My Kahr is jammed up tight -- how do I get myself out of this one?

[tetchaje1]

OK, so I got a new Kahr MK9 Elite a few days ago and I have been playing with it quite a bit. This morning I thought I would do a test to see if the gun would feed an empty case. Heck, my SIGs and my USP will do it, so why not a Kahr, right?

Sooooo, I load up a with 4 or 5 empty cases and drop the slide catch and sure enough the Kahr fed the first case, but now the slide is locked up so tight that I can't rack the slide to get the spent case out. I can move the slide back about 1/8th inch, just to the point where the barrel starts to drop, and I can see the rim of the brass under the extractor. However, with all of my might I cannot rack the slide any further than that.

OK, so I'm a dufus. Now how do I get myself out of this without having to send the gun to Kahr?

 

[KelBench400]

Did you take the magazine out? It could be the next empty case in the magazine is catching on the underside of the slide.

If you did, try using the edge of a table or something else hard and solid to help push back the slide. Put the muzzle end of slide (above the barrel) on the table and push down on the grip. Go slow and steady.

I don't know how Kahrs break down, but can you field strip it? (I'm guessing not).

Good luck,
Kel

 

[Handy]

One technique is to put a dowel down the muzzle and into the casing and tap it with a hammer while pulling on the slide. This will work if the barrel is actually unlocked.

Another more straightforward method is to GENTLY pry the extractor up off the case rim and disassemble the pistol, then use the dowel on the barrel alone. The Kahr has an external, spring loaded extractor, so this shouldn't hurt anything.


As you may have likely guessed, this was a pointless test. Even if it didn't lock up the gun, the sharp edge of the case mouth can permanently knick up the feed ramp.

 

[SDC]

You might be able to use a large-diameter brass rod down the barrel to give yourself a bit more leverage; the rod will be supported inside the chamber by the empty case. so you'd even be able to give it a smack with a hammer to loosen it up. HTH.

 

[tetchaje1]

KelBench400,
Yes, the first thing I did was to drop the mag, and no, the slide has to be able to move back a bit further before I could sucessfully disassemble, or I would have already done this.

Handy,
I don't see how the case mouth could knick up the feed ramp considering the hardness of the steel feed ramp versus the hardness of the brass case. I will admit that it was pretty stupid though -- like I said I was just fooling around with a new toy.

I did try a plastic dowel down the muzzle and tapping with a hammer, but I didn't really want to bear down too hard with the hammer. The barrel is definitely past the point of unlocking as it is already starting to drop down at the maximum retracted slide distance.

I think that the extractor trick that you mentioned is probably my best bet. I'll try that and see if I can disassemble the pistol and then have a go at the stuck case just in the barrel.

I think that part of the problem is the cases were not yet resized.

I don't think I'll try that again, though...

Thanks for the help.

 

[El Tejon]

tetch, it's called "popping." Used only in emergencies when slide will not cycle.

1. Grasp the back of the slide with your off hand, your fingers and palm are in opposition;
2. With your strong hand form a tiger mouth or wide "C";
3. Strike the backstrap, hard and fast, at a slight angle where the "beavertail" would be on the Kahr (if it were a 1911).

Do this over a pad of some sort as you may drop the weapon, wear your eyes, remember Rule #1.

Second suggestion=gunsmith.

 

[tetchaje1]

I'll try that too, El Tejon, thanks.


Where is the sheepish-face smilie when you need it?

 

[tetchaje1]

That worked, El Tejon, thanks. FWIW, my hands are a little sore, but I am a happy camper again.

Does doing that have any adverse effect on the gun? I wouldn't think so because the forces are still far less than actually shooting the gun, but I just have to ask...

Handy,
With your comments, I think that I am going to go and tear down my SIG 239 to see if there are any marks on the feed ramp from doing that (granted, stupid) test.

Thanks again, for all of the help, guys.

 

[Handy]

I had a Witness that I dinged the feed ramp doing the same thing. Just sharing my experience (also dumb).

You can cut glass with steel, you can score steel with brass.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Word for the wise.

Kahrs tend to have chambers that are tighter than other guns.

In some Kahrs this has caused problems with using reloads -- my K9 has problems with some commercial reloads.

The big question is, why would you want to feed an empty case?

It tells you absolutely NOTHING about how the gun will feed loaded ammo.

 

[tetchaje1]

The big question is, why would you want to feed an empty case?

It tells you absolutely NOTHING about how the gun will feed loaded ammo.

Both you and Handy are absolutely right. I will admit that it was dumb, and I was just playing around. I guess I was trying to see if the gun would feed something like wadcutter ammo -- which I know still doesn't make any sense considering that the OAL is completely different.

Oh well, live and learn.

Handy,
Thanks for the info about your Witness. I'll inspect my SIG more closely when I get home.

 

[Navy joe]

The only defense for loading empty cases is practice. I do it with my two Glocks to simulate failures. Sometimes they feed, sometimes they don't, but they never go boom. Stuck randomly in a full mag with ten or so mags loaded it becomes good learning. Invariably, some mental giant will make a comment about those _____(whatever gun I'm doing it with) are all like that, junk!

 

[El Tejon]

brasshopper, you have learned a great lesson in gunfu. Now go and teach others. [gong sounds]

 

[braindead0]

I was going to suggest adding some peanut butter and toast...

 

[care-less]

Kahr

Next time just put in an empty somewhere in the loaded mag; not all empties! Glad you got it fixed Yeah, I have tried the same thing with mine, just wanted to see if the weapon would feed anything.

 

[Handy]

Snap caps are designed to simulate failures and will feed correctly out of a mag. Brass is just a crap shoot.

Tetchaje got his gun clear, but he had to put an enormous strain on the extractor to do it. That's not something you want to have to do much on a gun that will not function without a working extractor.

 

[COHIBA]

i was gonna say blowtorch.

 

[Gewehr98]

Damn, that's some hard brass!

As you may have likely guessed, this was a pointless test. Even if it didn't lock up the gun, the sharp edge of the case mouth can permanently knick up the feed ramp.

Steel feed ramp vs. brass case mouth?

Ever look at how a S&W Model 52 feeds it's ammo, and what the ammo looks like? It's a flush-seated hollow based wadcutter. Looks for all practical purposes like an empty .38 Special case. And it feeds them, no problem, either loaded or empty, up that steel feed ramp, no garfs.

For simulating malfunctions or breaking somebody of a flinch habit, I'd skip the empties and go right into either snap caps or make designated dummy rounds.

Mike, my Kahr K9 had the same tight chamber problem. Still does, I just make sure my carry ammo is factory new and my play ammo is reloaded on the tight side.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"Mike, my Kahr K9 had the same tight chamber problem. Still does, I just make sure my carry ammo is factory new
and my play ammo is reloaded on the tight side."

I don't reload for 9mm anymore, it's simply too cheap, and the commercial reloads aren't significantly cheaper than Winchester white box or S&B, so I just go with new all the time in mine.

 

[Handy]

There definitely are some weapons that will feed empties, but in finding out you can damage the feed ramp. Since there isn't any 9mm wadcutter, what are you finding out about your gun? Very little. It would just demonstrate either the feed angle or extent that the chamber is throated-neither being a predicter of reliability.

If you don't believe me about the sharp brass edge, take a sharp piece of aluminum (softer than brass) and drag it down the side of a shiny blued slide.

 

[Gewehr98]

Doesn't bode well, then...

For all those alloy-frame 1911's, Commanders, and Officer's ACP's, especially without ramped barrels.

 

[Handy]

Why? What goes up the feed ramp should be the rounded tip of a bullet, not the edge of a casing.

 

[Navy joe]

As to why empty cases and not snap caps:

Snap caps always feed, yet do not go bang. All that is useful for is seeing how the old flinch is doing that day and then a simple clearance drill. The empty cases make it a real crapshoot, you get some simple failure to fires, some phase 3 and other weird stuff. It's better than intentionally sitting there and setting up a malfunction because with that you know what to expect when you pick up the gun.

Un-needed thus far, with my carry/competing 1911 I've had 3 reload related malfunctions that were easily cleared, and one that I had to beat the gun into the nearest handy prop to clear. (Try that with a full length guide rod.
The Glock 34 had it's second round ever fired fail to feed and has been fine for the last 3000-4000. The commander length Glock has not choked yet, I've only had it for 1000 rounds/2 weeks.

Oh well, even if my guns don't choke it's good practice.

 

[Gewehr98]

Seen some hollow points of late?

Why? What goes up the feed ramp should be the rounded tip of a bullet, not the edge of a casing.

For example, Speer Gold Dots, Remington Golden Sabres, Winchester Black Talons, Federal Hydra-Shoks, those big hollow-point bullet mouths don't necessarily ride on the outer ogive as they go up the feed ramp. Especially the truncated cone bullets like the Hydra-Shoks. They often hit with the edge of the hollow point right into the feed ramp. I'll post images of my 1911 frames with a loaded magazine in place to illustrate.

 

[Tamara]

Gewehr98,

Actually, when some bright star puts enough of a polish job on the ramp of an alloy-frame 1911 to buff the hard anodized surface layer off, Golden Sabers will chew the feed ramp up in relatively short order.