My long-range chambering choice: Redux / Revamped / Revisited

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Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

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For my custom paper-punching LR turnbolt build that I've been contemplating for years, which gawd willing and the crick don't rise, will be happening within 2 or 3 years, I keep vacillating on chambering choice. Now I think I have it "narrowed down" (expanded from previously actually) to these choices, which I would like to compare & contrast once again from a fresh perspective, in a vacuum, all things considered. Keep in mind that my build WILL have a 30" ultra-bull on it, so I want something that will definitely take advantage of that barrel length.

These are *roughly* in the order of my current preferences (which change almost weekly :) ):

1. 6.5mm-'06 AI (wildcat)

2. 6.5mm-'06 (wildcat or at least semi-wildcat)

3. 6.5-.284 Norma (non-WC)

4. 6.5-.270 WSM (wildcat)

5. .280 Rem (non-WC)

6. .280 Rem AI (wildcat)

7. 7mm WSM (non-WC, but quickly going obsolete)

8. 7mm RSAUM (non-WC, but pretty much already obsolete)

This would be shot a fair amount, but not a LOT, so I'm not overly concerned with barrel burn. Needs to be capable of performing very well at 600, and in case I ever get access to a longer range, do fairly well at 1K yards also.

#5 jives with a caliber I'm aready into/have, so that's why it's in there, even though it's the slowest of the bunch. Still, it's not a terrible choice by any means.

#4 is the fastest and "most wildcatty" - may be too much barrel burn and/or too much hassle to make brass. But man, would it buck the wind!

#3 is a good choice, due to its popularity/standardization/excellent brass available.

I don't think I'd do #6, just because of the confusion of brass between .280 regular, which I shoot now, and that AI version - but am I making too much of the danger/inconvenience of keep the brass and ammo sorted/organized?

You may ask why I've not included X, Y, or Z, and I will tell you, but I'm pretty well settled on one of these 8. I *might* be persuade-able to throw "9. 6.5x55 swedish" and "10. .284 Win" into the mix, but doubt it.

Obviously, I want the best overall goldilocks balancing of:

-External ballistic performance (including good bullet selection), and including ability to take advantage of a 30" tube.
-Pleasant recoil
-Low componenent cost (powder, bullets, brass)
-Accuracy potential, including quality of off the shelf components (powder, bullets, brass), and including selection of barrel makers that know how to make a really good chamber/throat for the chambering.
-Ease of finding / getting / making brass now and in the future
-Reasonably slow throat erosion
-Reloading simplicity / ease, conducive to accuracy, and versatility with multiple powder choices.

Go! :)
 
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well i have to go with #1 as well. the 6.5 BC will do quite well especially with that casing. now if i had to flip a coin between Ackley or non Ackley it would depend upon how comfortable i was with setting those shoulders in the reloading process. personally i dont find it too much trouble and would pick the AI.

good list btw! my current long range toy is chambered in 7mm STW and i dig it pretty well!
 
I was sitting in the upstairs can last night reading trough one of my reloading manuals. (yes I keep extra copies in the heads.)
I was thinking that a custom throated 264 Win Mag might also work.

The original 264 Mag had a reputation as barrel burners because they were short throated and the powders available 50 + years ago did not allow for proper use of a long 6.5mm bore with lots of powder. So they used to deep seat the bullets...

But your project will be a custom with a heavy 30 inch barrel... As a result you could have it set up to seat the bullets long in the large 264 Win Mag case. The 264 Win Mag holds more powder than a 6.5x284...

Comparing it to known loads with the regular 26 inch barrels, you should be able to get another 100 fps with a 30 inch, ..... So about 3,300 fps from a 139 grain Lapua Scenar boat-tail.

Another close option would be the 6.5mm Shooting Times Western. They push a 140 gr Boat-Tail at 3,300 from a 26 inch....
But it would probably burn out barrels even faster than the 264 Win Mag..
 
I like the sensible 6.5-.284 Norma for the reasons that you mentioned,"its popularity/standardization/excellent brass".
There is a lot of load information for this caliber available, and importantly, it is a balanced round. The 6.5-284 provides great ballistics and reasonable recoil levels with reasonable barrel wear compared to any WSM based round.
The 6.5-'06 is comparable ballistically, and it is not a big deal to fabricate the cases, but will need a long action.
As Float Pilot indicated, the choices will probably come down to those two.



NCsmitty
 
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if you're going to run a 30" bull barrel, i would suggest a couple things. first, visit w/ a long range specialist about that heavy of a barrel and if it may need to be blocked (kirby allen out of great falls montana would be my first call).

then, on to your issue... w/ a 30" barrel, why not take full advantage of that length and go w/ a higher powder cap cartridge. why limit yourself? anyway, of the choices you have, the wsm series of cartridges make the most sense to me, and i would go 7 wsm first, 6.5 wsm second, and 25 wsm third.

as for me... i just got started on my next long range project and am piecing it together now. just waiting on a new firing pin and trigger to arrive, and then off to the 'smith it goes to have the fluted lilja #5 chambered (7 rem mag) and hung on the action (just finished stock work on it yesterday). not as heavy as what you want to do, but as heavy as i care to have on my back on a hunt.

good luck!
 
Definitely a 6.5 for the high B.C. and there is one out there I personally would build if I get the chance . It is the 6.5 STW ( Shooting Times Westerner ). It is built on the 8mm Mag platform with the goal of launching the 140 gr. pills at 3,300 (+) fps over long distances accurately . You cant get this level of performance from even the .264 Mag Westerner ( I know , I own one ) and the only other 6.5 bad boy that is faster but less practical is the Lazzeroni . You should be able to contact Shooting Times magazine and get their back issue featuring this calibre and I seem to recall they listed barrel builders who offer this chambering plus sources for reloading dies . :rolleyes:
 
You could go visit Benchrest Central and find out the competition guys use.

Actually, I believe it's between 6.5x284, .260, and 6x47 Lapua. Seems to be some guys moving to a straight .284 Win.
 
The 6.5s have a good rep, but I think I would favor the .280 AI. From what I have read, it seems to compare very well with the 7mm Rem Mag, without the belt. It should have enough capacity to do very well with a 180 gr Berger VLD and a good dose of one of the slower propellants in that 30 inch barrel. That should take you to at least 1000 yards. That I have seen, none of the commercially available .264 caliber match bullets can match the published BC of that 180 gr .284 caliber VLD, and having a little mass advantage over the 6.5mm will come in handy if you ever want to knock over rams, and just want the satisfying report of rounds landing on steel.

It's my understanding the .280 AI is a commercial cartridge now, since Nosler started producing rifles, brass, and loaded ammunition for the cartridge. That would make it popular enough to find components and data for, but rare enough to be interesting.

BTW, Nosler lists a 160 gr Partition @ 2950 fps for the .280 AI, presumeably from a 24 inch barrel. I am loading 63 gr of RL22 behind a 160 gr Nosler Accubond for around 2970 fps from the same length of barrel in my 7mm Rem Mag. This is obviously just a hunting load, but it is easy to extrapolate what may be possible with from the .280 AI with even a decent 168 gr match round, in a 30 inch barrel...

At any rate, of the choices you mentioned, it is the .280 AI that has most caught my personal interest, so in your shoes, that the way I would lean. Definately know what it is like to find myself rocking back and forth between a list of choices though.
 
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2. 6.5mm-'06 (wildcat or at least semi-wildcat)
Click to expand...

The 6.5-'06 is comparable ballistically, and it is not a big deal to fabricate the cases,
Click to expand...

6.5-06 is loaded by A-Square. Not so much of a wildcat anymore.

Side note- I chose the 6.5x.284 for my custom build. But it is only a 26" deer rifle. (Well until I started putting the best (looking) pieces on it.) The project started out as just a rebarrel and shave/reform the original stock of a shot out k98k. It's now gotten far out of hand.:banghead:

Wyman
 
Not a big fan of most of the cartridges, most are a little overbore for my taste, and I am not a big fan of most wildcats. I really like the .280Rem, but it wouldn't be my choice of a long range build. I think .260Rem. would probably be my choice, but the 6.5-06 wouldn't be too bad, and would be better for that barrel length (personally I would hold it to 24-26" and use a heavy tapered contour). One thing you want to start looking at well in advance is really good wheelbarrows...you'll need one for that bbl. :neener:

image-171.jpg
 
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Think I've narrowed it down to:

6.5mm-'06 (regular), since standardized / loaded by A-square (thank you JWF)
7mm WSM
.280 Rem (regular)
6.5mm-.284 Norma

roughly in order. Thanks for all the input. I've cut my choices in half at least, from 8 to 4.

Duck911...

Ok, I'll play....

Why didn't the .260 make your list?
Click to expand...

Not enough oomph!

You velly velly funny, Mav. :)
 
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Sounds like you kept the best of the best. I think bold takes it.

Just got an idea...maybe you could just put wheels on the buttstock to "carry" it with. :D
 
You said the majority of shooting will be within 600 yards, with shooting to 1000 yards from time to time. With that distance profile, there will be very little ballistic difference between .260 and a 7mm RM/WSM, which represent roughly the entire range of the cartridges you've listed.

Code: 
_Bullet_           _BC_ _MV_         0     200     400     600     800    1000 | YARDS
7RM 180           0.684 2950 >    0.00    1.71    7.15   16.87   31.51   51.86 | wind (inches)
260 139           0.615 2900 >    0.00    1.96    8.24   19.56   36.79   61.01 | wind (inches)
308 175 FED       0.51* 2650 >    0.00    2.79   11.94   28.88   55.48   93.43 | wind (inches)

7RM 180           0.684 2950 >   -0.00    0.33    1.54    3.02    4.76    6.79 | drop (mil)
260 139           0.615 2900 >   -0.00    0.36    1.64    3.25    5.17    7.45 | drop (mil)
308 175 FED       0.51* 2650 >   -0.00    0.51    2.19    4.36    7.09   10.53 | drop (mil)
At 600 yards with a 10 mph cross, there's only a 2.7" difference in windage, or 0.4 MOA difference!

You didn't mention hunting so I have a hard time reconciling your "Not enough oomph" comment in post #15 with your stated goals in the OP, specifically
-Pleasant recoil
-Low componenent cost (powder, bullets, brass)
-Reasonably slow throat erosion
Click to expand...
When considering shootability, low component cost, and long barrel life, the .260 beats all of those listed in the OP.

-z

ETA:
I've been contemplating for years, which gawd willing and the crick don't rise, will be happening within 2 or 3 years, I keep vacillating on chambering choice.
Click to expand...
I now see this as something of a mindset failure, having fallen in this same trap myself. It's better to pick one reasonably good rifle/cartridge/scope and shoot the heck out of it instead of spending time and energy vacillating over minutia, if your goal is long-range marksmanship.
 
I'll add something to this. I took Zaks advice on buying one nice setup years ago. Built myself one nice lefty 6.5x47, premier heritage, all the bells and whistles. Lots and lots of brass, powder, and 130 jlk's.
All was going great until my premier heritage went down. But thats another story all together.
Buy something you won't tire of shooting and shoot the piss out of it. Who would want to shoot one of these larger cartridges 200 rounds a weekend anyway?

As a side note, I think more rounds downrange will help in your shooting than any ballistic advantage these bigger cartridges bring.
Find that one good rifle and one good load, and really push yourself to be a better shooter.
 
All was going great until my premier heritage went down.
Click to expand...
Interested in hearing more about this...as I too have one. Mine has been plugging along just fine, and on a heavier recoiling rig to boot (.300WM), but I would like to know what to look for and how the CS treated you.

:)
 
my little lapua and 130 jlk's hangs in there with the big guys. only cost me 37.8 grains of varget each trigger pull.
I am convinced alot of these guys who brag about the big super wizzbang magnums never really get them out of the gunsafe. Doesn't cost much to feed those beasts so long as they never pull the trigger.


I think I posted several months what happened to my heritage. Basically, after about 500 rounds it stopped tracking like it should. I got as much as a 2 mil shift in target impacts at 1060ish. Really upsetting, but even worse was the customer service. They didn't have that scope but maybe a day before they shipped it back to me saying nothing was wrong with my scope. They couldn't explain what had happened. I sold the scope as soon as it came back, to a vendor. just couldn't trust it. I've been using a cheap chinese falcon since leaving the premier. I hate that falcon, but at least it tracks well. If S&B would move that lit reticle knob away from my lefty bolt handle, I would have already had one. Just waiting to see what comes about before dropping another 2k on a scope.
 
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I think I posted several months what happened to my heritage. Basically, after about 500 rounds it stopped tracking like it should. I got as much as a 2 mil shift in target impacts at 1060ish. Really upsetting, but even worse was the customer service.
Click to expand...
Ouch, I hope I don't end up having a similar experience.

:)
 
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