My house was broken into..........

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The fact of the matter is that we don't want our rights violated. You can either be one of the problems with this country and try to sue for millions, or you can try work in some way with police (especially if they have some sort of COPS program) to educate them as to what is and isn't a valid search. You can be part of the problem or part of the solution.

I agree 100%. A law suit would not be about money. It's about the department being properly educated on peoples rights. Since he already contacted the department and they blew him off the only thing left to him are the courts.

If enough people take their rights seriously then maybe they will eventually take your rights seriously as well.
 
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Ayone can rant off the Const. What case law do you have, Mr. Attorney? That is what the Judge is gonna ask for. Btw, give both sides of the argument for the sake of honesty.

Case law already stated above. The wife gave the consent. Then the consent was revoked. Yet the LEO continued to perform an illegal search. There are literally thousands of cases of departments being sued for similar violations. They aren't hard to find.

Once again, just because I like repeating myself, I didn't say that the officer was correct. But what damage are you going to sue for? I would think that any decent criminal defense attorney would be able, AT WILL, to site many different case laws regarding search...but you didn't.

The officer made a mistake that involves a constitutional right...guess what? It happens hundreds of times a day. To put it in simple terms, if there isn't a malicious act and damages done, you are not going to get anywhere with a lawsuit. You will wast the courts time, your time, and my tax dollars.

If you believe that police are inherently evil, then there is nothing that I can or will say to change your mind about this. If you believe that the police generally strive to do the right thing and you are a reasonable enough person to agree that they sometimes make honest mistakes, then why the argument? IN THIS CASE there were no damages. The right thing would be to make it a lesson for training and help the police become better informed.

We all agree that what happened was wrong. How you go about dealing with it from here is what tells us all what type of a person you are.
 
The officer (covering his a**) had your wife open the safe. She did so voluntarily (regardless of how coerced she felt, she did open it voluntarily)

Smart for him, bad for you.

Story over.
 
The officer (covering his a**) had your wife open the safe. She did so voluntarily (regardless of how coerced she felt, she did open it voluntarily)

Smart for him, bad for you.

Story over.

If I understood correctly. The key was given to the officer. The officer opened the safe AFTER consent to search was revoked.
 
I don't know what your undergraduate instructors have taught you, but revocation of consent is not as cut and dried, trust me, as saying, "Oops! Too close, John Jacob Jungleheimer Schmidt. Get out!" That doesn't work, at least in state and federal courts around here. Maybe it does in Posner's World.

I agree, it's not that simple, but most of the people on here are not lawyers. The best way that I can explain it is this: if there is a consentual search being conducted and the police up to the point of revocation of consent do not have PC, they have to stop. If, prior to the revocation, they have found something to indicate that there is reason to continue, they can. What would happen (if they are doing it correctly) is that they would stop the search at that point, secure the area, and obtain a warrant.

REALISTICALLY, the only legal recourse would be if they actually found something and charged the OP, then you could have the evidence dismissed. But as a punitive measure with no charges or further investigation against the OP, well, good luck with that one.
 
"Lawyers only work for money"?

Well, no. I will work for certain guns.

How many accountants do you know who will work for free?
 
Unfortunatly, lawyers only work for money. Unless you are willing to dump a load of your own money down a bottomless rathole .... this is over.

Nothing in life is free. If you want to protect your rights you have to fight for them. I'm not telling anyone what they should do. Only what I would do. The great thing about rights is they are yours to throw away or fight for as you see fit.
 
eng23ine said:

And THAT's why NOBODY else has the combo to my safe.

I'll extend that and say, don't share it; don't even write it down.

Doc2005
 
If I understood correctly. The key was given to the officer. The officer opened the safe AFTER consent to search was revoked.

That was how I understood it. But even for the sake of argument, if he said no to the search beforehand, where does that leave the officer? You have husband and wife, co-owners, the one at the scene tells you yes to the search and hands over the key, the other owner on the phone says no to the search. Which owner is the officer supposed to listen to, the one on the phone or the one at the scene who just gave him the key? Keep in mind that his reason was to make sure that the property was okay, and that he wasn't searching for contraband. This is exactly the reason why a lawsuit won't fly.
 
Duke of Doubt said: This forum needs a better "quote" system, or at least one we can use more often. I can't tell who is responding to whom.

Yeah I agree with you.. but it can be done, just that no one does... BTW this is just an example; and I have no beef with you Sir.
 
Keep in mind that his reason was to make sure that the property was okay, and that he wasn't searching for contraband. This is exactly the reason why a lawsuit won't fly.

The key was in it's hiding place and hadn't been touched. The LEO knew the safe had not been touched. He was definitely snooping in my opinion.

I will concede the point on if the wife had also revoked consent after speaking with her husband. I assumed she had but I may be mistaken.
 
Consensual search. Nothing you can do about. It's a big fail by your wife-unit.
 
The OP stated:
But of cores she had already given the key to an officer and put him on the phone with me.

Didn't say if she revoked her consent or not.

Kids are home...gotta put the "dad" hat back on.

To the OP: Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
 
correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't the police need a warrant to search anything behind lock and key? Consult an attorney man, so that cop will think again before he does this again.
 
Last time I checked they can't search anything closed (trunk, glove compartment, safe, closet, etc) with out a warrant unless they have permission.
 
I must also agree with another user above... your "WIFE" gave him the key... that was an invitation... the police did nothing wrong.
 
Don't worry about the Police...

You were double-burglarized; once by the burglar,
then by the police. Sorry that you and your wife had
to be experience being violated by a rogue cop.
 
Eric F,

You have been cased, and you can expect another visit from criminals.
When you are hit, you will be targeted again, after the insurance money, and items are replaced.

Here is how it plays; especially with the current times.
Times are hard, scrap metal prices are up. Are there any folks coming to town offering to buy scrap silver or gold? If so, expect a rise in break ins.

The mdse is sold before it is stolen.

First group does a grab and run, taking small items and casing the place. They report to a higher up, what you have, and they used to take calendars, and day planners, now they take pictures with cell phones. So they now have work schedules, dental appointments, doctor appointments, going out to eat with spouse, others...etc.

The higher up has buyers for Guns, Silverware, Jewelry, TV/Entertainment, Computers...etc.
Next time some better thieves will enter and take what is on the list, already sold.

These criminals know how long it takes for insurance to replace items. So they wait, and come back to get the new replacements.

They will find items such as spare keys, alarm codes, of family, and use those against family.
They have addresses and phone numbers, and now with Internet, it even easier to locate such folks.
It is not difficult to call and see if someone is home or other pre casing steps.

Now is the time to contact your insurance agent, especially if a close friend, and one you trust. Find out from the local Ins Adjuster what is going down and how the Methods are employed. (MO).

Software, not hardware is critical now.

Before now, you and the wife should of had a practiced plan. Now is the time to get a practiced plan.
Include code words, and pass words.
Use them.

For starters, do not advertise anything! No gun magazines, no Jlry left out, no silverware on display, ...anything that advertises anything about what you have, what you do, or where you go and when.

You mentioned being a Fireman. Get fellow FD persons to assist in keeping tabs on your place.
In like turn, you keep tabs on theirs.

If it were me, I would remove guns, jlry, silverware, valuables from the house, and put in another location, and keep my mouth shut.
Keep just what you need, still I would put nothing in that safe.
I would also move ammo, and spare firearm equipment.

IN any profession, there are bad representatives, be they , EMTs, Insurance Agents, Police, Fire Dept, ...any Profession.

My suggestion is to not stir up trouble with Police yourself, instead let your insurance agent, adjuster, and either ins lawyer, or a trusted lawyer friend be aware of, and deal with your being upset.

The game is dicey, because if for instance there is bunch in town casing places and taking items, the police may be busy.
These criminals make note of response times, and may have bigger targets.

They will target businesses, and homes and distract Police by tossing a rock through a window for instance on one side of town, while they take down the business or house on another side of town.
Criminals already know response times...all these small random "incidents" were actually part of a bigger plan.
Oldest trick in the book.

Make sure no spare keys are missing to vehicles, as they will take your vehicle for a bigger hit.
Oh and for goodness sakes, please do not advertise any gun ranges, or times you will be shooting.
This is too easy to get both your car and guns.

They know the types of locks you have, and most likely have a master key.
This is not safe for the wife when you are working and she is home alone sleeping.

Yes you have a right to be upset.
Now I suggest setting this being upset aside, and not let it be a distraction.
Let the ins/adjuster/lawyer handle it.
Heck, part of this may have been a distraction, who knows?

You tick off the cops, and they might just have another call, or be short of units to respond as quickly as should.

Be like a Duck-
Cool, calm , collect atop water, and paddling like hell underwater.
 
Eric F said:
and he said they have the right to investigate/search for anything if they have reasonable cause to suspect a threat or the possibility of a law violation.

Honestly speaking, that is complete bull. They have to get warrants for things that are not in plain sight. The run around your cop friend gave shows the breach of trust that has been exhibited on a daily basis by the police.

Consensual search. Nothing you can do about. It's a big fail by your wife-unit.

I do not know if that is true. If she said, I need to call my husband, then frankly speaking the cop didn't have the right to do it. The word attorney means at it's essence a representative.

Definition of attorney:

one who is legally appointed to transact business on another's behalf

Something to think about. I would get a lawyer and sue the police department. They were searching your house intending to prosecute you for violations when you were the victim.
 
The guys that broke in will most certainly be back...with tools and their own guns. They will either cut your safe open or force your wife to open it. The home across the street from me went through this ......wife was home. Knock on door...fake UPS uniform...gun in her face as soon as she opened the door. Now the guns are gone plus the jewelry plus two grand in cash.

Can you move your good guns away and put in some real junk? Throw a bone, just nothing good! Put $200 in cash in and some trinkets...nothing real. This is bad. You almost cannot win. :fire:

Mark.
 
ok lets all settel down on the lawyer thing I will find out tomorrow about that.

Some small facts I left out because I didnt think it mattered.

You should be mad at your wife. She should be mad at herself. You should both be mad at each other for not insisting on getting a security system installed.
We have ADT it failed A tech was at the house for 4 hours saturday to fix it, broken wire under the house.

The intruder never left the kitchen area, as evidence of muddy foot prints that clearly came in walked only in the kitchen and left.

Nothing was broken per se silver wear and everything on the counter was tossed on the floor with cook books and pots and pans, no damage other than the door and frame.(didnt even meet the cost of our deductable)

So I submit that the gun safe was never looked for or found neither was the key so in hind sight the cops cleared the house just in case but even the intruder could have never gotten to the gun safe with out moving certian items which obviously were never moved( I refrain form going into more detail as it really is not needed) other than saying the safe is well hidden and one would really have to know exactly where it is to find it, its not exactly in plain view.

My wife was again pretty much ordered to give up the key to the safe.

But wait how did the cops know I had one if it was hidden? They asked if we had guns in the house. and you can figure it out from there.

Now I asked the police dept where I work on legality, they said (short version) If you call 911 with a complaint they most certianly can enter a home with out a warent to investigate a complaint but have to keep with in the confines of the complaint unless other probable cause is found in plain view*(speaking of something counts as plain view in this case) So with that said neighbor has a noise complaint the cops come over knock on the door they can enter my house and tell me to turn the noise down then they small acetone and amonia(cause for further searching) and find my meth lab I can now be charged for drug violations.
How does this aply to me?
Well they asked about guns wife said we got them in the safe then they ask where the safe is she tells them, They can legally look at the safe with out permission but not open it. This is now the grey area where they got away with illegal search& seizuer with out the seizure. They tell me they are going to open my safe I say no they do it any way. This was wrong According to the police Dept where I work. That comes right from the folks that enforce the laws so I figure they should know. Their advice on what to do.....Contact a lawyer.

Stay tuned I will get back on this in the next couple of days.

IMO I dont really think my wife purposefuly did any wrong As much as I would like to thinks the cops were being helpful they are wrong.
The guys that broke in will most certainly be back...with tools and their own guns. They will either cut your safe open or force your wife to open it.
As far as my house being a target? No I think this was a local kid with nothing to do it was just random nothing was/is missing there is a good stero and a tv that could have walked a washer/dryer thousands of dollars in cook wear ect and all that was done was a toss job. Further more I have plenty in the back yard that could have walked like my boat motor or even my boat for that matter a couple of ladders ect. Will they be back? MAybe but I doubt it for now, Oh the shoe size is about a 5 so its a kid or a really small adult. And again whoever broke in would have no clue I have guns as they never entered the area with my safe.
Lets all be friendly here lots of opinions on the legal stuff and who knows diffrent places have diffrent rules so maybe we are all right to some extent.
 
yeah a tun of ammo for me was only 2k pistol 50 or less shotgun and 2-3 hunderd rifle go figure.........

My response to this would be to buy more shotgun ammo.

Don't sue. Complain and ask questions, but save your money on this one.
 
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