stock.

Since one only lives once I and most others select the best ammunition type available to defend our lives.
Click to expand...
My first 'lesson' with regards to 'stopping power' came in the Spring of 1982. I was tasked with shooting on of my grandmother's roosters so she could make chicken and dumplings. I had recently begun handgun hunting with a .22, so it seemed natural to want to use my grandfather's S&W M36 for the chore at hand. The only ammunition readily avaialble was the then standard 158 gr. RNL bullet. So....I loaded up the little M36, got within about 10 FEET of a large rooster (she had 7 at the time), cocked the hammer, centered the sights on its chest and fired....only to have the big rooster (MAYBE a whopping 7-8 pounds live weight) RUN OFF showing NO evidence of having been hit! Imagine my surprise. I found it about 30 minutes later, dead. Upon skinning it I had difficulty finding the entrance wound. It was placed exactly dead center in the bird's chest. A very slightly larger exit would was just left of its spine. So much for the 'mighty .38'. Of course, I know better, now.

With regards to your .38 SPL ammo: I'd prefer 148 gr. wadcutters to the 130gr. +P ammo from ANY .38 SPL handgun.
 
I would NEVER use FMJs if I could use hollowpoints of some sort.

For the .38 Special/.357, I use Federal .38 Special 158gr. LSWC-HP +P (FBI load).
For the .45acp, I use Hornady 200gr. TAP JHPs.
 
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