My first reloads with pictures - Split case

[Dan Forrester]

Hello everyone. I finally started reloading with my 7 year old son after sitting a full reloading setup my father left me. I have basically no experience reloading and my father passed away before he really gained any reloading experience to pass on.

I figured the best place to start was with .38 special since I had everything I needed.

we used Winchester Western .38 special cases from who knows where? We tumbled, resized, checked OAL and loaded with 125 grain XTP and around 5.3 grains of Unique.

The die set we used was a Lee 4 die set. Everything fired fine out of my Ruger 77/357 however I was surprised to find a split case and two others with a split neck.

we only reloaded 9 cases. It was just an experimental run. The worst cases are on the right of the pictures. I positioned the cases to show them off at the worst possible angle.

How did we do? No need to sugar coat anything. I’m here to learn. Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Dan

 

[nettlle]

If these were old cases that have been fired many times the cases could have split due to many firings.

 

[.45Coltguy]

Two things possibly. Cases just might be old and loaded a number of times. Picture #4 is refering to 110gr loads, not 125gr. So.....

 

[Blue68f100]

Looks like you may be over crimping with the LFCD. 38 spl does not require a lot of crimp to hold the bullet. Over expanding the mouth of the case will cause premature splinting when combined with over crimping. I would loose the LFCD for the 38 spl and use the std roll crimp in the seating die. Those that split in the middle of the body is considered bad brass. It happens, once those get out of rotation the rest should last a long time.

 

[Dan Forrester]

Looks like I took a picture of the wrong page. I remember I used 5.3 grains of unique which makes sense looking at the 125 grain data. Here’s the correct picture.

not sure what the history of these cases are. I have probably 1,000 or so .38 special brass cases I have fired over the years. Some of it factory new and some of it gun show reloads.

I will chalk it up to old cases for now.

Thank you both for your responses.

Dan

 

[Mk-211]

Something isn't right, pic 2 in your post, some of the cases look weird.

Did you set the dies per instructions? Some of the cases look like they were crushed.

 

[Tilos]

Cases look to have been WAY over crimped and if crimped into a serrated cannular, that could have nicked the cases and started the cracks/splits.
jmo,
.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

Just wondering… what did you measure your powder with? Electronic scale or balance beam? Is there a possibility that the scale wasn’t calibrated? It takes a heck of a charge or a really bad case to blow the side out like in the picture.

 

[Englishmn]

What gun did you fire those in? It seems like the brass expanded a lot compared to the case head.

 

[AJC1]

I would not base a problem in your process on cases with unknown history. I loose a few here and there and that's just part of the game. My chamber in my marlin levergun is far from match grade. If you want to learn, check out discussions of minimizing brass movement. Roll crimps are tuff on brass as is expanding for loading lead. If your loading jacketed, minimum neck flair and taper crimps will increase your brass life.

 

[Slamfire]

Old brass, exposed to the elements, or having powder charges in them for decades, is prone to split. Gunpowder outgasses NOx, one component is NO2, which is a horrible oxidizer and attacks brass. And then, in Florida, you have that salt air, humidity, and horrible corrosion. None of that is good for brass.

The closer to salt water you are, the more corrosion. Everything deteriorates and corrodes in a salt air environment.

And then, brass flaws will show up in time. Don't sweat the body splits, they will occur more frequently the more the cases are reloaded.

 

[Dan Forrester]

I think Blue68f100, Tilos and AJC1 are correct about my crimping. From thinking back about the entire process I think I was overdoing the Lee Factory Crimp Die. I was seating the bullet with the seating die with no crimp and then crimping with the LFCD at the cannelure on the XTP bullet. If I use the crimp in the Lee seating die that would be a taper crimp right?

Mk-211: Yes I did set the dies per the instructions. They should be carbide dies from what I read although it doesn’t say it anywhere. I did super lightly lube them. Maybe I should lubricate them more next time? Lube is only necessary during the resizing step right?

Mr_Flintstone: I used Hornady lock and load powder measure with the pistol metering insert installed. I checked the charges with a small Hornady electronic scale that took two aaa batteries. My calibration consisted of placing multiple 125 grain XTP bullets on the scale and they all came out to around 124.4 to 124.6 grains.

Englishmn: Gun is a Ruger 77/357 with 11” barrel and Liberty Mystic suppressor.

Slamfire: Interesting reading up on Nitrogen Dioxide. Makes sense the brass sitting around for who knows how many decades un-cleaned would be weakened. And yes I’m close enough to the ocean to hear the waves hitting the shore on those cold winter nights when we dip down into the 60s.

Thank you everyone for taking the time to help me out with my first reloads.

Dan

 

[lordpaxman]

Congratulations on your first reloads! If split cases are the only problem, I’d claim success.
Before and after pictures of your reloads would be nice, but I’d say the brass was just old. If you didn’t have much trouble ejecting cases, and they fired fine, good deal.
I would caution that it’s standard reloading practice to start with the published “start” charge weight. My Hornady 10th lists the 125 XTP with 5.1gr Unique as a start, and 5.6gr is a +P load. Good luck with your hobby!

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

See the double cannelure on the cases ? This is wadcutter brass. Probably old. Decades old.

Very likely reloaded many times.

Don't worry too much about old brass body splitting. It does that. Working the brass - sizing, shooting, sizing - hardens it. After a while it gets too hard to expand and contract. It splits.

I would also recommend starting at the "start" loads. You have zero experience. Start at the beginning.

Parenthetically, that wadcutter brass is desirable to some. You may be able to trade it off at advantageous terms.

 

[Rule3]

OLD brass.

Take some pictures of loaded rounds so we can see what they look like

Old Brass

If you need some newer brass let me know, I have a few around here,

 

[Blue68f100]

If I use the crimp in the Lee seating die that would be a taper crimp right?

Yes and No. Dual purpose. If you run the die body down lower it does a roll crimp.

 

[.45Coltguy]

Blue is correct, roll crimp is what you want. Light to medium crimp. Your Lee FCD is fine, just adjust to mentioned crimp. Very simple.

 

[AJC1]

So one of the least liked things in these parts is brass trimming. I do a lot because I load more 38 and 357 than all others combined. If your roll crimping, having brass of equal lengths helps a bunch. It also makes your crimp more consistent. I pick up a bunch of brass and when an untrimmed piece slips into the mix, it's very obvious in the handle and the finished product. I do use the Lee fcd that your using and it's a great die in my experience, some hate it with a passion.

 

[wcwhitey]

Looks like old brittle shot unknown amount of times Wadcutter brass. Primers look good, pressure appears normal. A few of the pics are cracks that I see from brass that has reached its limit as far as shooting, resizing and crimping. I would back off in the crimp a bit, only what is necessary and what is not pictured is how much of a flare or bell you are using to seat the bullet. Again only flare a case big enough for the bullet to be properly seated.

It’s a process, trial and error. Your load choice is good and your primer depths seem to be good. Looks like you sorted brass which is also good.

 

[Mk-211]

In case you don't have one, go on ebay and buy the latest edition of "the ABC's of reloading".

This will help you getting started in reloading, welcome to the addiction.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1342454046...DSkZ6fEmC9zq3UlTJrXp+0Tn0=|tkp:Bk9SR6aR6uugYQ

 

[roval]

maybe check to make sure your sizing die doesn't have any grit that may scratch the cases. not to be a debbie downer but i suggest not involving your son right away except for maybe case tumbling step when you are just starting. too much of a distraction and i personally would be afraid of any priming mishaps exposure.

 

[PWC]

Just like Tilos said, these are fired cases and they are still over crimped. Old or new, surprised there weren't more body splits, no matter how old the brass is.

If you have that much crimp after firing, you are resizing the lead bullet by scraping it smaller when you fire.
Particles have to go somewhere probably shrapnel out the sides of the cylinder. Accuracy may suffer too.

Check your crimping process.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

As many of the other said, old brass and way to heavy a crimp, especially if that much crimp is still visible after you fired the round...

Take a look at the crimp on the round posted in this thread by Walkalong. (2nd post)
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/please-grade-my-seating-depth.911704/

More photos in this thread from Walkalong. (Post #6)
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/crimping-without-a-bulge.909082/

You will get it, I'm sure...

 

[tmd16556]

I started with the same sort of brass. 38 special from an old cheese box. I get similar mystery neck splits. Who knows if it was a factory new case from 1950 fired once or it has been reloaded 50 times. I’ve started crimping 38 special more lightly too.

 

[mdi]

FWIW; I maybbe wrong but I don't see much wong with the crimps. I have fired many 38 Special handloads that leave bit of "crimp" from lower pressure loads (also 44 Specials). Little to do with "ovecrimping". Bass that is fired and resized many times becomes work hardened and prone to splits/cracks. I just see old brass, reloaded many times cracking from overworked metal.