My Encounter with the Colorado State Patrol

[Enco]

why the hell

Why the hell would you give him your ccw licenses or whatever if he didn't ask for it.?
JMHO

Bob

 

[NavyLCDR]

I'm not aware of a test case that challenged charging/conviction based on possession of a stolen handgun determined by running the serial number after it was given to an LEO during a traffic stop . . . but I'm pretty sure that would be a losing proposition for the accused. Serial numbers are in plain view on a weapon -- and attempts to obscure them would justify the reasonable suspicion that that something criminal involving the gun were going on (even if the obscuration did not rise to the level of criminally trying to obliterate/remove it).

Might be a good one to see, and may go a ways on appeal, maybe even SCOTUS, but regardless of the hypotheticals lawfully surrendered firearms have their serial numbers run all over this country every day during traffic stops. That's discretion of the officer(s) involved, and not everyone does it, but it does happen -- and, as I say, I'm not aware of any case law that prohibits it even if they gun was obtained under a legal obligation to inform and surrender the weapon.

You are right, there has not been a court case yet, but I would sure like to see one. On most firearms, the serial number is not in plain sight when the firearm is holstered or stored. During a Terry stop or a traffic stop the police are only allowed to lawfully conduct searches without consent when they believe the subject is armed and dangerous AND that search MUST be limited to the Terry frisk of the outside of the clothing and the immediate area in a vehicle from which a firearm can readily be obtained "FOR OFFICER SAFETY".

If a weapon is discovered, the officer has the right to disarm the subject and seize the weapon for the duration of the stop only "FOR OFFICER SAFETY". The courts have ruled that searches without warrant can only be conducted when the officer's MUST do so for the protection of evidence of a crime FOR WHICH THE STOP OR ARREST WAS ORIGINALLY MADE.

For example: speeding. The subject shows his CPL and tells the officer he possess a firearm. There is not a court yet that has separated the two elements of armed and dangerous. This gives police the ability to perform a Terry frisk of the individual and to search the vehicle in the immediate area from which the firearm may be obtained "FOR OFFICER SAFETY." During the traffic stop for speeding the officers have no lawful reason to search the trunk of the vehicle, without consent, because there is no possible way they could obtain evidence of the infraction of speeding from anything they may find in the trunk.

Likewise, when the gun was holstered or stored, the serial number was NOT in plain sight. It only came into plain sight when the gun was seized under the Terry rules "FOR OFFICER SAFETY." Checking the serial number of the gun has nothing to do with OFFICER SAFETY, and can lead to no further evidence of whatever the reason was for the traffic stop: speeding, running a stop sign, burned out lights. Therefore, if it went to court, I do not see how running the serial number could even remotely be upheld on the basis that the serial number came into plain sight only because of a seizure of the firearm FOR OFFICER SAFETY only.

Unfortunately, I cannot be the test case because on the gun I carry the dang serial number is in white letters on the back strap, plainly visible when the gun is holstered :-<

Why the hell would you give him your ccw licenses or whatever if he didn't ask for it.?
JMHO

Bob

Oh boy... here we go..... While I completely agree with you Bob.... still.... oh boy, here we go....

 

[HorseSoldier]

Likewise, when the gun was holstered or stored, the serial number was NOT in plain sight.

That would be the crux of the debate, I think. And agree a test case would be interesting to see.

 

[Black Knight]

HorseSoldier: The serial numbers on a gun are not always in plain view. I have several S&W revolvers that the factory target grips or after market grips cover the serial number. The other serial number location is under the the cylinder crane also hidden from plain view (by the manufacturer). The only ways to see the serial numbers are to open the cylinder or take off the grips.

 

[makarovnik]

Since I've got my CPL, I have been followed but not pulled over, go figure.