ripcurlksm
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nm
My First Handgun -- Kimber - Is it worth the money?
- Thread starter ripcurlksm
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ripcurlksm:
Keep in mind my prelim is looking at the Smith because I want a Scandium frame.
I also set my 45's up to shoot super, and, the Scandium frame is the only lightweight frame I know of that will stand up to it, or, for that matter, consistent full house 45 loads, that can be obtained in the P.R. of Kali.
I'm after a fairly concealable 1911, and, having a full size, tricked out Kimber, the grip is a bit big for CCW. 4" barrel would also work a bit better, but, I haven't tried it yet in my particular holster.
If the guys are right, and S&W is using MIM parts, which I would check on first, since NO ONE here seems to own the currently offered S&W 1911's, I might consider something else.
For your camping uses, I would NOT go with anything I couldnt' bump up to 45 Super, but, that's just me.
"The only reason Kimber and Wilson Combat charge thousands is because dumb people will pay for something that has "CUSTOM SHOP" or "TACTICAL ELITE" laser etched into the slide. A rose is a rose, a $600 1911 is a $1,500 1911.
-OR-
Drop about $500 on a MILSPEC .45 and buy replacement parts for it. Ambi safety, full length guide rod and match springs, etc.. You can even have gunsmiths put serrations on the slide and checker the front and backstraps. Even with all these customizations calculated you still won't come NEAR the price of what Kimber wants for what you can have done at a fraction of the cost."
Wesker gave you excellent advice here. My custom II Kimber is setup to fire 45 Super, and 45 ACP. It's also got all Ed Brown internals I could buy, plus Ed McCormack, super thin grips, drives tacks, and, it's under 1200 dollars; the original gun was about 650-680 new, plus all the California anti taxes, and, normal tax.
I think the above is an EXCELLENT summation of the situation with 1911's. However, you have to be able to either do the work yourself, or, have a competent smith that can. Shipping firearms is the new ripoff for USPS, UPS,
and FEDEX. Figure about 100 dollars to ship your gun, if you have to.
All that said, the Detonics is a REALLY easy gun to pull apart and clean, and,
I think I would have liked one of their guns over my current Kimber.
I'd certainly try and take apart first any gun you are considering buying.
My Kimber does shoot darts, and, it's flawless in function, so far.
S
Keep in mind my prelim is looking at the Smith because I want a Scandium frame.
I also set my 45's up to shoot super, and, the Scandium frame is the only lightweight frame I know of that will stand up to it, or, for that matter, consistent full house 45 loads, that can be obtained in the P.R. of Kali.
I'm after a fairly concealable 1911, and, having a full size, tricked out Kimber, the grip is a bit big for CCW. 4" barrel would also work a bit better, but, I haven't tried it yet in my particular holster.
If the guys are right, and S&W is using MIM parts, which I would check on first, since NO ONE here seems to own the currently offered S&W 1911's, I might consider something else.
For your camping uses, I would NOT go with anything I couldnt' bump up to 45 Super, but, that's just me.
"The only reason Kimber and Wilson Combat charge thousands is because dumb people will pay for something that has "CUSTOM SHOP" or "TACTICAL ELITE" laser etched into the slide. A rose is a rose, a $600 1911 is a $1,500 1911.
-OR-
Drop about $500 on a MILSPEC .45 and buy replacement parts for it. Ambi safety, full length guide rod and match springs, etc.. You can even have gunsmiths put serrations on the slide and checker the front and backstraps. Even with all these customizations calculated you still won't come NEAR the price of what Kimber wants for what you can have done at a fraction of the cost."
Wesker gave you excellent advice here. My custom II Kimber is setup to fire 45 Super, and 45 ACP. It's also got all Ed Brown internals I could buy, plus Ed McCormack, super thin grips, drives tacks, and, it's under 1200 dollars; the original gun was about 650-680 new, plus all the California anti taxes, and, normal tax.
I think the above is an EXCELLENT summation of the situation with 1911's. However, you have to be able to either do the work yourself, or, have a competent smith that can. Shipping firearms is the new ripoff for USPS, UPS,
and FEDEX. Figure about 100 dollars to ship your gun, if you have to.
All that said, the Detonics is a REALLY easy gun to pull apart and clean, and,
I think I would have liked one of their guns over my current Kimber.
I'd certainly try and take apart first any gun you are considering buying.
My Kimber does shoot darts, and, it's flawless in function, so far.
S
ripcurlksm
Member
Super 45
Two Questions:
1) Can the Kimber Tactical Custom II be converted to 45 Super?
2) What exactly is modifyed on the gun to allow it to shoot 45 Super? Stronger barrel, pin, etc. I suppose?
Two Questions:
1) Can the Kimber Tactical Custom II be converted to 45 Super?
2) What exactly is modifyed on the gun to allow it to shoot 45 Super? Stronger barrel, pin, etc. I suppose?
I have a Kimber Tactical Custom II with the external extractor and have had no problems what-so-ever. That is not to say that some folks have not had them, but it does seem blown out of proportion. I have found it to be very reliable and accurate, and appreciate the reduced weight of the alloy frame, as I use it quite frequently as a carry piece. In all, to me it was definately worth the money. As to a 1911 style pistol as a starter, works for me as long as you realize that the learning curve is a bit steeper, but nothing that can't be done. Remember this was the main US military side arm for over half a century, and as such was the first pistol a great many GI's ever handled, and they had no problems. If you like the look and feel, go for it. You will have a solid dependable pistol that will last a life time.
Jack(just my 2 cents and worth every penny)
Jack(just my 2 cents and worth every penny)
Ya know, I bought a Kimber as my first handgun. It was a little overkill but I think it got all the: "buy a fancy handgun" out of the way so I could move on. It's a great gun, you'll have it for ever... However for the money, you could buy a glock and a S&W snubby, but if you're going to spend the money, make sure you get what you really want...
ripcurlksm
Member
Internal/External Extractor
VBJack - Wait, i was just told by someone on here that the Kimber Tactical Custom II has an INTERNAL extractor...
.45&TKD - Yes the Tactical Custom II has an alumnum frame. Is that a no-go?
What is the deal with internal/external extractor, you say you can visually see the difference. is it this?
HELP!
VBJack - Wait, i was just told by someone on here that the Kimber Tactical Custom II has an INTERNAL extractor...
.45&TKD - Yes the Tactical Custom II has an alumnum frame. Is that a no-go?
What is the deal with internal/external extractor, you say you can visually see the difference. is it this?
HELP!
Black Majik
Member
Yup, you got that right with the internal and external extractor.
S&W got the external extractor right, unlike Kimber's attempt at the EE. Kimber failed miserably to make the EE run correctly, thus they went back to the internal extractor.
The Kimber Tactical is a good gun. Keep in mind that the frame is aluminum, so it'll be lighter. Trade off is that the there would be slightly more recoil.
Lastly, DONT use magazines with metal followers in Kimber's aluminum framed guns. It'll chew up the feedramps. Therefore, I suggest magazines such as Wilson 47D's.
S&W got the external extractor right, unlike Kimber's attempt at the EE. Kimber failed miserably to make the EE run correctly, thus they went back to the internal extractor.
The Kimber Tactical is a good gun. Keep in mind that the frame is aluminum, so it'll be lighter. Trade off is that the there would be slightly more recoil.
Lastly, DONT use magazines with metal followers in Kimber's aluminum framed guns. It'll chew up the feedramps. Therefore, I suggest magazines such as Wilson 47D's.
ugaarguy
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- Mar 19, 2006
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- 13,828
All Kimbers had internal extractors. Then they had problems and went to an external extractor - on all their 1911s. Then the external extractor had problems so they have gone back to an internal extractor. If you send anexternal extractor equipped gun back to Kimber for any work I've been told they will put a new slide with internal extractor on it at no charge while it's there. So if you buy a new Kimber now it will have an internal extractor.
Do you plan to convert it to 45 Super? If so the aluminium frame won't hold up like steel will. If not then I wouldn't worry about it.
ripcurlksm
Member
45 Super
So VPJack's gun is a slightly older model of the Tactical Custom II which had an external extractor?
I would consider it down the road. Is the danger just the frame cracking? Or could the gun explode or other causing bodily injury? Thoughts? Reservations?
So VPJack's gun is a slightly older model of the Tactical Custom II which had an external extractor?
That Kimber is a beaut, and from experience I know the SW1911 is a good choice too. If you are smart/co-ordinated enough to shoot a handgun, you can handle a 1911. I don't buy into this "starter" or beginner" crap - just wastes time and money. If you are limited in your purchasing power, buy what you want.
A 1911 takes about a minute to disassemble for cleaning. It is also easy enough to strip down further if desired, with no special tools, and with no roll pins or watch springs or other such parts to worry about. There are less parts then most DA autos, and tons of documentation on how to do it..
It will most likely feel great in your hands. It will most likely handle the recoil of .45 fine, though the Kimber Al frame will be light(er), and may lead to wearing & longevity issues (I would go steel). It will most likely be accurate. It should be reliable (a key feature!).
Enjoy it.
The only "drawback" will be if you decide to CC it, besides the size, is you should be comfortable with carrying cocked & locked - a real non-issue though when you are used to the gun.
Millions and millions of GIs Marines, Sailors, etc learned to handle the 1911 over 75+yrs., figures you can too.
Edit: saw your last post...re: aluminum frames - I had a Colt XSE with Al frame, it got gouged in the feed ramp area from the magazines (w/metal followers); also, some ammo like Golden Saber is not recommended as it too can wear on the ramp. I would not buy another light weight .45, as worrying about it holding up was not worth the weight savings.
A 1911 takes about a minute to disassemble for cleaning. It is also easy enough to strip down further if desired, with no special tools, and with no roll pins or watch springs or other such parts to worry about. There are less parts then most DA autos, and tons of documentation on how to do it..
It will most likely feel great in your hands. It will most likely handle the recoil of .45 fine, though the Kimber Al frame will be light(er), and may lead to wearing & longevity issues (I would go steel). It will most likely be accurate. It should be reliable (a key feature!).
Enjoy it.
The only "drawback" will be if you decide to CC it, besides the size, is you should be comfortable with carrying cocked & locked - a real non-issue though when you are used to the gun.
Millions and millions of GIs Marines, Sailors, etc learned to handle the 1911 over 75+yrs., figures you can too.
Edit: saw your last post...re: aluminum frames - I had a Colt XSE with Al frame, it got gouged in the feed ramp area from the magazines (w/metal followers); also, some ammo like Golden Saber is not recommended as it too can wear on the ramp. I would not buy another light weight .45, as worrying about it holding up was not worth the weight savings.
ugaarguy
Member
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- Mar 19, 2006
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- 13,828
The frame cracking is the major concern from hot ammo. Gun going kb (ka-boom) is usually caused by a double charged handload or otherwise defective ammo - at that point steel, aluminium, plastic, whatever ain't gonna matter - it's just bad luck, and injuries, surprisingly, are usually minor. It's rare - I mean your car engine could blow up and cause you injury, but do you worry about that either? If you like that Kimber then go for it and get the Wilson 47D magazines with plastic followers. Honestly I like the 47Ds anyway and use them in my steel framed Springfield Armory. Edit - I still would not convert an aluminium frame 1911 to 45 Super. If you still want to do a 45 Super down the road buy a steel or scandium frame gun then.
Yes, exatly. One of my friends also has an EE Kimber that runs great and shoots better.
Hawk
Member
All this talk of aluminum frames has me wondering...
Not applicable to ramped barrel, right? It dawns on me I don't know if the Nowlin-type ramp takes over all the frame ramp duties.
Not applicable to ramped barrel, right? It dawns on me I don't know if the Nowlin-type ramp takes over all the frame ramp duties.
cedjunior
Member
My next suggestion would be to get one of those new Taurus PT1911's, if you can find one. I have yet to read a bad review from anyone who actually shot one, although there are a lot of people out there who don't like the gu because its a Taurus. I'm really interested in this gun myself.
If I was buying my first gun, knowing what I now know, it would be a Kimber TLE. Full size steel frame, with front strap checkering, and night sights (and the Kimber tight tolerances). Very practical and its what I carry.
I started with a 1911 and would not change that. Its like knowing how to drive a stick shift. You don't really know how to drive until you do.
I started with a 1911 and would not change that. Its like knowing how to drive a stick shift. You don't really know how to drive until you do.
ripcurlksm
Member
Thank you! Finally..
I dont think there is an option to get a steel frame with this model..
GungHo
Member
The only issues a 1911 might pose to a "newbie" is disassembly... and doing it once usually teaches you what you need to know. 3"-ers are a little more of a conundrum but nothing dramatically hard.
chickenfried
Member
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- Feb 17, 2003
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- 497
I have a Kimber that I enjoy. But IMHO $1018 is too close to Les Baer, STI territory. I'd say $800 tops for a kimber, S&W, Sig, etc. before I just paid the little extra to move up to the next tier in quality.
Bazooka Joe71
Member
I don't mean to steal this thread, but how much would I be looking to spend if I wanted a conversion kit for a 1911.
BevrFevr
Member
Buy the Smith
Kimber = record of problems
Smith = no record or problems
Smith used to, and may still, make Kimber Frames and Slides.
You should start with a .22 first.
I own a smith have shot kimbers, colts, and springfields. buy the Smith!
You are a silly person if you want to defend yourself against dangerous game animals with a 45 or even a shotgun. very silly.
don't "super size" it either. I'm of the firm belief that one should not use +P or +P+ or super or whatever. If you don't have enough power with std pressure move up a caliber till you do.
-bevr
Kimber = record of problems
Smith = no record or problems
Smith used to, and may still, make Kimber Frames and Slides.
You should start with a .22 first.
I own a smith have shot kimbers, colts, and springfields. buy the Smith!
You are a silly person if you want to defend yourself against dangerous game animals with a 45 or even a shotgun. very silly.
don't "super size" it either. I'm of the firm belief that one should not use +P or +P+ or super or whatever. If you don't have enough power with std pressure move up a caliber till you do.
-bevr
ripcurlksm
Member
Maybe your right. Maybe I should go for a bow and arrow instead?
Edit: Maybe play dead?
BevrFevr
Member
think 44mag and 30-06
If you are gonna be camping with lions and tigers and bears (oh my), that would probably be the realistic bottom rung of the ladder.
Hopefully, your .45 and shotgun taste like salmon so that after the bear or lion have eaten you because you pissed em off shooting at them with .45s and shotguns, they can eat the guns for desert.
course you may want to go with a bow, it is tapered on both ends, for easy insertion.
bevr
If you are gonna be camping with lions and tigers and bears (oh my), that would probably be the realistic bottom rung of the ladder.
Hopefully, your .45 and shotgun taste like salmon so that after the bear or lion have eaten you because you pissed em off shooting at them with .45s and shotguns, they can eat the guns for desert.
course you may want to go with a bow, it is tapered on both ends, for easy insertion.
bevr
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