My fellow law student sues the University of Idaho to have guns in student housing.
- Thread starter longdayjake
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longdayjake
Member
There is no punishment for a non-student to carry on campus. It isn't against the law. However, if you get asked to leave you must or you may be guilty of trespassing.
OP
OP
longdayjake
Member
Trust me, you can legally carry on campus. It is only against policy. If you get arrested for carrying on campus and put in jail, you have a great suit on your hands. Once again, it is not against the law and a cop would be in more trouble than you would be if he arrested you for it.
I did my senior paper on CCW on campus at ISU and I am now a law student at UI. Furthermore, I have law enforcement experience. I have done my research on this one.
Anything that results in MORE freedom is good, and this would be great. I have never understood why students (of any age) lose their natural instinctual right to defend themselves by simply walking onto a school campus. I didn't understand it in kindergarten (when the bullies wanted my lunch), elementary, middle, high school (when the farm boys wanted to try out the new city kid), and I certainly don't understand it on a college where anyone can walk on with zero scrutiny.
Dr_B
member
The campus newspaper published an article today that was "pro-concealed carry on campus." Honestly, I was surprised to find something like that in the campus paper.
Dr_B
member
Apparently, the Boise Chief of Police is against campus carry (http://www.cityofboise.org/Departments/Police/NewsReleasesDailyArrests/2011/page63280.aspx). Seems they have decided we do not have a need for self-defense in those areas because crime is low. They want to make a decision for us that will affect our personal safety, even though the state constitution specifically states the right to bear arms is an individual right. And by the Chief's logic, there are police - so I do not need a gun; and there are firemen - so I do not need a fire extinguisher in my home.
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
March 10, 2011
03-10-11 House Bill 222; BPD legislative testimony
March 10, 2011 - The Idaho House State Affairs Committee voted this morning to introduce HB 222, which would allow people with a concealed weapons permit to carry firearms on college and university campuses in the state. The bill would allow public colleges and universities to regulate firearms only in undergraduate dormitories. The committee voted 11-8 to pass the bill to the full House.
As the Campus Police for Boise State University, Chief of Police Michael Masterson and Lt. Tony Plott of the BPD BSU unit testified against the bill.
Idahoans with opinions on this proposed legislation are encouraged to contact their state lawmakers. Click here to learn how to contact your state lawmaker.
Testimony of Lt. Tony Plott, given to the House State Affairs Committee Wednesday, March 9, 2011:
Good morning, Thank you for the opportunity to provide input into senate or house bill number 222.
My name is Tony Plott. I am a life long Idahoan and second generation law enforcement officer having worked for the City of Boise for nearly 25 years where I hold the rank of Lieutenant. My father was an ISP trooper and retired as the director of the Idaho POST academy.
I am an outdoorsman and gun owner and life time member of the National Rifle Association.
I attended college at Boise State and played football in the early 80’s.
I am the father of three college age daughters.
As you can see, I represent many interests concerning this issue, but am here today to speak on behalf of the Boise Police Department.
Our mission is to serve, protect and lead this community to a safer tomorrow.
The Boise Police Department – as you may know – serves many communities, including Boise neighborhoods, the Boise Airport, and the campus of Boise State University.
I was assigned to Boise State University as the Police program manager one year ago and work closely with Boise State Security Director Jon Uda, a retired FBI agent.
The Boise Police Department has a very positive and productive working relationship with the Boise State campus community. The campus enjoys an atmosphere that fosters learning, exploration and the expression of new ideas. The campus also enjoys an extremely low crime rate, especially in the area of violent crime.
The Boise Police Department does not support the carrying of concealed firearms on the campus. Our stand on this issue is the same as the vast majority of other university police departments… particularly those in the eleven states now considering similar legislation… that concealed firearms aren’t necessary on a college campus and this legislation is a sweeping reaction to a problem that fortunately is still extremely rare in our society. The FACTS continue to show that our college campuses are significantly safer places than where we work, shop or even live.
Policing a college campus is a specialty assignment. We deal almost exclusively with young adults… many of whom are living away from home for the first time.
We know our young people – the age group between 17 and 24 are just learning the responsibilities of adulthood and of society’s expectations of adult behavior.
This will not be news to the parents in the room but as our young people learn, conduct that most adults feel is risky, young adults feel is fun. Our young adults take risks and often learn hard life lessons in everything from finances to alcohol and sometimes drugs.
We know we as a society have issues with young people and alcohol abuse. College age young people are involved in more alcohol and drug related incidents, including accidents, assaults, sexual assaults and motor vehicle crashes.
And alcohol is a factor in two of the largest causes of death in young adults… homicide and suicide.
As a campus police agency, we feel strongly adding weapons to this mix will mean our college students are LESS safe.
Adding weapons to a college campus have the potential to increase the consequences of a young person’s actions, jeopardizing their safety and their future.
As a professional police department that polices the campus and the surrounding community, the Boise Police Department has armed officers assigned and dedicated to the campus with the tools and training to intervene in the event of a deadly force assault on or near campus.
We know from experience that a citizen with some training and a firearm may do more harm than good in the event of a true emergency, by causing confusion and slowing down the police response.
It takes a lot of diligence for a person carrying a concealed firearm to avoid accidental or negligent exposure of the weapon… to avoid negligent handling that might result in theft, an accidental discharge or discovery of the weapon by an innocent bystander… or to avoid carrying the weapon into a place where drugs or alcohol are being used.
THIS IS IMPORTANT……
…Because college campuses deal largely with young people 17 to 25 with varying degrees of life experience and maturity
… because many students live in rental or transitional housing that lack secure facilities designed to store, handle, or load and unload firearms
… Because these young people are often under new and unique stresses including relationships, grades and finances
…because a college campus often encourages dialogue on controversial issues that are racial, environmental and political that evoke not only thought but emotion
… and because college campuses are commonly visited by children and families as part of camps, field trips or community events…
Again, we do not believe a college campus is the appropriate community for citizens to carry concealed firearms.
We strongly recommend the University be allowed to restrict weapons on campus in the interest of public safety.
###
Testimony of Boise Chief of Police Michael Masterson, presented to the House State Affairs Committee Thursday, March 10, 2011:
Mr. Chairman and Committee members,
I don’t wish to repeat testimony already provided by Lt. Plott at yesterday’s hearing. You are well aware of the Boise Police Department’s position opposing House Bill 222.
I am here to clarify misrepresentations or perceptions offered yesterday regarding crime statistics representing the City of Boise and Boise State University.
A wise sage once said, “Statistics are numbers looking for an argument.” I’d like to put those crime numbers into perspective by facts:
The crime mapping feature you saw yesterday is a service all Ada County law enforcement agencies provide that we believe necessary to share with the people we serve. It does not mean crime is rampant in our city. In fact, the city of Boise – including our University – is consistently ranked as one of the safest cities in our nation. The symbols you saw posted represented assault battery/sexual assault and burglary/robbery. Here are a few more details you should know about those numbers:
Aggravated assault/battery – 90% occurred in a home, business, bar or restaurant and 97.6% the victim knew the assailant.
Robbery totals – out of 9 this year – 7 the victim knew the suspect.
In the area of sex assault, the numbers are comparable. There is a strong victim/suspect relationship and these cases generally occurring in a house or apartment.
The Campus safety study and the grading system you heard and saw is misleading at best. I ask you to compare apples to apples and consider just campus boundaries. We urge you to look at campus specific stats alone and not the fifteen block vicinity shown yesterday to illustrate a campus problem that doesn’t exist. Some colleges and universities are situated in urban areas and some are in rural areas making the variables considerable different. Here’s the breakdown on five of the major part one crimes reported to police in the past three years.
2008 2009 2010
Murder 0 0 0
Rape 0 1 0
Robbery 0 0 0
Aggravated Assault 2 1 0
Burglary 3 2 0
Official statistics provided by Mary Anderson, BPD Crime Analysis Supervisor
The other area I’d like to comment on is police response to active shooters whether they occur at a school, university, capitol, a bar or whatever. I don’t want to disclose specific police tactics in handling the critical events, but do want to reassure you and our citizens that it is a standard practice today in the policing profession around the county to take immediate decisive action to end the threat of an active shooter. There are no huddles, no votes, no waiting. (This comment being made in response to comment the U of I counselor made yesterday in testimony)
We believe the current law is reasonable and the proposed change offers a solution to problem that doesn’t exist.
Thank you.
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
March 10, 2011
03-10-11 House Bill 222; BPD legislative testimony
March 10, 2011 - The Idaho House State Affairs Committee voted this morning to introduce HB 222, which would allow people with a concealed weapons permit to carry firearms on college and university campuses in the state. The bill would allow public colleges and universities to regulate firearms only in undergraduate dormitories. The committee voted 11-8 to pass the bill to the full House.
As the Campus Police for Boise State University, Chief of Police Michael Masterson and Lt. Tony Plott of the BPD BSU unit testified against the bill.
Idahoans with opinions on this proposed legislation are encouraged to contact their state lawmakers. Click here to learn how to contact your state lawmaker.
Testimony of Lt. Tony Plott, given to the House State Affairs Committee Wednesday, March 9, 2011:
Good morning, Thank you for the opportunity to provide input into senate or house bill number 222.
My name is Tony Plott. I am a life long Idahoan and second generation law enforcement officer having worked for the City of Boise for nearly 25 years where I hold the rank of Lieutenant. My father was an ISP trooper and retired as the director of the Idaho POST academy.
I am an outdoorsman and gun owner and life time member of the National Rifle Association.
I attended college at Boise State and played football in the early 80’s.
I am the father of three college age daughters.
As you can see, I represent many interests concerning this issue, but am here today to speak on behalf of the Boise Police Department.
Our mission is to serve, protect and lead this community to a safer tomorrow.
The Boise Police Department – as you may know – serves many communities, including Boise neighborhoods, the Boise Airport, and the campus of Boise State University.
I was assigned to Boise State University as the Police program manager one year ago and work closely with Boise State Security Director Jon Uda, a retired FBI agent.
The Boise Police Department has a very positive and productive working relationship with the Boise State campus community. The campus enjoys an atmosphere that fosters learning, exploration and the expression of new ideas. The campus also enjoys an extremely low crime rate, especially in the area of violent crime.
The Boise Police Department does not support the carrying of concealed firearms on the campus. Our stand on this issue is the same as the vast majority of other university police departments… particularly those in the eleven states now considering similar legislation… that concealed firearms aren’t necessary on a college campus and this legislation is a sweeping reaction to a problem that fortunately is still extremely rare in our society. The FACTS continue to show that our college campuses are significantly safer places than where we work, shop or even live.
Policing a college campus is a specialty assignment. We deal almost exclusively with young adults… many of whom are living away from home for the first time.
We know our young people – the age group between 17 and 24 are just learning the responsibilities of adulthood and of society’s expectations of adult behavior.
This will not be news to the parents in the room but as our young people learn, conduct that most adults feel is risky, young adults feel is fun. Our young adults take risks and often learn hard life lessons in everything from finances to alcohol and sometimes drugs.
We know we as a society have issues with young people and alcohol abuse. College age young people are involved in more alcohol and drug related incidents, including accidents, assaults, sexual assaults and motor vehicle crashes.
And alcohol is a factor in two of the largest causes of death in young adults… homicide and suicide.
As a campus police agency, we feel strongly adding weapons to this mix will mean our college students are LESS safe.
Adding weapons to a college campus have the potential to increase the consequences of a young person’s actions, jeopardizing their safety and their future.
As a professional police department that polices the campus and the surrounding community, the Boise Police Department has armed officers assigned and dedicated to the campus with the tools and training to intervene in the event of a deadly force assault on or near campus.
We know from experience that a citizen with some training and a firearm may do more harm than good in the event of a true emergency, by causing confusion and slowing down the police response.
It takes a lot of diligence for a person carrying a concealed firearm to avoid accidental or negligent exposure of the weapon… to avoid negligent handling that might result in theft, an accidental discharge or discovery of the weapon by an innocent bystander… or to avoid carrying the weapon into a place where drugs or alcohol are being used.
THIS IS IMPORTANT……
…Because college campuses deal largely with young people 17 to 25 with varying degrees of life experience and maturity
… because many students live in rental or transitional housing that lack secure facilities designed to store, handle, or load and unload firearms
… Because these young people are often under new and unique stresses including relationships, grades and finances
…because a college campus often encourages dialogue on controversial issues that are racial, environmental and political that evoke not only thought but emotion
… and because college campuses are commonly visited by children and families as part of camps, field trips or community events…
Again, we do not believe a college campus is the appropriate community for citizens to carry concealed firearms.
We strongly recommend the University be allowed to restrict weapons on campus in the interest of public safety.
###
Testimony of Boise Chief of Police Michael Masterson, presented to the House State Affairs Committee Thursday, March 10, 2011:
Mr. Chairman and Committee members,
I don’t wish to repeat testimony already provided by Lt. Plott at yesterday’s hearing. You are well aware of the Boise Police Department’s position opposing House Bill 222.
I am here to clarify misrepresentations or perceptions offered yesterday regarding crime statistics representing the City of Boise and Boise State University.
A wise sage once said, “Statistics are numbers looking for an argument.” I’d like to put those crime numbers into perspective by facts:
The crime mapping feature you saw yesterday is a service all Ada County law enforcement agencies provide that we believe necessary to share with the people we serve. It does not mean crime is rampant in our city. In fact, the city of Boise – including our University – is consistently ranked as one of the safest cities in our nation. The symbols you saw posted represented assault battery/sexual assault and burglary/robbery. Here are a few more details you should know about those numbers:
Aggravated assault/battery – 90% occurred in a home, business, bar or restaurant and 97.6% the victim knew the assailant.
Robbery totals – out of 9 this year – 7 the victim knew the suspect.
In the area of sex assault, the numbers are comparable. There is a strong victim/suspect relationship and these cases generally occurring in a house or apartment.
The Campus safety study and the grading system you heard and saw is misleading at best. I ask you to compare apples to apples and consider just campus boundaries. We urge you to look at campus specific stats alone and not the fifteen block vicinity shown yesterday to illustrate a campus problem that doesn’t exist. Some colleges and universities are situated in urban areas and some are in rural areas making the variables considerable different. Here’s the breakdown on five of the major part one crimes reported to police in the past three years.
2008 2009 2010
Murder 0 0 0
Rape 0 1 0
Robbery 0 0 0
Aggravated Assault 2 1 0
Burglary 3 2 0
Official statistics provided by Mary Anderson, BPD Crime Analysis Supervisor
The other area I’d like to comment on is police response to active shooters whether they occur at a school, university, capitol, a bar or whatever. I don’t want to disclose specific police tactics in handling the critical events, but do want to reassure you and our citizens that it is a standard practice today in the policing profession around the county to take immediate decisive action to end the threat of an active shooter. There are no huddles, no votes, no waiting. (This comment being made in response to comment the U of I counselor made yesterday in testimony)
We believe the current law is reasonable and the proposed change offers a solution to problem that doesn’t exist.
Thank you.
henschman
Member
That's awesome... it would look pretty good on the ol' resume if you represented yourself in a lawsuit and got a university policy overtuned (unless the firm you're applying to is anti gun or something, lol).
Unfortunately I went to school in a state that makes you decide whether you love your life more than you fear the government (and the university) while you are on campus... I graduated last year from the University of Oklahoma law school. I sure hope the legal job market improves some before you graduate, because it really sucks right now. I have a lot of friends who are still looking for jobs.
I will keep an eye on this case. Good luck to your friend.
Unfortunately I went to school in a state that makes you decide whether you love your life more than you fear the government (and the university) while you are on campus... I graduated last year from the University of Oklahoma law school. I sure hope the legal job market improves some before you graduate, because it really sucks right now. I have a lot of friends who are still looking for jobs.
I will keep an eye on this case. Good luck to your friend.
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
"Crime Is Low"
It's a good thing the Chief is on top of this.
He will make sure that his department has an advance heads-up before any violent actor goes on a rampage at the school, and will make sure that the appropriate students and faculty are armed in time for the event.
No need to be armed while nothing's happening.
In other news, the requirement for maintaining automobile insurance is being discontinued, since there is no need for it when there are no accidents. Motorists who are due for an accident will be notified in a timely fashion so that they can buy the insurance in time for the accident.
Fire extinguishers will also be removed from public buildings until actually needed to deal with an emergency. Notification of impending emergencies will be handled by the Fire Department's new Prediction Division, modeled on the same division found in our Police Department.
It's a good thing the Chief is on top of this.
He will make sure that his department has an advance heads-up before any violent actor goes on a rampage at the school, and will make sure that the appropriate students and faculty are armed in time for the event.
No need to be armed while nothing's happening.
In other news, the requirement for maintaining automobile insurance is being discontinued, since there is no need for it when there are no accidents. Motorists who are due for an accident will be notified in a timely fashion so that they can buy the insurance in time for the accident.
Fire extinguishers will also be removed from public buildings until actually needed to deal with an emergency. Notification of impending emergencies will be handled by the Fire Department's new Prediction Division, modeled on the same division found in our Police Department.
OP
OP
longdayjake
Member
"a proposed solution to a problem that doesn't already exist."
So people shouldn't be allowed their rights because it doesn't solve a problem?
So people shouldn't be allowed their rights because it doesn't solve a problem?
Wait I'm confused by Mr. Tony Plotts, "This is important because" list.
A 21 year old can carry in many places, drink a beer, gamble, get married, buy a house or car, take out a loan, sign a contract but... as soon as he steps foot on a college campus he does the following: Becomes an adict, an alcholoic, and goes bankrupt.
An apartment not near a college campus is 'gun proof' but... make it a 'Student Apartment', charge twice the price and becomes a magic card board box and a bullet will bounce around untill everyone inside is dead.
'Mature & old people' not in college don't get divorced, passed over for a promotion or yelled at by a boss at work (equivalent of grades), or have their house or car repossessed
People only have protestes on college campuses and no where else.
People only discuss controversial matters in a park will not be come emotional, put them on in college campus and they will kill each other over a couple of words.
Children and families are only found on college campuses and no where else.
Makes perfect sense, right?
I call BULLSHÎT
A 21 year old can carry in many places, drink a beer, gamble, get married, buy a house or car, take out a loan, sign a contract but... as soon as he steps foot on a college campus he does the following: Becomes an adict, an alcholoic, and goes bankrupt.
An apartment not near a college campus is 'gun proof' but... make it a 'Student Apartment', charge twice the price and becomes a magic card board box and a bullet will bounce around untill everyone inside is dead.
'Mature & old people' not in college don't get divorced, passed over for a promotion or yelled at by a boss at work (equivalent of grades), or have their house or car repossessed
People only have protestes on college campuses and no where else.
People only discuss controversial matters in a park will not be come emotional, put them on in college campus and they will kill each other over a couple of words.
Children and families are only found on college campuses and no where else.
Makes perfect sense, right?
I call BULLSHÎT
slabuda
Member
Tell that to all of the people assaulted while walking home at night along the green belt.
Not all students (especially those 21+) live on campus and walk along the green belt in the evenings. Lots of assaults happen along there that are never reported (in the local media).
Dr_B
member
H0222 passed the house vote (http://www.localnews8.com/news/27216206/detail.html). It now has to go through the state senate. The bill still specifically allows educational institutions to prohibit guns in undergraduate housing.
House Passes Bill To Allow Guns On Campus
By Associated Press
POSTED: 12:04 pm MDT March 16, 2011
AAAText Size
PrintEmail
UPDATED: 12:56 pm MDT March 16, 2011
BOISE, Idaho -- The Idaho House approved a bill Wednesday that would allow firearms on public university and college campuses.
The House voted 41-28 on the legislation from Republican state Rep. Erik Simpson. It would prohibit schools from banning firearms, either carried openly or by people with concealed weapons permits, anywhere on campus except in undergraduate residence halls. Guns would be allowed at athletic events.
Idaho law now gives university and college presidents authority to prohibit firearms on campus. Boise State University, Idaho State University, the University of Idaho, Lewis-Clark State College and several community colleges throughout the state have adopted their own regulations to prohibit guns on campus.
Texas lawmakers are also considering legislation to allow college students and professors to carry guns on campus, adding momentum to a national campaign to open this part of society to firearms. It would become the second state, following Utah, to pass such a broad-based law. Colorado gives colleges the option, and several have allowed handguns.
Simpson, a two-term state lawmaker from Idaho Falls, says his legislation would increase safety at the state's four public universities and community colleges because letting students, faculty or others carry guns heightens the chances they could help prevent a violent crime.
"It is a basic human right to protect yourself from those who intend to do you harm," Simpson said.
The legislation was advanced to the full House despite opposition from Idaho's public universities and the state Board of Education. The measure cleared the House with support from one Democrat, state Rep. Grant Burgoyne of Boise, and 40 of the 57 Republicans in the GOP-dominated chamber. It now goes to the Senate.
Supporters argue campus gun violence, such as the 2007 mass shootings at Virginia Tech, show the best defense against a gunman is students who can shoot back in defense.
"We need to do everything that we can to prevent a Virginia Tech type tragedy on the campuses of the institutions of higher learning in the state of Idaho," said state Rep. Brent Crane, a three-term Republican from Nampa who supported the legislation.
Opponents argued allowing firearms at universities would only accelerate conflict and leave students and faculty in fear, not knowing who might pull a gun over a poor grade, a broken romance, a drunken fraternity argument, or an altercation at a football game.
"This is not the wild, wild West. This is academia in Idaho," said state Rep. Phylis King, a three-term lawmaker from Boise.
Rep. Wendy Jaquet, D-Ketchum, told lawmakers she had received a letter opposing the Idaho legislation from Lori Haas, whose daughter Emily Haas was injured in the Virginia Tech shootings. In an e-mail, Haas said her daughter and other survivors have opposed similar efforts to allow firearms on campus in Arizona and Texas
Haas provided a letter signed by survivors and family members of the deceased and injured.
"We have all replayed the events of April 16, 2007 over and over in our heads," the letter read. "It was the most intense, stressful, and chaotic situation we had ever experienced and not one of us is advocating for guns on campus; adding more people with more guns would only have made our situation crazier and more dangerous."
House Passes Bill To Allow Guns On Campus
By Associated Press
POSTED: 12:04 pm MDT March 16, 2011
AAAText Size
PrintEmail
UPDATED: 12:56 pm MDT March 16, 2011
BOISE, Idaho -- The Idaho House approved a bill Wednesday that would allow firearms on public university and college campuses.
The House voted 41-28 on the legislation from Republican state Rep. Erik Simpson. It would prohibit schools from banning firearms, either carried openly or by people with concealed weapons permits, anywhere on campus except in undergraduate residence halls. Guns would be allowed at athletic events.
Idaho law now gives university and college presidents authority to prohibit firearms on campus. Boise State University, Idaho State University, the University of Idaho, Lewis-Clark State College and several community colleges throughout the state have adopted their own regulations to prohibit guns on campus.
Texas lawmakers are also considering legislation to allow college students and professors to carry guns on campus, adding momentum to a national campaign to open this part of society to firearms. It would become the second state, following Utah, to pass such a broad-based law. Colorado gives colleges the option, and several have allowed handguns.
Simpson, a two-term state lawmaker from Idaho Falls, says his legislation would increase safety at the state's four public universities and community colleges because letting students, faculty or others carry guns heightens the chances they could help prevent a violent crime.
"It is a basic human right to protect yourself from those who intend to do you harm," Simpson said.
The legislation was advanced to the full House despite opposition from Idaho's public universities and the state Board of Education. The measure cleared the House with support from one Democrat, state Rep. Grant Burgoyne of Boise, and 40 of the 57 Republicans in the GOP-dominated chamber. It now goes to the Senate.
Supporters argue campus gun violence, such as the 2007 mass shootings at Virginia Tech, show the best defense against a gunman is students who can shoot back in defense.
"We need to do everything that we can to prevent a Virginia Tech type tragedy on the campuses of the institutions of higher learning in the state of Idaho," said state Rep. Brent Crane, a three-term Republican from Nampa who supported the legislation.
Opponents argued allowing firearms at universities would only accelerate conflict and leave students and faculty in fear, not knowing who might pull a gun over a poor grade, a broken romance, a drunken fraternity argument, or an altercation at a football game.
"This is not the wild, wild West. This is academia in Idaho," said state Rep. Phylis King, a three-term lawmaker from Boise.
Rep. Wendy Jaquet, D-Ketchum, told lawmakers she had received a letter opposing the Idaho legislation from Lori Haas, whose daughter Emily Haas was injured in the Virginia Tech shootings. In an e-mail, Haas said her daughter and other survivors have opposed similar efforts to allow firearms on campus in Arizona and Texas
Haas provided a letter signed by survivors and family members of the deceased and injured.
"We have all replayed the events of April 16, 2007 over and over in our heads," the letter read. "It was the most intense, stressful, and chaotic situation we had ever experienced and not one of us is advocating for guns on campus; adding more people with more guns would only have made our situation crazier and more dangerous."
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hermannr
Member
Deleted, sorry that was WSU (Weber State) where they have already change their policy...not WSU: Washington state U
This is Washington state U. WAC 504-26-212...and they support this with RCW 28b-30-150 (gives the regents power to regulate campus activities) Also, it is interesting that a student cannot carry, but there is no mention this applies to instructors, workers or guests.
However: This WAC is in direct conflict with RCW 9-41-280 and RCW 9-41-290.
Any of you Law students want to fix this at WSU?.
This is Washington state U. WAC 504-26-212...and they support this with RCW 28b-30-150 (gives the regents power to regulate campus activities) Also, it is interesting that a student cannot carry, but there is no mention this applies to instructors, workers or guests.
However: This WAC is in direct conflict with RCW 9-41-280 and RCW 9-41-290.
Any of you Law students want to fix this at WSU?.
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Dr_B
member
Two articles appeared in the campus paper today about Idaho house bill H0222, one for and one against guns on campus. There also was an anti-gun editorial in the paper. The anti-gun pieces were both emotional arguments based on some notion that college students are some kind of emotionally unstable at-risk population who cannot control their urge to whip out a gun.
Am I missing something? Aren't other non-student adults engaged in the same activities? Drinking, doing drugs, being emotionally distraught from time to time. They aren't running around shooting each other simply because they have guns. Yes, there are murders, but I don't see why is there an assumption that college students are more likely to engage in gun violence than other people? University policies don't stop that sort of thing anyway.
Yes, most campuses are safe places. No, I don't necessarily need a gun. I don't need Tylenol most of the time either, but I keep some in my briefcase. And I am not interested in taking down an active shooter. I'm not going to go looking for the shooter if I hear shots being fired. But I AM interested in have a good option for self-defense if a shooter enters my classroom.
Just to be clear, I am speaking for myself, not on behalf of any institution in Idaho.
Am I missing something? Aren't other non-student adults engaged in the same activities? Drinking, doing drugs, being emotionally distraught from time to time. They aren't running around shooting each other simply because they have guns. Yes, there are murders, but I don't see why is there an assumption that college students are more likely to engage in gun violence than other people? University policies don't stop that sort of thing anyway.
Yes, most campuses are safe places. No, I don't necessarily need a gun. I don't need Tylenol most of the time either, but I keep some in my briefcase. And I am not interested in taking down an active shooter. I'm not going to go looking for the shooter if I hear shots being fired. But I AM interested in have a good option for self-defense if a shooter enters my classroom.
Just to be clear, I am speaking for myself, not on behalf of any institution in Idaho.
Dr_B
member
Anyone know the latest on this case?
FIVETWOSEVEN
Member
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2009
- Messages
- 5,146
But don't the Police carry guns? Why do they? Crime is so low that they don't need them.
Dr_B
member
Saw in the campus paper today that the judge ruled in favor of the university. The U released a statement that the ruling affirms their "right" to regulate weapons on campus. Personally, I do not recognize what they claim is their right. What they have is an unconstitutional privilege to deny individuals the right to self-defense through deadly force.
If a private individual bans weapons on their property that is one thing, but a state institution should not be allowed to select which constitutional rights they recognize. The Idaho state constitution specifically says the right to bear arms is an individual right. There is no confusion as to whether it pertains only to a militia.
Idaho law gives the board of regents authority that supersedes the federal and state constitution. But really, there was no other expected outcome. A local judge was never going to rule against one of the most dominant economic forces in the state of Idaho; an institution that controls 60% of the local economy and indirectly runs the political machine in this county.
If a private individual bans weapons on their property that is one thing, but a state institution should not be allowed to select which constitutional rights they recognize. The Idaho state constitution specifically says the right to bear arms is an individual right. There is no confusion as to whether it pertains only to a militia.
Idaho law gives the board of regents authority that supersedes the federal and state constitution. But really, there was no other expected outcome. A local judge was never going to rule against one of the most dominant economic forces in the state of Idaho; an institution that controls 60% of the local economy and indirectly runs the political machine in this county.
orionengnr
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Meanwhile, Virginia State is in the news again. The guy who shot the police officer (and then himself) had a gun on campus, and I'd bet this week's paycheck he did not have a concealed carry permit.
So once again, prohibiting guns on campus only affects people who obey the law.
How is it that all these book-smart pinheads fail to grasp the obvious?
Sorry, that was a rhetorical question. We already know the answer.
So once again, prohibiting guns on campus only affects people who obey the law.
How is it that all these book-smart pinheads fail to grasp the obvious?
Sorry, that was a rhetorical question. We already know the answer.
hermannr
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Is there going to be an appeal?
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