My first bolt gun, Looking for advice

[bwalker36]

So I have started saving for a bolt gun. I have been eyeing the Bergara HMR. My biggest question now is 6.5cm vs .308. I know this is a heated debate and i'm not looking for which is better I have made up my mind on which one I would want in a perfect world already so right now I'm mainly focused on reality and cost.

I never really looked into the price differences before the plague so I'm having trouble gauging it. I will presumably only be shooting 140yrds max the majority of the time at paper and steel. I want to use the rifle for deer also. It will also be suppressed with a sandman and eventually a nomad.

How much more is 6.5cm ammo than .308 on average? I have near zero experience with either round and want to put a lot rounds down range and eventually move to the club near me that has a 300 and 500yrd range.

apologies for the ramblings lol.

 

[sarduy]

Basically 140 to 500 yards?

Go with 308, plenty ammo for training, hunting, surplus... And you can kill anything you shoot at within your 500 yards.

 

[horsey300]

So I have started saving for a bolt gun. I have been eyeing the Bergara HMR. My biggest question now is 6.5cm vs .308. I know this is a heated debate and i'm not looking for which is better I have made up my mind on which one I would want in a perfect world already so right now I'm mainly focused on reality and cost.

I never really looked into the price differences before the plague so I'm having trouble gauging it. I will presumably only be shooting 140yrds max the majority of the time at paper and steel. I want to use the rifle for deer also. It will also be suppressed with a sandman and eventually a nomad.

How much more is 6.5cm ammo than .308 on average? I have near zero experience with either round and want to put a lot rounds down range and eventually move to the club near me that has a 300 and 500yrd range.

apologies for the ramblings lol.

Check out Midway usa, they have ammo of both to price, lite recoil to practice with etc. To me "a lot of rounds downrange" means a 6.5 with 120s plenty for deer etc etc, kicking up to more expensive ammo for the 500 yds bragging pics. Now sheer cheap will fall to .308 loads most days, but value priced loads can be had in both.

 

[BigBL87]

Between the two, if you're looking at new production brass cased FMJ, the difference is a few cents per round in favor of 308 from what I've searched. However, if you are ok buying steel case and/or surplus for blasting ammo, 308 is the clear winner by a good margin. I use Ammoseek.com to search when I'm looking to buy or just wanting an idea on prices. Here are links for the two calibers.

6.5 Creedmoor
https://ammoseek.com/ammo/6.5mm-creedmoor

308 Winchester
https://ammoseek.com/ammo/308-winchester

 

[bwalker36]

Between the two, if you're looking at new production brass cased FMJ, the difference is a few cents per round in favor of 308 from what I've searched. However, if you are ok buying steel case and/or surplus for blasting ammo, 308 is the clear winner by a good margin. I use Ammoseek.com to search when I'm looking to buy or just wanting an idea on prices. Here are links for the two calibers.

6.5 Creedmoor
https://ammoseek.com/ammo/6.5mm-creedmoor

308 Winchester
https://ammoseek.com/ammo/308-winchester

Those 40c/r wolf really draw me towards the .308 for general range time.

 

[Glockula]

I'm not sure I would be thinking wolf steel cased for 300 to 500 yard work. I have not been very impressed with Wolf as a whole. I fired some through my CETME years ago and it was very dirty and not accurate.

I would compare some usable long range ammo between the creed and the .308 win and see what the real difference is. It may be less than you think.

The best thing to do here is get what you want and plan to get set up to hand load. You will tailor you rounds for your rifle and shoot more for your money.

 

[Huntolive]

I have 2 Bergara HMR s
1 is 308 and the other is 300 Win Mag what's your two of my favorite calibers.
I highly recommend the bergara HMR and furthermore I recommend that you buy it from Scheels which is a store in the midwest that I had never heard of before being an East coaster but not only will they have one of the best prices but they have fantastic people and customer service.

Do NOT let anyone sucker you into 65 creedmoor.
308 it's available everywhere including at your mom and pop general store in the Boondocks
it is always available even during Russia's and you have a huge amount of ammo to choose from including steel cased Russian surplus Ammo of many kinds as well as fantastic brass ammo off-the-shelf and obviously unlimited bullet types for reloading.
The same is true of 300 Win Mag.

Except maybe you won't find Russian steel 300 Win Mag LoL

Are the ranges you're intending to shoot you do not need a bergara HMR but Bergara has other hunting models I think one is called The ridge runner or ridge Hunter.
Don't buy the super expensive one that just came out get the previous model that is contemporary of the HMR.
I knew HMR should run you about 950 bucks
You could easily get a Tikka for more like 600 or something like the ridge runner for like 6:50.
when buying a bolt action rifle in 308 I honestly would recommend you buy used unless you're insisting on a particular model like the HMR which will be somewhat hard to find.

Resist the Kool-Aid: get the 308,I'm not saying there's anything particularly bad about the creedmoor but I thought about it and wouldn't do it.

 

[LoonWulf]

I'm not sure I would be thinking wolf steel cased for 300 to 500 yard work. I have not been very impressed with Wolf as a whole. I fired some through my CETME years ago and it was very dirty and not accurate.

I would compare some usable long range ammo between the creed and the .308 win and see what the real difference is. It may be less than you think.

The best thing to do here is get what you want and plan to get set up to hand load. You will tailor you rounds for your rifle and shoot more for your money.

Its good for making noise, none of my guns have shot any wolf wonderfully.

I Have a case of 6.5grendel ammo that i use as favor fodder, and blasting ammo in my semi. Which will do 1" with handloads or hornady black, and 4-5" with the wolf.

The wolf is good enough for function checks, and smacking steel plates quickley at mldest range, but thats about it.

If I were considering a bolt gun, eapecially like the hmr, ammo cost would be with middle of the road ammo at cheapest. At that point the .308 dosent offer a huge savings.

Personally i dont like the .308, so would chose the 6.5.
But, either will work well for what you want, and neither will be painful or prohibitively expensive. The 6.5 will kick slightly less, drift slightly less, and shoot a tad flatter.
The .308 can deliver a heavier bullet, and is slightly more common.

really id probably just pick the one i thought looked coolest......

 

[Huntolive]

One additional beauty of 308 is that there are many many truly excellent semi-automatic rifles chambered for 308 which is also essentially 7.62 NATO.
I personally have at least 5 different styles of semi-automatic rifles chambered in 308 and 4 bolt action rifles. Those include ones from Russia Belgium United States and Israel

Go with 308 and don't look back

 

[boom boom]

One additional beauty of 308 is that there are many many truly excellent semi-automatic rifles chambered for 308 which is also essentially 7.51 NATO.

7.62 NATO

 

[I6turbo]

I know the 6.5 is a good round, but I think very few people would actually make use of any of the benefits that it may offer in certain situations. .308 is a great round, IME. My varmint rifle in .308 (CZ 550) is a pussycat in terms of recoil (because it's got some weight to it) and is perhaps my most satisfying gun to shoot because it just piles round after round very precisely on target, in the .25 - .5 MOA terrirory with a variety of factory loads at 100 yards. My favorite factory round is Federal 168 grain SMK Gold Metal Match Target that can be bought in normal times for about $.85 - $.90/round. Not as cheap as reloading, but it (factory ammo) is very accurate and just a mouse click away, so I've never set up to reload for it.

 

[horsemen61]

6.5 Creedmoor is what I suggest as a guy who has both in a bolt action it is my recommendation it will do all the .308 will do and then some


Also I suggest you at least look into handloading because cheap ammo most often isn’t accurate ammo you can really cut the cost down if you load your own

 

[jmr40]

I think the HMR is a better dedicated target rifle than a hunting rifle. The B14 Hunter is a lighter trimmer rifle more suited for hunting. The B14 Ridge uses a slightly heavier barrel than the Hunter and is the better compromise gun IMO and the way I'd go. It's a lot less expensive too. I currently have a Hunter in 6.5 and have a Ridge in 308 ordered that will be in next week. As well as multiple other rifles in both 308 and one rifle in 6.5CM.

https://www.bergara.online/us/rifles/b14/ridge-rifle/

I've owned 308's for years, am heavily invested in the cartridge with rifles, ammo, and loading equipment. I've taken the time to develop loads that I like and I'm not selling any of my 308's. But for a guy getting started I can't think of a single reason to choose 308 over 6.5 CM in a bolt gun. Maybe for use in a military style semi-auto.

The days of cheap surplus 308 are over. For decent ammo prices are close enough to be the same with a slight advantage going to 6.5 CM. Any store that carries one will carry the other. I know some guys who don't reload who use this. I've seen some 4" groups at 600 yards with this $13/box ammo.

https://www.natchezss.com/sellier-b...ntLink&utm_medium=56335&utm_campaign=74383-NA

For long range target shooting 308 starts to run out of gas at about 800 yards and you have to really work up some off the charts loads and use 28-30" barrels to make it to 1000. The 6.5 is still in the game at a mile with standard barrel lengths. You may never shoot that far, but the 6.5 does it with recoil closer to 243 than 308. As a target round it isn't even close.

As a hunting round the 6.5 will kill anything a 270 or 308 will kill at reasonable hunting ranges. There is no advantage here either way. But for the guy wanting a dual purpose rifle to shoot at the range and use for hunting 6.5 all the way.

 

[robert4301]

If you're hunting, the HMR is fairly heavy to carry. If you don't have to walk too far and/or hunt from a stand, the HMR is viable. If you have decided on 308 and using the rifle for range/ target, the HMR is a good idea. 308 has significant recoil so a day at the range with a lighter rifle than an HMR may not be all that much fun. If you have decided on 308, you'll enjoy its much greater barrel life.

 

[FL-NC]

I have rifles that fire both. For hunting, I prefer the 6.5 CM. My Ruger American shoots groups at less than 1" at 100 yards using Federal Nontypical 140 grain, $17 a box at Academy sports.

 

[Huntolive]

I agree with Robert and jmr40 that the HMR is heavy as a hunting rifle but definitely not impossible.
That is why I also geared you to other models Bergara has. Jmr 40 and I both recommended the ridge rifle.
you definitely can hunt with the HMR but you're lugging around some extra weight my HMR wears a bipod
It's what I used to extend for long range shooting and it fills that role perfectly while still being portable enough if you want to hunt with a bipod or if you're not walking more than a couple hundred yards.
If you're going into the hinterlands I wouldn't get a bergara at all I'd get a Tikka T3 lite stainless steel
But I still say 308 all the way especially in regards to the semi-automatic rifles that you can use it in.
Check out the Tavor 7, Springfield s, AR-10s, Saiga 308, Galil Ace 308, FNAR

Hell you could just buy an FNAR and call it a day!
Oh and don't forget the good old-fashioned Browning BAR!
If I was to get one rifle it would be a Browning BAR and whatever caliber I wanted.
I know you're focused on bolt action but the 308 gives you so Many Platforms it already has guns designed for

 

[Newtosavage]

Lots of old school riflemen on this forum, so take the .308 recommendations with a grain of salt. The 6.5 CM is replacing the .308 as America's favorite cartridge, and doing it more quickly than most people ever expected - including those that created it. 6.5 CM ammo is already as cheap an available as .308 ammo in most places (certainly around here) and you can find .308 bullets on the shelf everywhere right now, but no 6.5's, which should tell you what people are loading for these days.

If you ever plan to sell the rifle, a 6.5 CM will sell faster than a .308 these days.

I know these things are heresy on this forum, but it's just reality from someone that owns neither caliber because I'm just fine and dandy with my 7mm-08's.

Also, EuroOptics has the Mauser 18 on sale right now for $399, so that's another good budget option in the marketplace.

 

[rayatphonix]

I have multiple rifles in both 308 and Creedmoor. Both are good rounds, but there is a reason the 6.5 CM is the #1 selling rifle out there these days. Better ballistics and less recoil advantages go to the CM, with the ability to handle heavier bullets going to the 308. My experience with decent ammo is they are so close in cost I wouldn’t let that be an issue. I’ve got Bergaras and Tikkas and both are great rifles. I would handle each and choose the one that felt the best.

 

[Flatbush Harry]

I have a Bergara B-14 HMR in 6.5 Creedmoor...it is a wonderful, though somewhat picky, shooter. Mine shoots to 0.5 MOA with only one load, 36.8 gr of Varget.

That said, I would recommend .308 Win for ammo cost and barrel life considerations. A .308 Win barrel should be good for 5,000-8,000 rounds before accuracy degrades whereas a 6.5 CM barrel might only have 2,000-2,500 round expected life. Now most precision shooters view rifle barrels as consumables but not all shooters feel that way. I love both cartridges but I shoot much more .308 Win than 6.5 CM.

 

[bwalker36]

I have decided to ease into this game a little bit. I'm probably going to pick up a ruger american predator in either .308 or 6.5c with a diamondback tactical 4-16x ffp and get started. I need to learn to shoot and from all I have read they are very accurate. Although I consider my self a proficient shooter I have very little experience going for any form of precision so as I get better I'll get a better rifle and my son can have the predator.

 

[Slamfire]

The 6.5 Creedmore is an excellent cartridge, might take a couple of more decades to find out if it is another cartridge du jour, or here to stay. I am going to say the 308 Win deserves its reputation as an accurate cartridge. It happens to be easy to reload and produces outstanding accuracy and good velocity with a whole bunch of powders. All hovering around IMR 4895 in burn rate. The WW2 era cartridge was developed with IMR 4895. There is lots of data and lots of bullets for the 308 Win, and if you are not pushing it to maximum velocities, you can get barrel lives in the order of 4000 to 5000 rounds. Those 6.5 rounds, everyone pushes them hot, and 1400 to 1500 rounds barrel life is not uncommon.

This is just a plain jane, stock box, M70 PBR with ammunition loaded on a Dillion 500B, where the charges are thrown, and the bullet seated. I do the sizing on a single stage and the priming with hand tools.









This was fired in NRA competition by a gentleman who won the 1000 yard Wimbleton. He is amazingly consistent, and when I grow up, I want to be as good as him.

Twenty shots prone with sling, 100 yards, iron sights.






This is mine, it is in 308 Win. It was originally set up for Across the Course only later did I add the scope. It is heavy with that bar bell on top!

 

[bwalker36]

I'm looking at picking this up to just learn to shoot. Once I can outshoot this I'll move up. I think i'm going to splurge a bit on glass and get viper pst gen II 3-15x ffp.

Forgot to link: https://ruger.com/products/americanRiflePredator/specSheets/6974.html

What would be good practice factory ammo?

 

[horsey300]

I'm looking at picking this up to just learn to shoot. Once I can outshoot this I'll move up. I think i'm going to splurge a bit on glass and get viper pst gen II 3-15x ffp.

Forgot to link: https://ruger.com/products/americanRiflePredator/specSheets/6974.html

What would be good practice factory ammo?

At what distance?
Generally practice ammo should increase with skill, if you can't shoot .75 moa, how do you know it's the ammo causing problems? To me practice means lots of it? So how much are you willing to spend? Buy as many types/brands that you can buy large lots of after you figure out what your rifle likes best.
Generally speaking the affordable Federal fusions tend to earn praise (from myself and others) but longer distance shots will appreciate something with a better bc. I'd really suggest throwing 1-300 rds of the cheapest stuff you can find downrange whilst you work on your form, THEN experiment with what your rifle likes best.

 

[bwalker36]

At what distance?
Generally practice ammo should increase with skill, if you can't shoot .75 moa, how do you know it's the ammo causing problems? To me practice means lots of it? So how much are you willing to spend? Buy as many types/brands that you can buy large lots of after you figure out what your rifle likes best.
Generally speaking the affordable Federal fusions tend to earn praise (from myself and others) but longer distance shots will appreciate something with a better bc. I'd really suggest throwing 1-300 rds of the cheapest stuff you can find downrange whilst you work on your form, THEN experiment with what your rifle likes best.

My current club is 100yrds and there is a state range that goes to 300yrds about an hour away. So 100yrds mainly in the short term depending on how well I shoot. There is 1,000 yard range about 2 hours away but I won't join that unless I really get into this and would definitely upgrade my rifle before that.

So short answer is assume 100-300yrds.

Would throwing steel ammo down range in bulk to work on form be worth it or do I want something better to start? I would imagine even the steel stuff is going to be more consistent then me for a while. 60-70c a round for practice ammo won't kill me I already spend that on my .300blk. I would plan to reload though eventually. I already have a press that I use for pistol cartridges. So would only need to pick up the dies and rifle specific tools.

 

[Slamfire]

My current club is 100yrds and there is a state range that goes to 300yrds about an hour away. So 100yrds mainly in the short term depending on how well I shoot. There is 1,000 yard range about 2 hours away but I won't join that unless I really get into this and would definitely upgrade my rifle before that.

So short answer is assume 100-300yrds.

Would throwing steel ammo down range in bulk to work on form be worth it or do I want something better to start? I would imagine even the steel stuff is going to be more consistent then me for a while. 60-70c a round for practice ammo won't kill me I already spend that on my .300blk. I would plan to reload though eventually. I already have a press that I use for pistol cartridges. So would only need to pick up the dies and rifle specific tools.

That rifle has an 18 inch barrel and not only will the muzzle blast be awesome, but the velocity of the bullet will be reduced so much that you might as well be throwing whiffle balls when the bullet passes 300 yards. I prefer 24 inch barrels, most factory 308's come with 22 inch barrels.