My S & W Model 10 project

[BCRider]

Brownells sells a piloted muzzle crowning cutter. Otherwise the only way to ensure a true crown is to somehow chuck your gun into a lathe and get it spinning after truing up the bore so it is as inline to the lathe's head axis as possible using a dial guage.

You need to figure out how to line up and install the sight mount cuts as well.

Or if you know someone that can do lathe work it would be possible to make a piloted muzzle crown cutter as well. O-1 tool steel drill rod comes annealed. It can be machined into a cutter and then hardened and tempered prior to use.

 

[Oyeboten]

Hi BCRider,



You'd mentioned -

Your last picture has this project looking really nice. The skinny grips you show on it don't fit MY hand worth a darn but if they do it for you then that's what matters.

We'll see...


Lol...

At least they are deeper than the traditional S & W 'Round Butt' which I like very much, but, which is a little small for me.

In support of leaving the trigger guard alone the bit in one of the posts above about the possibility of using your revolver as an impromptu set of brass/steel knuckles should not be overlooked if this is to be eventually an SD firearm.

It would never occur to me to use it as a Bludgeon in that position...though I had vaguely sort of thought about modifying the bottom of the Butt in emulation of the lovely old Merwin and Hulbert .44 WCF 'Pocket Army' Model Grip, sometimes refered to as 'The Skull Crusher'...


I'm open minded on that...


This could be done with some judicious Welding, and filing...


As -





But, probably, if one were to do that, then, one would do well to forsake the open Bow...and or, it's a nice entiement for a future, and different project for yet another variation on the Model 10 theme...

But mostly to my mind having the exposed trigger is my big concern. SOME of this could be handled by covering the hammer with your thumb while holstering in case the trigger hooks something and you feel the hammer beginning to cock. But with all the adrenaline following a "situation" it would be just way too easy to forget this part and go to holster it and end up with a nasty self wound.

I'm long since used to respectful habits with an open Bow...so, no worries...

Besides, it just looks SOOOO right the way you show it in your picture above.

Thank you...

I agree...it's really quite handsome and enjoys smooth-lines there...it's a nice form, aesthetically...and, I would have been happy doing nothing farther, had I not intended to go farther...so...oh well...

...the intention...the plan, and, the follow-through...and, the follow-through, continues...

If you haven't got one for it already may I suggest a Wolff spring kit? Fantastic product. I've used it in both my S&W revolvers and they both improved by more than I ever expected. For my own range only use I went with the softest of the three trigger return springs and even then cut off a coil and a half. Nice light and easy to use double action was the result. Just gotta keep the insides clean. But since mine are range only Prima Donas keeping them clean is not an issue. Under a steady diet of pocket lint you may want to consider the medium weight return spring.

Sure...why not!


I will try it.


Thanks!


Phil
Las Vegas

 

[Oyeboten]

Improvised a little Mandril and Cutter, and got the Muzzle rounded...if with a fine 'chatter' texture...





Concluded the re-finishing of the re-formed Stocks...and, mocked-up, here's the present appearence...






I might just clean things up, re-assemble, and go to the Range tomorrow, and try it out...


Not sure I even want a front Sight...but we'll see...

 

[Lovesbeer99]

ping - i need to save this to keep track. I'm very interested.

 

[Oyeboten]

I received this Revolver last Saturday, and, being Thursday night now, though I had not kept notes on total hours elapsed, nor spent in solving various issues or problems or Tooling, I'd guess all tolled, hand grinding the old Counterbore and so on for the Muzzle Grinding, I'm into this about five or six hours, and, I am by no means experienced in any Gun Smithing operations, if being a Cabinetmaker who manages and maintains his own Machines and other Wood Working Tools.


Dismantling the Mechanism, and studying the Parts and their movements, I was able to effect a correct remediation of the prior 'hard' release the Cylinder was suffering, and, seeing and feeling some very tiny burrs on the Trigger Body and Trigger Return Spring Body, and some slight roughness in the Frame where the latter slides, I ammended these easily, rubbing the Parts on Oiled 320 Silicon Carbide Paper on a flat surface, which probably took fifteen seonds each...and, slipping a slender section of the same paper, under the Trigger Return Spring Body so the paper would move with it whileall other parts were removed, thus smoothing flatly the milled-out por tion of the Frame which had some roughness previously...and the 'gritty' sense of Double Action it had when I got it, now, feels very smooth if not 'Buttery' even.


I had an old beat up pair of what I took to be 'Victory' Model Stocks, and reforming them for the Grip shape was forthright, if of course being familiar and used to Wood Working procedures.


Pistol is cleaned, assembled and well Oiled now, pending a trip to the Range tomorrow, other obliges permitting.


I'd like to have a Front Sight, but do not feel amenible to dovetailing and fitting one by that means, so...hmmmm...


Trigger Bow alleviation is pending how things seem 'as-is'...and or I will try some Riding Gloves and see.


May Checker the fore and back Straps...may make from scratch, a different set of Stocks having some high rear area in effect widening the reach to the Trigger...we'll see...


Anyway, the 'before' -




And, the present Range ready stage, where things stand now -




Fun...


Phil

 

[BCRider]

For next time the correct spelling is "mandrel". Sorry but as a metal machining hobbyist I couldn't help myself... Actually if the mandrel was a stub that fit down into the barrel opening to ensure proper centering alignment the better term is "pilot". Then us machinists will know what you are on about.

In the meantime a bit of work with emery cloth or wetordry sandpaper should smoothen out the cutter chatter without introducing enough off center wear to affect the crowning.

Also I would not sweat the front sight at least for now. Go with it as it is now and think about how to best add a front sight if you find you're missing having one.

You've created a unique, even if influenced by historical examples, gun for this time. Try it out to see how it suits you and make changes based on your own experience since this is obviously a personal gun for personal use.

Regardless of opinions on your selections I'm seeing some nice workmanship here. For that at least you deserve much credit.

 

[Oyeboten]

Thanks BCRider,



Yes, a centering 'pilot' and not a 'Mandril'...quite so...


This has been fun, a good learning experience, and, the length now is well suited for so-called Mexican Carry, or, for IWB in a light Holster, and if in my Waist, either way, in the right front, just shy of my Hip Bone, does not impede sitting or tieing a Shoe...


Very likable...


A front sight seems wanting for my being used to expecting one to be there...but, of course, is not likely to be of any use in those hasty and less than ten yards distances, usually associated with urgent defensive exigencies.


My original thought, was for a practical IWB successor or alternate, to the little front Pants 'Pocket' Model 'Fitzed' S & W Model 36 I've carried virtually every day for twenty years.


I'll either try my hand at making an IWB Holster, and or, make a thin, narrow, 'Clip' which screws into the ample thickness of the Side Plate...alleviating the need for a Holster.



Phil
l v

 

[Oyeboten]

Could not make the Range today...but, after dinner, grabbed an old thick Washer, Hack-Sawed out a wedge, Filed it down, and made a prospective Front Sight... I'd be happy with this, but have not figured out a way to attach it...

Any ideas ?


I'd hate to wreck the mellow Holster Wear Blue by the Heat of Silver Soldering it on...


Spot Welding?

 

[RatDrall]

Very cool!

Hope for those who want a 3" K frame for carry, but only have 4" guns available?

 

[EMC45]

Super cool project! Keep the trigger guard is my opinion. I like everything so far! The round butt and the half round front sight reminds me of turn of the century guns!

 

[Eightball]

I would recommend against the "fitz" modification, for many of the reasons above. And the obviously "hacked" muzzle makes me want to cry. However, if you send it somewhere to get it crowned correctly and a good front sight installed, that problem goes away.

I'll keep an eye on this here thread.

 

[steveracer]

I like the half-moon sight very much, and it looks right at home there. The crown needs re-cut, but that's just a matter of having the tool to do it. Takes a few minutes.
I would leave the trigger guard myself, but otherwise, you've got a great handgun there! I think the 3" guns are the cat's ass in the moonlight.
Steve

 

[EMC45]

My opinion- Get a nice brass stove bolt from the hardware cover it with a lapping compound and run it in a drill to smooth out the muzzle edge. Also "break" the sharp edges on the barrel outside with a file and emery cloth. Cold blue and you're in business. Really like the look of the grips and the round front sight. Looks like an old top break.

 

[Oyeboten]

Oh...I rounded off the edges of the newly re-Crowned Muzzle...just had not done so yet in the last images.

It has the same roundness as the original Fatory Crown had.

This is a sort of 'Dough-Nut' shaped Crown, so, lapping with a flat or convex item would not work.


I kind of like the 'chatter' marks myself...they resemble an expanded-flattened Lead Bullet.


Decided I'll try and find a sympathetic Machinist, ( oye, I hate trusting a anybody with anything, even when I can stand there and watch to try and make sure they do not screw things up, ) and have him make a regular, mundane, common, easy-enough, 90 degree - vertical and true ) small Woodruff Key cut for a new Front Sight to nestle into...and I'll make a new same upper shape Sight then, with a smaller rounded bottom for sitting in that cut...then I'll Silver Solder that into place.


If I can find a local Gunsmith to do it, that'd be even better, probably, since at least he'd probably understand it needs to be centered, the cut needs to be vertical, and to secure the Frame for the procedure without damaging it in a naked Vice and so on.


Wish me luck..!



Phil

 

[Leadbutt]

Like the set up so far, leave the guard alone, the cut out was designed for quick use out of a pocket, hell I shot Col.Askins' colt enough to know.

Front sight looks nice but with my old eyes now I would cut a spot for a Big Dot.

 

[revolverman357]

For a front sight, might I suggest a brass bead. Drill and tap the barrel and screw it in. It might look cool.

 

[BCRider]

This is where my newbiness to guns comes in. But how was the original front site mounted on these old 10's? Is there no way to duplicate that method without destroying the blueing?

 

[Oyeboten]

Hi bc,



If I had to guess...the Ramp Sight originally on the Barrel, appears to have been an interference fit, pressed in to a groove...but, I have not removed it to find out for sure. But is seems to be added and not machined intregral with the Heavy Barrel.


Prior 'M&P' Models, (or possibly Pencil Barrel Model 10s? But I don't have one to examine...) the Front Sight was part of the Barrel, integral, and not added...though people sometimes for shortening the Barrels on the earlier M&Ps, would cut off the Sight, shorten it and fit it's base to the Barrel's roundness, and Silver Solder it on where needed.


Possibly I could do an interference fit, once having a Woodruff Key type Slot made...where, the Front Sight I would make, could be a very very tight fit, pressed in, and, finessed then for any dents it got for it...but, I'd have to use a harder Steel than the old Washer probably...to have it stay put by that method.


I do feel decided on this size and shape and width Sight, though no doubt other options would be practical, handsome or meritorious also.


Thanks for your question.


I usually brood a great deal before doing any irreversible things on anything, and, your question reminded me of the interferene fit possibility, which I had not been considering...


Usually, such a fit, has to be very dimensionally precise and true...unlike the relatively forgiving nature of Silver Soldering...but, it'd be worth the extra troubles to avoid harming the presently mellow-holster-wear Blue.


Then again too...once all is said and done, who knows, maybe it'd be fun to send it off to S & W for a nice Factory re-blue, and thus for it to begin anew, in it's new form.

Other than some very very light scratches on the Cylinder, and the 'in-the-white' area of the lower rear Grip area where I had removed Steel, the overall surfaces are very nice and would need only a very little Buffing on the Cylinder and Bakstrap, if a re-blue were to be done.


If I could anneal the Trigger and Hammer, I'd Checker the Hammer top, and, cross-hatch the vertical grooves of the Trigger...and either re-harden them, or, have it done....but I do not know if the Alloy of these parts admits this...I'll find out...




Phil
l v

 

[FEG63ISFINE]

Oyeboten this is a cool thing your doing.

I'm Laid off for now and I think I'm going to start trying to find me an old used gun and give it a shoot because I have the time on my hands, looks really good so far.

I've been out of the loop with handguns for about 8 years after I lost a son. I've just now started to get back into collecting and shooting so anybody feel free to help me out here with a couple of questions. What does IWB mean is it "Inside-the- Waistband"? And don't you need to crown the barrel after cutting?

 

[FEG63ISFINE]

To early in the morning I guess, I didn't see the second page so the 2nd page answered my second question.
It's really shaping up Phil, looks good.

 

[FEG63ISFINE]

Oyeboten this is a cool thing your doing.

I'm Laid off for now and I think I'm going to start trying to find me an old used gun and give it a shoot because I have the time on my hands, looks really good so far.

I've been out of the loop with handguns for about 8 years after I lost a son. I've just now started to get back into collecting and shooting so anybody feel free to help me out here with a couple of questions. What does IWB mean is it "Inside-the- Waistband"? And don't you need to crown the barrel after cutting?

 

[Old Fuff]

Concerning the front sight:

The easy and best way on a ribbed heavy barrel (as opposed to the older "pencil" kind) is to cut a dovetail in the front, similar to what is done to the slide on some pistols. A new front sight can be driven into the dovetail, and moved to zero windage to the point of impact for your choice of load. The blade can be cut down to bring the group to the point-of-aim for elevation.

Fixed sights have no disadvantage over adjustable ones if they are zeroed.

The hammer and trigger are made of low-carbon (soft) steel and then case hardened. Thus the "hardness" is only skin deep. On a revolver intended to be fired double-action I find it better to polish the serrations off and then round the face. As you pull the trigger your finger can slide across the surface, which is the opposite of what you do when shooting single-action.

If you bob the hammer it is better to remove the single action notch from the hammer. Should you get the hammer cocked, and have it slip when lowering it while the trigger is still being held to the back, you will get an unexpected BANG!

"The" objection to Fitz modifications concern the cut-away trigger guard, and come from people with no experience nor knowledge of why this was done. Those that know just smile at what they read or hear. For its intended purpose (a revolver carried in the pants side pocket) the system had both a purpose and offered advantages. Some of the people that used or advocated it read like a who's who of real-life gunfighters of the 1920's through the 1950's. There is a problem with S&W revolvers though, because the cylinder stop spring (or spring and plunger in older guns) is nested at the top/front of the trigger guard, and you have to be very carefully how much metal you cut away. You may in this case, prefer Bill Jordan's method of slimming the guard at the front, and doing this will also make the know-it-all's feel more warm and fuzzy.

 

[ironvic]

I agree with the others who want to see that trigger guard intact. That said, your piece is turning out nicely. My eyes are getting older and if it was mine (I'm scoping out a beat up 4" .357 stainless K-Frame at the pawnshop now), I think I'd try keyholing an orange insert into the front sight blade for added visibility. I'm thinking of going with a 2" barrel, rounded trigger face, bobbed hammer, round butt conversion, then polish her shiney bright for maximum "pimpeyness".

I really like what you're doing with that old 'Smith.

 

[Oyeboten]

Hi FEG631SFINE,


I did two similar projects in 1989, which were my first 'Hasty Puddings', and like you, had been out of Target Shooting and out of re-loading acivities for about 20 years now.

I really loved these things, but, family and other responsibilities, and slim dough left after bills and expenses, had overfilled my days and my head.


Now, I have some latitude, but not much! just 'some'...


Anyway, this little project has been fun, interesting, educational, and very satisfying, and I'm glad I took the plunge.

It has also helped to continue to pave the way for other projects, of course.


I've carried a little S & W Model 36 I'd modified in 1989, virtually every day for 20 years now. It's been through Pocket 'Hell', believe me.


And, some of my interest to do this project, was to have a somewhat larger Revolver suited for IWB, instead of 'Pocket', since this one is too long for any Pants pockets I have...though, of course, one can have a Seamstress replace usual front trouser Pockets, with deeper sturdier ones.

 

[SeanSw]

I think this is a classy homebrew project on a suitable revolver. 3" k frames look and feel well balanced. However, I think cutting the trigger guard is decidedly not classy and should not be done under any circumstances