My Christmas gun nightmare

[SaintofKillers]

I purchased a Savage shotgun for my father in law for a gift this year. He lives in Illinois, I live in Indiana.

Here is where the nightmare ensues.

Gunshop A tells me that I can just give him the firearm with no paperwork. WRONG!!!!

Gunshop B ( in Illinois) tells me that if I bring the gun in they can do the transfer right there. Drive to Illinois, Gunshop B then informs me that they cannot do the transfer it has to go thru a FFL from Indiana to Illinois. He explained he did not know this when I called because he had not spoken to ATF. He also then explained it was the shops policy NOT to do transfers from individuals.

Gunshop C none of the counter guys know how to do this said that I need to speak to the manager who was not there at the time.

Gunshop D tells me that they can do it "they think" but also not sure how to go about doing so.

Back to gunshop A where another person tells me via telephone that they can do the transfer to gunshop B they just need gunshop Bs FFL number.

Call gunshop B. Gunshop B tells me that the managers were discussing my situation and said that they think the ATF is wrong and that I should call ATF, Illinois state PD and Indiana state PD and find out how to do it legally.

Uh No. I can only imagine the 37 different opinions I will get from those agencies since all the laws are differnent from state to state.

I have finally given up and just bought him a gift card to gunshop A and let him go get the shotgun himself and I will be keeping the original one that I had purchased.

I CANNOT BELIEVE that this is such a hassle. Who in their right mind would want to even be an FFL. The laws are so many and so confusing that noone can figure out exactly how to interpret them so it seems.

 

[The Deer Hunter]

So basically you want to give your dad a shotgun but the gun stores said you can't?

 

[isuace]

I don't see why this was so hard. As long as he was legally allowed to own it in Illinois, drop it off at an FFL in Indiana to ship to an FFL in Illinois. They shouldn't care whether you sold it to him or gave it to him, it's just their job to do an interstate transfer.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

What a mess.

 

[CoRoMo]

I CANNOT BELIEVE that this is such a hassle. Who in their right mind would want to even be an FFL. The laws are so many and so confusing that noone can figure out exactly how to interpret them so it seems.

Gentlemen... behold the OP.
This is the success of anti-2A regulations playing out before our eyes.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Hmmm, I'm sorry to hear of your troubles. But why couldn't you just buy it for yourself, and then give it as a gift, just owning it yourself for a few days in the interim? Are you afraid that that would be an illegal straw purchase, or what?

 

[john1911]

Gunshop A tells me that I can just give him the firearm with no paperwork. WRONG!!!!

Why are they wrong?

But why couldn't you just buy it for yourself, and then give it as a gift, just owning it yourself for a few days in the interim?

Why not do this?

Copy down his FOID # (plan on keeping it for 10 years iirc) and observe the 24 hour "cooling off" period. Should be gtg.

 

[bobinfl]

ATF Rules

I copied this from the ATF site:

B. UNLICENSED PERSONS
(B1) To whom may an unlicensed
person transfer firearms under the
GCA?
A person may sell a firearm to an
unlicensed resident of his State, if he
does not know or have reasonable
cause to believe the person is prohibited
from receiving or possessing
firearms under Federal law. A person
may loan or rent a firearm to a resident
of any State for temporary use
for lawful sporting purposes, if he
does not know or have reasonable
cause to believe the person is prohibited
from receiving or possessing
firearms under Federal law. A person
may sell or transfer a firearm to a
licensee in any State. However, a
firearm other than a curio or relic may
not be transferred interstate to a licensed
collector.
[18 U.S.C 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27
CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
(B2) From whom may an unlicensed
person acquire a firearm
under the GCA?
A person may only acquire a firearm
within the person’s own State,
except that he or she may purchase
or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun,
in person, at a licensee's premises
in any State, provided the sale
complies with State laws applicable in
177
the State of sale and the State where
the purchaser resides. A person may
borrow or rent a firearm in any State
for temporary use for lawful sporting
purposes.
[18 U.S.C 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27
CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
(B3) May an unlicensed person
obtain a firearm from an out-of-
State source if the person arranges
to obtain the firearm through a
licensed dealer in the purchaser’s
own State?
A person not licensed under the
GCA and not prohibited from acquiring
firearms may purchase a firearm
from an out-of-State source and obtain
the firearm if an arrangement is
made with a licensed dealer in the
purchaser's State of residence for the
purchaser to obtain the firearm from
the dealer.
[18 U.S.C 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)]

You have to go through a licensed dealer because you are in different states. If you were in the same state you could do a simple FTF transfer.

Hope this helps.

 

[SaintofKillers]

Dont know how to quote on this forum so....

Cannot transfer a firearm across state lines legally. ATF rules.

I actually spoke to another FFL today and he told me that he would not ship a firearm to Illinois for anyone for any reason.

I think Illinois laws may be scaring some gun dealers in not wanting to do the transfer. They may be overreacting I dont know.

Called Cabelas they said they would do it for a fee no problem. Called their Illinois store and they have the Savage model I wanted to give him. So I am giving him a gift card for the cost of the gun and he can go get it himself. Saves us both some aggravation, money and some legal red tape.

I am keeping the one that I had already bought. An extra Christmas present to me.

 

[franconialocal]

Indiana to New Hampshire

When I went out to South Bend Indiana last year my uncle bought me a nice little revolver. The dealer just boxed it up, shipped it to my local shop under eachothers FFL stipulations, I paid the $30.00 "transfer fee" that my shop has, and presto.....all legal and ready to go!

 

[MT GUNNY]

This is exactly why the laws were put in place , To confuse everyone into not Buying.

 

[MilsurpShooter]

I went through something similar once. I've purchased roughly 3 firearms as gifts. That consisted of "Merry Christmas" Now take this card with this money and go buy that rifle you wanted

 

[ssjones]

I live in MD, my brother in PA. He was considering giving me an extra revolver he owned. I called the Legislative Liasion for the Maryland State Police and asked him how that could be done (wife works with this fellow). He told me to get a letter from my brother stating he was giving me the gun. Than, take it to my local State Police HQ and they would register it in my name, no questions asked. Given all the BS that MD gun owners live with, I was surprised to hear this. I ended up buying a revolver here so didn't get to test this out.

 

[seale]

Interstate transport of a long gun is legal. Interstate sale of a long gun is legal. Just take the thing to him. Sheesh. This is one of those times where asking permission creates a nightmare because of the ultra complex laws and all the damn grey areas and all the interpretations. I don't think you're breaking any law by just taking it to him. If he has that stupid illinios FOID card then once he is in possession of the gun, everybody is in the clear.

Cannot transfer a firearm across state lines legally. ATF rules.

That is so not true.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Gunshop A tells me that I can just give him the firearm with no paperwork. WRONG!!!!

Regarding federal law, they are correct. Illinois may have laws against it, but federal law does not prohibit private interstate transfers of long guns; only handguns.

 

[Tom488]

Interstate sale of a long gun is legal. Just take the thing to him.

100% incorrect. Go directly to federal prison.

18 USC sec. 922(a)(5) says that it is unlawful for any person, other than a licensed person [meaning FFL], to transfer a firearm to another who does not reside in the same state as the transferor.

 

[distra]

This is done all the time with Gunbroker purchases. You have already purchased the shotgun in IN legally. Get your fathers favorite gun shop in IL to fax their FFL to your favorite gun shop in IN. Have your favorite IN gun shop ship it to your father's favorite in IL. You will both pay transfer fees, but this is the legal way to do the transaction. You can also send the shotgun yourself directly to your father's favorite gun shop if they will take transfers from a non-FFL. Long gun is not as big of an issue, but DO NOT take it directly to him. Bottom line, you did right with the gift card. Much easier that way.

 

[ralphb72]

won in the long run

Sounds like a big hassle but it also sounds like a win win situation in the long run. You got a new shotgun and so did your FIL!