this is getting old: if you want to discuss the efficacy of multiple reloads start your own thread.
reread the op. you answered my question. stop trolling this thread.
murf
my pocket carry modification
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reread the op. you answered my question. stop trolling this thread.
murf
In my opinion the OP can choose to carry as many magazines as he pleases without having to justify this choice.
In South Africa: I had a Vektor CP1 carried IWB at 3 O'clock. I had two spare magazines in my left front pocket.
In South Africa: I had a Vektor CP1 carried IWB at 3 O'clock. I had two spare magazines in my left front pocket.
Of course--along with knives, lights, etc.
"Not a good idea" was poorly put.
The OP asked for advice, and without clarification, a response may not meet his needs.
I should carry an extra mag, but my ability to reload quickly under stress doesn't measure up.
For a period of time I carried a new York reload, but back trouble now mitigates against that.
I will never criticize one’s choice to carry as many reloads as he/she wants. I may be happy, much of the time, with a sixgun, perhaps only with loose cartridges for the reload, but, I am not going to be critical of someone wanting more/better.
Can I present a case for a civilian to carry three-plus total magazines? Absolutely. It starts with a disabled motor vehicle, perhaps due to a collision, while passing through a “bad” part of town. Other party uses a mobile phone to summon reinforcements, already being in the “bad” part of town, multiple reinforcements arrive quickly. So, one is on foot, on their turf, and may have to exfil, on foot, while “they” may well have motor vehicles.
The last time I was involved in a collision, it was in a “good” part of town, but the other driver’s reinforcements managed to arrived amazingly quickly. Fortunately, the other driver’s support person was just one person, who was a calming influence, and, the police unit arrived relatively quickly.
Another reason to have Multiple-reload capability: One cannot usually count the rounds fired, in the heat of the moment. One reloads at the first available opportunity. At the conclusion of that reload, if one has only brought one reload, one now has NO more reloads, unless the first mag can be recovered, and still has some cartridges inside it. Some folks are going to want the peace of mind of having a full, intact spare mag, even after the original, in-gun mag has been dumped.
Can I present a case for a civilian to carry three-plus total magazines? Absolutely. It starts with a disabled motor vehicle, perhaps due to a collision, while passing through a “bad” part of town. Other party uses a mobile phone to summon reinforcements, already being in the “bad” part of town, multiple reinforcements arrive quickly. So, one is on foot, on their turf, and may have to exfil, on foot, while “they” may well have motor vehicles.
The last time I was involved in a collision, it was in a “good” part of town, but the other driver’s reinforcements managed to arrived amazingly quickly. Fortunately, the other driver’s support person was just one person, who was a calming influence, and, the police unit arrived relatively quickly.
Another reason to have Multiple-reload capability: One cannot usually count the rounds fired, in the heat of the moment. One reloads at the first available opportunity. At the conclusion of that reload, if one has only brought one reload, one now has NO more reloads, unless the first mag can be recovered, and still has some cartridges inside it. Some folks are going to want the peace of mind of having a full, intact spare mag, even after the original, in-gun mag has been dumped.
But what happens if your LEFT is out of action. I don't understand you question.?
You carry a pistol in your left pocket and shoot with your weak head (left) or you cross drw and shoot with your right?? How do you coss daw a pistol from a left pocket with your right hand??
PS I carry my LCP all the time, Good 380 ammo is on par with 38 special.
I can not get the pistol out of a opposite pocket?
We ran some scenarios on a range, with a car and without. Practicing is key, and although you can't emulate a stressful situation 100% on the range, here is what I found:
1) I can't or don't count rounds, under stress. I have a vague idea that I have fired half of the magazine or most of the magazine, but I can't tell you how many rounds are left in the magazine. In a case like that, when there is a pause in the action,I ditch the magazine that is in the gun (there is a round in the chamber and it fires without the magazine) and I insert a fresh magazine. Whether I choose to fire any further rounds or not, that gun is ready for action.
2) There are certain circumstances where you may need to ditch the magazine that is in the gun. Damage to the magazine is one option, or some other unforeseen failure or problem. So if that happens, you may be grateful for having a spare magazine, because the rounds in the primary may not be available.
3) A loose magazine in a pocket is a bad idea. The magazines that I carried as spares were in my pocket in such a way that the base plate was snug over the top of the pocket lip. Not only that...both mags were oriented in such a way that the rounds were pointing left. This is so that the primary magazine in the gun can be ditched whilst the gun is still being presented and the backup magazine can be brought from the pocket to the gun, using the left hand, and inserted by feel. As the hand takes the magazine out of the pocket, it rotates the magazine into an upright position with the pad of the index finger finding the nose of the first round. This serves the dual purpose of pushing the round backwards fully into the magazine if it has come loose, and also being a palpable index point for presentation into the magwell. The whole purpose was to make a magazine change instinctively, without taking your eyes off the gun sights.
4) A partner may need a magazine (depending what the circumstances are).
The take away message I got from those courses is that spare magazines need to be carried in a reproducible manner in a way that makes their orientation predictable. In an ideal world that means mag pouches on a belt, but if you have to use a pocket at least make sure it is tight enough to achieve this goal so that the magazine can't rotate.
1) I can't or don't count rounds, under stress. I have a vague idea that I have fired half of the magazine or most of the magazine, but I can't tell you how many rounds are left in the magazine. In a case like that, when there is a pause in the action,I ditch the magazine that is in the gun (there is a round in the chamber and it fires without the magazine) and I insert a fresh magazine. Whether I choose to fire any further rounds or not, that gun is ready for action.
2) There are certain circumstances where you may need to ditch the magazine that is in the gun. Damage to the magazine is one option, or some other unforeseen failure or problem. So if that happens, you may be grateful for having a spare magazine, because the rounds in the primary may not be available.
3) A loose magazine in a pocket is a bad idea. The magazines that I carried as spares were in my pocket in such a way that the base plate was snug over the top of the pocket lip. Not only that...both mags were oriented in such a way that the rounds were pointing left. This is so that the primary magazine in the gun can be ditched whilst the gun is still being presented and the backup magazine can be brought from the pocket to the gun, using the left hand, and inserted by feel. As the hand takes the magazine out of the pocket, it rotates the magazine into an upright position with the pad of the index finger finding the nose of the first round. This serves the dual purpose of pushing the round backwards fully into the magazine if it has come loose, and also being a palpable index point for presentation into the magwell. The whole purpose was to make a magazine change instinctively, without taking your eyes off the gun sights.
4) A partner may need a magazine (depending what the circumstances are).
The take away message I got from those courses is that spare magazines need to be carried in a reproducible manner in a way that makes their orientation predictable. In an ideal world that means mag pouches on a belt, but if you have to use a pocket at least make sure it is tight enough to achieve this goal so that the magazine can't rotate.
yes, one of the drawbacks of my way of carry is that i cannot draw the pistol with my right hand (unless i dropped my drawers, i guess).
i am right handed. i shoot the 380 left handed. i could shoot it right handed, but that is not the intent. the pistol is in my left front pocket. the spare mags (two) used to both be in my right front pocket. i now carry one mag in my right front pocket and one in my left front pocket.
interesting you brought this up as my thinking was that it would be near impossible to get to my spare magazines if my right arm became useless. that is why i put one in my left pocket under the gun.
murf
JERRY
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I don't know if its been mentioned already, but your bigger concern over reloading with a pocket gun after one hand/arm becomes disabled, is accessing the gun in the pocket in the first place if your strong side arm/hand becomes disabled.
some people don't like appendix carry because they believe they will pull the trigger and shoot themselves in the junk. some people don't like open top friction fit holsters because they fear their gun will come out when they are doing gymnastics. some people don't like a pocket gun in both front pockets because where will they put their CAT tourniquet, chest seal, signal whistle, cigarette lighter, paracord, waterproof matches, and Israeli bandage.
manipulating your gun with one hand is a very good skill to learn if your strong side arm becomes disabled, but accessing it in the first place with a disabled strong side arm is something few people consider.
some people don't like appendix carry because they believe they will pull the trigger and shoot themselves in the junk. some people don't like open top friction fit holsters because they fear their gun will come out when they are doing gymnastics. some people don't like a pocket gun in both front pockets because where will they put their CAT tourniquet, chest seal, signal whistle, cigarette lighter, paracord, waterproof matches, and Israeli bandage.
manipulating your gun with one hand is a very good skill to learn if your strong side arm becomes disabled, but accessing it in the first place with a disabled strong side arm is something few people consider.
Buzznrose
Member
Fair enough.
I went back and reread your OP. You pocket carry a LCP in your left pocket and adjusted from carrying two mags in your right pocket to carrying one mag in each pocket. then you asked if there were issues with that.
Only thing I wonder and haven’t seen addressed is if you are using a pocket holster. If you are, it could hinder retrieving the mag if it is behind the holster. You’d definitely have to put the gun down if reaching for that left side mag because your right arm is inoperable. It would be a safety issue if you had to reach in for the mag unless the gun is empty...
YMMV. Take care,
Buzz
Those were your words, not mine; I was referencing what you said.
That said, I do not bet my life on a 380.
I can see that.
In the training I have had, my ability to reload while on the move without looking at the gun has been suspect. I've seen people do it instantly, but I would need many, many repetitions to get half that good.
For me, a second firearm is more effective. Faster.
Anything can happen, but I think a "pause in the action" in something like a parking lot attack would not likely be followed by a resumption.
I do not enter "bad" areas. Many people I know won't even enter our close major city. The Circuit Attorney won't prosecute thugs; she will prosecute police officers, and the officers know that; and crooks know that, and have little to deter them. They are mobile, but they know where it is safer to practice their trade.
That's all based on the way things have been. Things are changing.
All major trainers whom I know advise carrying an extra magazine--in order to clear malfunctions, and not so much for having more ammo. For me, a second gun works better for that.
It can also come in handy should someone jump into the passenger seat. That has happened.
There are all kinds of things that come carriers may not have yet considered. A self defense incident will likely not resemble we do at the square range. Good training will rectify some of that; dash cam and body video, still more; don't forget old The Best Defense episodes, which are based on real events.
I'll never tell anyone else what to carry or what not to, but I am always ready to challenge the reasoning of anyone. Had someone not done that for me, I would be worse off should anything unpleasant unfold.
Trunk Monkey
member
For the same reason most of us carry a gun at all.
The vast majority of people who carry a concealed handgun daily will never actually use it in self defense. We carry anyway in case we're part of "the 1%".
It's also a really good idea if (God forbid) you ever do have to use your gun in self-defense that as soon as the shooting stops you reload.
It's also the quickest way to fix most magazine related malfunctions.
There's a reason for that
I agree that as second firearm is faster, and generally does make more sense. I have, from time to time, said that my favorite speed-load for an SP101 is solid stainless steel, and made by Ruger, a second SP101. I have similar sentiments about my other weapons. 
Not meaning to be argumentative, but a generally “safe” inner-city part part of metro Houston, Texas, to include our small home city of Bellaire, is “land-locked” by depressed, seedy, dangerous areas. Every freeway, and most, if not all major surface streets, that leave the inner-loop area, pass through significant high-crime areas. One cannot reach either airport, from the inner-loop area, without passing through high-crime areas.
Here, “white flight” has been reversed, by gentrification.
We could move, but prefer to remain very near my wife’s cardiologist.
Not meaning to be argumentative, but a generally “safe” inner-city part part of metro Houston, Texas, to include our small home city of Bellaire, is “land-locked” by depressed, seedy, dangerous areas. Every freeway, and most, if not all major surface streets, that leave the inner-loop area, pass through significant high-crime areas. One cannot reach either airport, from the inner-loop area, without passing through high-crime areas.
Here, “white flight” has been reversed, by gentrification.
We could move, but prefer to remain very near my wife’s cardiologist.
Trunk Monkey
member
Then you practice until it does
Ohen Cepel
Member
Make sure you have the mags in something to hold them in a consistent position as well as helping to keep dirt out of them. If not, clean them frequently or you may get jammed up by a "dust bunny" in the mag.
Grabbing a mag upside down and backwards in a stress situation is not good. Especially, if it is a small single stack.
Grabbing a mag upside down and backwards in a stress situation is not good. Especially, if it is a small single stack.
fastbolt
Member
Deflection on your part, to a legitimate question.
Trunk Monkey
member
CDW is constantly talking about "having the gun preferred in hand." TBPH I always thought it was kind of dumb.
Then I got to thinking about it in the context of my life.
I walked out my front door one night and two Crackheads tried rob me. That incident became a benchmark in my life.
I look at gun and I ask myself "would I want that gun in my hands if I had to do that again?"
A .380 pocket pistol isn't that.
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fastbolt
Member
Okay, I've spent a fair share of years, as a working cop and a LE firearms instructor/trainer, learning how cops may have to reload in an on/off-duty OIS incident.
I've also observed cops qualifying and training on our range over the course of many years, as well as at some outside agency ranges (outside training classes) ... as well as having watched private citizens having to qualify on a range for courses-of-fire (think CCW licensees) for a much briefer period, meaning over the course of approx only 10 years.
While it's common to expect the "average" cop to be able to reload within a reasonable period of time (4-5secs is often an allowable max time limit), that's when they know they're going to have to reload, and they haven't been injured ... and "threats" aren't really shooting at them ... and the magazines are nicely positioned in the belt carriers.
I've seen cops get a bit rattled when a new demanding course-of-fire is introduced, and they have to hit it "cold", without prep or practice. I've watched more of them than you might expect mistakenly grab a mini light or folding knife off their belt, instead of a fresh magazine. I've also watched many a fresh magazine suddenly get "loose" from a shooter's desperate grip, and go tumbling in the sunshine, or into the darkness not covered by overhead range lights on a night range.
There have been times when I thought I might almost be able to get some coffee and come back while waiting for some private citizens to complete a reload of their pistol or revolver. And again, this was under ideal conditions, where the shooters had been able to carefully prep for the reload they knew was coming ... and they were working under known safe conditions (as safe as you can reasonably strive to make it when running a line of shooters) ... and uninjured, without anyone trying to kill them.
Want to really see what happens when a sudden "injury" is experienced? Try to find and sign up for a properly organized and supervised Simunitions (or UTM) training munitions class is offered for private citizens. Things happen very quickly. The first time I had to attend one, I had to resolve a double-feed (low powered training dye-marking munition causing the stoppage), while moving out of the way of incoming rounds, rolling around on a floor, underneath a table ... and get my weapon firing on an approaching attacker within a couple of seconds of elapsed time. If I'd not have invested so many years of training for problems on my home agency range, at the insistence of the head instructor (a real task master), I'd very likely not have "survived" that first force-on-force training scenario without having been "shot". Lessons learned and utilized. I thanked him upon my return, and then really doubled down on my training.
I generally carry a spare magazine or a spare speedstrip when carrying a retirement pistol or revolver, just like I did when working in my LE career, meaning both on and off-duty. That's how I trained.
However, now that I'm retired I don't always carry a spare magazine (even though I know the most likely reason to need a spare mag is to resolve a mag-related stoppage or mag problem).
I'm going about my daily activities in a significantly less risky set of circumstances and environments. By opportunity and choice. Nobody is constantly dispatching me to known, or reported/suspected, dangerous occurrences. Nor am I managing a work caseload that will put me in risky situations every few minutes, or at least hourly. I get to choose where I go for my retirement activities, and I've had some years of learning how to assess exposure to potential risks and threat environments. You can choose for yourself, and I can do so for myself.
Now, one of the retirement weapons I often carry (pocket-holstered) is a Ruger LCP. I own a blued one (Post recall) and a stainless one (slide) with the improved trigger and differently shaped fixed sights. I've used both for my fair share of range use for drills and qualifications.
Aside from the usual requirements for learning to effectively, safely and controllably run a diminutive pistol for defense use, the first thing I learned about the short-gripped LCP is that loading a magazine and chambering a round is not going to happen fast. Diminutive pistol. Not as quickly as when I'm able to run a full-size, compact or subcompact pistol, or one of my J-frames. (This, from someone who thought that a 4 or 5 sec maximum time limit for reloading under range-induced training or qual course-of-fire stress was generously twice as long as could be done by someone who practiced to meet more than the minimum standard of competency. ) Manipulating the LCP for loading requires getting your hands out of the way, as much as properly manipulating the little gun. The LCP II offers a slide hold-open feature on the last shot, which is handy, compared to the standard LCP.
That said, I seldom carry a spare magazine for my LCP. Then again, I often choose one of my LCP's when I plan to be in places where I don't anticipate the need to be armed.
One of the more common "sayings" that can be heard among instructor circles is that you'll more likely run out of time, before you run out of ammunition. I prefer to train as if those first shot, or first 5 or 6 shots, fried before reloading might be all the shots I'll have time and ability to fire ... because that might be the case.
Sure, I'll continue to carry an extra speedstrip or two for my 5-shot snubs (because I can, and I've invested years of practice for loading revolvers), as well as an extra mag (or 2) for my pistols that are larger than the LCP's. Again, many years have been invested in training and practicing to load the full-size, compact and subcompact pistols I've owned, used and carried. Acquired "first nature" habit (when "second nature" might not be good enough. ).
I used to hear some younger firearms instructors talk about being able to reload during a "lull" in a gunfight. While you can find some OIS incidents where a prolonged period was involved in shots being exchanged between a cop and his/her attacker(s), the significant greater numbers of them (discussed in debriefs, and for examples presented in training conferences) didn't contain anything that might be considered as a "lull" in the gunfight. If you can't get the results you may desperately need to achieve in your first magazine (or cylinder) load ... your attacker just might do so.
Just some thoughts.
Also, sometimes learning training techniques is best done under the watchful eyes of an experienced instructor (hence, classes attended). Not only to point out mistakes or make helpful hints in performance of techniques being taught and practiced, but to discuss safe ways to continue practicing what you've learned when you go home.
I've also observed cops qualifying and training on our range over the course of many years, as well as at some outside agency ranges (outside training classes) ... as well as having watched private citizens having to qualify on a range for courses-of-fire (think CCW licensees) for a much briefer period, meaning over the course of approx only 10 years.
While it's common to expect the "average" cop to be able to reload within a reasonable period of time (4-5secs is often an allowable max time limit), that's when they know they're going to have to reload, and they haven't been injured ... and "threats" aren't really shooting at them ... and the magazines are nicely positioned in the belt carriers.
I've seen cops get a bit rattled when a new demanding course-of-fire is introduced, and they have to hit it "cold", without prep or practice. I've watched more of them than you might expect mistakenly grab a mini light or folding knife off their belt, instead of a fresh magazine. I've also watched many a fresh magazine suddenly get "loose" from a shooter's desperate grip, and go tumbling in the sunshine, or into the darkness not covered by overhead range lights on a night range.
There have been times when I thought I might almost be able to get some coffee and come back while waiting for some private citizens to complete a reload of their pistol or revolver. And again, this was under ideal conditions, where the shooters had been able to carefully prep for the reload they knew was coming ... and they were working under known safe conditions (as safe as you can reasonably strive to make it when running a line of shooters) ... and uninjured, without anyone trying to kill them.
Want to really see what happens when a sudden "injury" is experienced? Try to find and sign up for a properly organized and supervised Simunitions (or UTM) training munitions class is offered for private citizens. Things happen very quickly. The first time I had to attend one, I had to resolve a double-feed (low powered training dye-marking munition causing the stoppage), while moving out of the way of incoming rounds, rolling around on a floor, underneath a table ... and get my weapon firing on an approaching attacker within a couple of seconds of elapsed time. If I'd not have invested so many years of training for problems on my home agency range, at the insistence of the head instructor (a real task master), I'd very likely not have "survived" that first force-on-force training scenario without having been "shot". Lessons learned and utilized. I thanked him upon my return, and then really doubled down on my training.
I generally carry a spare magazine or a spare speedstrip when carrying a retirement pistol or revolver, just like I did when working in my LE career, meaning both on and off-duty. That's how I trained.
However, now that I'm retired I don't always carry a spare magazine (even though I know the most likely reason to need a spare mag is to resolve a mag-related stoppage or mag problem).
I'm going about my daily activities in a significantly less risky set of circumstances and environments. By opportunity and choice. Nobody is constantly dispatching me to known, or reported/suspected, dangerous occurrences. Nor am I managing a work caseload that will put me in risky situations every few minutes, or at least hourly. I get to choose where I go for my retirement activities, and I've had some years of learning how to assess exposure to potential risks and threat environments. You can choose for yourself, and I can do so for myself.
Now, one of the retirement weapons I often carry (pocket-holstered) is a Ruger LCP. I own a blued one (Post recall) and a stainless one (slide) with the improved trigger and differently shaped fixed sights. I've used both for my fair share of range use for drills and qualifications.
Aside from the usual requirements for learning to effectively, safely and controllably run a diminutive pistol for defense use, the first thing I learned about the short-gripped LCP is that loading a magazine and chambering a round is not going to happen fast. Diminutive pistol. Not as quickly as when I'm able to run a full-size, compact or subcompact pistol, or one of my J-frames. (This, from someone who thought that a 4 or 5 sec maximum time limit for reloading under range-induced training or qual course-of-fire stress was generously twice as long as could be done by someone who practiced to meet more than the minimum standard of competency.
) Manipulating the LCP for loading requires getting your hands out of the way, as much as properly manipulating the little gun. The LCP II offers a slide hold-open feature on the last shot, which is handy, compared to the standard LCP.That said, I seldom carry a spare magazine for my LCP. Then again, I often choose one of my LCP's when I plan to be in places where I don't anticipate the need to be armed.
One of the more common "sayings" that can be heard among instructor circles is that you'll more likely run out of time, before you run out of ammunition. I prefer to train as if those first shot, or first 5 or 6 shots, fried before reloading might be all the shots I'll have time and ability to fire ... because that might be the case.
Sure, I'll continue to carry an extra speedstrip or two for my 5-shot snubs (because I can, and I've invested years of practice for loading revolvers), as well as an extra mag (or 2) for my pistols that are larger than the LCP's. Again, many years have been invested in training and practicing to load the full-size, compact and subcompact pistols I've owned, used and carried. Acquired "first nature" habit (when "second nature" might not be good enough.
).I used to hear some younger firearms instructors talk about being able to reload during a "lull" in a gunfight. While you can find some OIS incidents where a prolonged period was involved in shots being exchanged between a cop and his/her attacker(s), the significant greater numbers of them (discussed in debriefs, and for examples presented in training conferences) didn't contain anything that might be considered as a "lull" in the gunfight. If you can't get the results you may desperately need to achieve in your first magazine (or cylinder) load ... your attacker just might do so.
Just some thoughts.
Also, sometimes learning training techniques is best done under the watchful eyes of an experienced instructor (hence, classes attended). Not only to point out mistakes or make helpful hints in performance of techniques being taught and practiced, but to discuss safe ways to continue practicing what you've learned when you go home.
not to this thread.
murf
edit to add: i don't think the number of magazines is important, although at least one is very important in my case, and think the question is legitimate on its own merit.
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yes, the lcp is in a soft holster. i have been dry practicing a bit on reloading left/weak handed only; the gun goes between my knees mag well up/out, empty holster is pulled out of the left pocket, the mag in the bottom of my left pocket is pulled out with the left hand, positioned correctly and inserted into the pistol mag well. i haven't practiced racking the slide on my belt or shoe yet. that is next.
thx for the info,
murf
A legitimate question, but I'll point out again, you're far more likely to encounter a need to get the gun out with your support/non-dominant hand than you are to need to reload with that hand. With that in mind, you'd be better off spending the time figuring out a carry method that allows access to the gun, rather than magazines, with either hand.
the lcp is always in my left pocket. i also carry my glock 19 owb @ 4:00, but not always.
thx for the insight,
murf
DT Guy
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Three active shooters in a locked-down office shooting on the move; difficult to hit, thus frequent misses, even from cover. Unable to disengage and retreat because there are a number of unarmed innocents behind you.
That took as long to hypothesize as it did to type it, and I can come up with about ten more just as quickly. You don't necessarily get the *average* gunfight; you get what you get.
Larry
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