My Kel Tec PF 9 Finally Broke

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Incrediblerod

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I bought it in 2007 and have well over 1000 rounds through it with no problems.
Yesturday it jammed for the first time.
Upon inspection, I found that the assemby pin head broke off.
There was a small crack in the slide at the slide stop.
And there appears to be a crack in the frame rail where the assembly pin goes in.
I will now get to test Kel Tec's great customer service I have heard so much about.
Comments and suggestions welcome.
 
not much else could be broken on it-huh??? They can't take alot of rounds. Kt will take care of u...
 
That cheap, durn, Kel-Tec.

You should have ponied up & bought a Kimber like I did-oh, wait-a-minute; my $1000 Kimber's extractor broke at about 300 rounds.

Well, even though Kimber wanted to send me the extractor so I could replace it myself, I stood firm & made them do it so it could be tuned accordingly.

Kimber took care of me.

I've dealt with Kel-Tec before; they'll take good care of you too.

Sam
 
I have a Keltec P-32 and like the brand but a pistol should last more than 1k rounds before a catastrophic failure like this. I am taking the Pf-9 off my to buy list.
 
All firearms are subject to failures, but the more I hear stuff like this, the less I am inclined to by said product. I just mention on another thread last night that Kel-Tec owners usually fall into a few categories.

1] My Kel-Tec is a bad gun

2] Ket-Tec fixed it now it works

3] I fixed/ modified a few things now it is ok

Although I really want a small .380 pistol I have stayed clear of Kel-Tec's so far. I am going to buy one anyways, but I have been reluctant up until now because of all the bad things I hear. Knowing everyone has different experiences makes me want to give it a shot, but some firearms just have ALOT of naysayers out there. Same with the LCP. I am still nor convinced the LCP is worth the hassle. In every LCP discussion there are unhappy people with the same problems.

Having said that the Bersa Thunder & Plus version .380 gets a lot of good reviews by real people. Obviously you sacrifice in the size department. It will be interesting to see how Karh, Taurus, & Sig change the .380 market with their new intorductions.

I know Springfield Armory XDs & XDMs get an overwhelming amount of praise everywhere you read about them. I waited for the hype to settle down, and then finally took the dive. After buying the XD .40 tactical it took about 3 months before I bought an XDM 9. Some guns you just get a good feeling about before you make the purchase.
 
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I had an LCP and after the recall started having issues with the mag release so i got rid of it, i just didn't feel like i could depend on it in a time of need, with little pistols like that you give up something to get something. from now on for me i will have to just stick a 642 in my pocket or a G26 on my side. Chewy
 
Let's look at this in a brand-neutral way:

1) Frame Cracks

A good frame should last a long, long time. At 1,000 rounds, no properly designed and implemented frame will be anywhere near cracking regardless of material (steel, aluminum, polymer). I consider this a major problem.


2) Pin breakage

This is a small part that can easily break in any gun. I don't consider this to be a deal breaker.


3) Rail cracks

Again, this is an essential part of the gun. Properly designed rails will wear over time, but not break. 1,000 rounds should be 1-2% of the lifetime of the gun. Again, a deal breaker.

In my mind, this confirms the evaluation I made on the PF9 that I had purchased. I noticed imperfections in the polymer frame. The forming done on it was not clean. Frankly, it just looked weak and was not pleasing to the eye (in terms of design and finish).

I suspect you may wish to look into upgrading your carry gun. If you take any serious tactical training, 1,000 rounds is barely two gun courses...that's one to four days TOTAL. Do you think your gun will survive training that includes a bit of rough handling? At the very least, you'll be out some money for the course in missed training (if you don't have a spare gun). Would you have confidence that the gun would be in good working order AFTER such training and in duty use.
 
I have to believe a manufacturer like Ruger has to improve the LCP or discontinue it.

It seems the LCP is already becoming somewhat of a stain. Plenty of people have no problems and love them, but I have read innumerable accounts of the pistol not working and breaking.

Making a small extrmemly light weight gun really LOW COST seems to be the problem. IMO it takes better, more expensive technology, to make something extremely small/ light, and yet insure that product does not to suffer in quality.

For instance lets do a rough comparison to another metal product: BICYCLES.
If you want a high qaulity, durable, extremely light mountain or road bike, you have to fork up some big buck. Why? Because TITANIUM ain't cheap, and it isn't as easy to weld as aluminium. HELLO MCFLY IS ANYBODY HOME

Discalimer: I still want one (LCP).
 
1000 rounds is just getting out the door. KT will probably take care of you but a cracked frame and slide at 1k rounds is unacceptable. 1000 rounds is just getting out the door for a serious pistol and particularly one that is meant to be used for self defense. Inexpensive is one thing cheap is another.

I have long suspected that the Pf9 wouldn't hold up to frequent or hard use. It is just one pistol but your experiences don't do anything to indicate I'm wrong.

Thanks for sharing. Let us know how KT handles it.
 
I had a P11 for 10+ years and put several thousand rounds through it without incident. My Pf9 was no where near the gun the P11 was. I ended up selling it and getting a CW9 instead. Over at Ktog several people had that same pin break. The general consensus was that they were not seated completely when they broke. Not saying that's what happened here, that's just what seems to be the sase on them over at ktog.
 
well that stinks! I was going to recommend the pf9 to my father has a good low cost carry gun. I suppose I'll have to point him to something like a Bersa Thunder 9 UC although those cost a bit more...

~Norinco
 
I have to believe a manufacturer like Ruger has to improve the LCP or discontinue it.
They did. Hence, the free recall upgrades. Supposedly, they did more than make it "drop-safe" by replacing other parts too. In the letter I got back with my LCP after the recall, it says "...but other, more subtle improvements have been incorporated too, and these should make your LCP even more rugged and reliable in the best Ruger tradition."

I always had a feeling that the PF9 was shooting an over-powered cartridge for such a small, unrobustly designed gun. Maybe the P11, being a double stacked configuration, is more durable and can take more abuse from the recoiling slide...

Either way, I don't think guns like these being discussed should ever have more than 1000 rounds through them in a life-time. I feel that they should be shot for a few hundred rounds when brand new to ensure reliability, then a few magazine's worth every now and then to stay somewhat used to shooting it should a real-life encounter every happen. I mean they are pocket guns that hardly have real sights! The effective, useful range isn't more than 7 yards, so I consider them more of point-and-shoot kind of guns. Why do some people insist on wearing them out over extending range sessions? I don't know. That's what the more expensive, better-built service guns are for! Pocket guns should be back-up to another IWB gun anyways. If you have to leave the house with ONLY a pocket gun, it is still better than leaving the house with nothing at all.
 
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not much of a gun to be told 1000 rounds and u are getting marginal with it...Not for me. I don't consider 5000 rounds alot of rounds either. guess some do...

they ought to print it in the maual then to alert a buyer to NOT SHOOT it much. and I don't just mean kel tecs either!!
 
Did you get the new frame?

They are shipping them now with new frames, not sure if this is why. I seem to recall cracked frames in the first production.

They retrofitted mine when I read about it.
 
Kel-Tec will fix it. I've had no problems with any of my Kel-Tecs, but all guns can break at any time (that's why I almost always carry a BUG).
I've had quite a few high dollar guns break well before 1,000 rounds too (Glock, Sig, Springfield).
 
I've had quite a few high dollar guns break well before 1,000 rounds too (Glock, Sig, Springfield).

I've had other guns have issues and need repairs but not a cracked frame AND a cracked slide. As stated earlier of the major components that could break, most did. That's hard to defend. Now maybe it is not representative. One would hope not.

I feel that they should be shot for a few hundred rounds when brand new to ensure reliability, then a few magazine's worth every now and then to stay somewhat used to shooting it should a real-life encounter every happen...

Any gun I am going to carry and potentially stake my life on I want to be able to shoot more than every so often and definitely more than a thousand rounds. As i said earlier IMO 1K is just getting out the door for a pistol intended for serious use. Even point and shoot ranges require LOTS of practice for a real gun fight. Plenty of videos of people missing each other at distances measured in feet to illustrate the veracity of that point.

A gun that is not designed to be shot much seems nonsensical to me. That said I know lots of people buy and carry guns and only rarely shoot them and even more rarely if ever "practice" with them. For them I don't think what they have on their hip or in their pocket really matters so it might as well be something inexpensive.

Pocket guns should be back-up to another IWB gun anyways. If you have to leave the house with ONLY a pocket gun, it is still better than leaving the house with nothing at all.

I tend to agree but do on occasion use my BUGs as primaries. Now I admittedly practice less with my BUGs but i still expect to be able to shoot them regularly and they should shrug off 1k rounds. I'll trade some size, weight, and price for reliability and longevity.
 
I've yet to see a polymer pocket pistol I would spend money on. Seems like it's easy enough to get a BUG that's small enough (Seecamp, NAA Guardian, Colt .25, blah blah) but the technology to make them super light just doesn't seem to be there.
 
I just have a couple things to add to this post. First, there are exceptions, but a gun shouldn't suffer that type of damage after 1000 rounds. And second, why are some of you so intent on claiming someone has to put thousands of rounds through a gun like this, in order to make it protection ready? That is ridiculous. It is a point and shoot gun-you aren't going to need that much training with it.

A gun should last longer than that. On a side note, to everyone intent on putting thousands of rounds down range in guns like these for practice, to each his own. It's not all that necessary though. I'd put rounds down range with a gun that will actually allow me real feedback of my shooting skills.
 
I've yet to see a polymer pocket pistol I would spend money on. Seems like it's easy enough to get a BUG that's small enough (Seecamp, NAA Guardian, Colt .25, blah blah) but the technology to make them super light just doesn't seem to be there.

Yet several companies are doing just that. Kel-Tec has done an amazing job with small polymer pocket pistols. How can you argue with their success? Have there been bumps in the road along the way? Absolutely but the technology is certainly there and proven. What percentage of gun buyers actually post on a forum? For every one complaint on a forum there are hundreds if not thousands of people with trouble-free experiences.
 
It is a point and shoot gun-you aren't going to need that much training with it.

I fundamentally disagree with that statement. When someone is trying to kill you or do you serious bodily harm it is a very different situation than when one is standing at the range calmly shooting holes through paper.

When that small auto has a jam when you are facing death how much thought do you want to need to put into how to clear it? You don't want to need to put in any thought; it needs to be a reaction.

When someone is coming at you with a knife is not the time you want to learn that you cannot quickly draw because your pockets are too tight or that your pocket holster snags the pistol or that the holster comes out of your pocket still on the gun. when you are fighting for your life is not the time you want to realize that you have never fired a shot from a retention grip or off of your back, or with your weak hand or ....

When one needs to pull out a pocket pistol it is a safe assumption that things have really gone south. It is a time I want to have practiced to the point I am reacting not thinking of solutions. The types of scenarios that require use of a CCW (and perhaps a small pocket pistol in particular) are unexpected and unfold rapidly. If not, one could remove themselves before the trouble started. Again this means it is not the best time to be trying to figure things out or remember how they ought to be done. It is about having ingrained things to the point of reaction.

I'd put rounds down range with a gun that will actually allow me real feedback of my shooting skills.

I put rounds down range with the types of guns being discussed in order to develop the skills needed to effectively use them for their intended purpose. I am not shooting for groups with my snub nose or pocket autos. Training (and this is true of more than just guns) should be done with ends in mind. The point is not merely to shoot a lot for the sake of shooting a lot it is to develop particular skill sets.

Situations can very quickly require skill sets above and beyond point and shoot and when the time for action has arrived the time for preparation has passed. Even point and shoot is not as simple as it sounds when one is discussing a real gun fight. As I wrote above, there are many videos one can find on the internet of people unloading a magazines worth of rounds at each other at spitting distances and no one getting hit or similar such scenarios. Of the videos I have seen a number of them are LEO shooting full size duty guns not tiny pocket pistols.

Practicing with these types of weapons may not be all that necessary in the same way that carrying a gun is not really all that necessary. Odds are you will never need it anyhow. That said I prefer to carry and if I am going to carry a weapon I prefer to be as proficient in its use as I can be. Proficiency and training/practice go hand in hand.
 
I have to say that the above post has put things out there very clearly. I have to say that I could not agree more with the post. Having said that I do belive that there is such a thing as shooting for fun but at the same time we're alwasy truing to hone our skills for that one SHTF stiuation.

In response to the OP I would have to say that 1K rounds are a bit few... no matter what the gun.
 
Girodin,

I realize that one needs to practice with any gun he/she is going to use for protection. I am merely saying that I don't understand the validity of actually firing 1000+ rounds down range with a pocket pistol, unless it's for fun. I am trying to make the point that the "training" involved with these guns mainly consists of pulling out and pointing. Therefore, you could get a lot of practice done at home.

This is merely a preference and I'm not lashing out at you (FYI). And keep in mind I'm not opposed to it, if that's your cup of tea. I have a Walther .380. When I first bought it, I took it out for a couple semi-long sessions. And now, every once and a while, I burn 3-4 mag through it. However, I do not need to fire this thing thousands of times to be proficient with a pistol. I have other pistols for that, which was one of my original points. With that being said, I feel that I am proficient in taking out and pointing my Walther efficiently.

Please take all of this with a "grain of salt." I'm not saying I'm right or wrong, just maybe have ideas that differ from yours concerning training with a pistol.
 
The issue is that if a gun's construction is such that it fails at 1k rounds there is a good chance another from the same mold will fail a 100 rounds. No one is saying that a pocket pistol should be a range gun. Manufacturing capability is all about statistics and this is a red flag folks.
 
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