My S & W Model 10 project

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Hi Old Fluff,



Thanks for your good mentions.


Front Sight wise, I'd considered the cross Dovetail, but I want a very simple, clean, spartan way about the whole thing...so, it'll be a Half-Round sight, set into a small blind Woodruff Key sort of groove, about as if it grew there.



Any Journeyman Machinist, a Woodruff Key type round-bottom Cut should take all of five or ten minutes I'd think...so, just a matter of finding a sympathetic Machinist who will be particular in his care and set-up.


And..."Yup"...I agree of course...( regarding an 'open' Bow...) if with respect for the feelings or concerns of anyone not favoring it.


Hmmmmmm...I feel interested in the smooth Trigger you mentioned...I'll think about that...might do that...




Phil
 
Grind off the serrations on the trigger face. I have done about 5 wheel guns this way and it will lighten your perceived trigger pull. It will make you trigger finger movement smoother, which will feel lighter.
 
you're in luck...

if you are interested, you can get a 3" barrel from NUMRICH gun parts. they have the others too. you can rebuild the whole gun with NUMRICH. it would be like new!:evil:
 
Old Fuff raises another possibility. Is the barrel wall thick enough to allow for a small dovetail being cut across? Something about 1/4 to 5/16 inch wide at the base and perhaps .050 deep? Such would be in keeping with some of the front sight dovetails I've got on my own guns and allow you to make up a mild steel front sight with common hand tools and careful fitting. Even cutting the dovetail can be done by hand using small fine cut files and a quickly made up one time use filing jig. Give me some time to come up with a quick CAD sketch of what I'm thinking about if this intrests you. After all it would seem that if there's room to cut a rounded woodruff key slot that there's room for a dovetail. The shape for the sight blade you cut from the washer looks sweet. Ramped and rounded so it won't catch on a pocket or holster. And it would not be hard to use a fine cut file to add a non glare very fine stair step to the rear of the sight blade. Gilding the lily in this case? Perhaps but it would not be all that hard to do if you're going to go to the trouble of doing a dovetail and make a matching dovetail sight blade. The great part is that with the jig to more or less guarantee accuracy you'd get "milling machine" accuracy from a hand tool solution. The accuracy would come from the filing jig but the best part is that any small errors in making up the jig would be reduced by the scale factor of the two to where the errors would be all but unnoticable.

EDIT, I came back too late after some yard and shop work with my answer and see that you'd already addressed these points. I'll leave them as food for thought though. I have to admit that a pressed in blade WOULD look a lot cleaner even if it does require aid from a machinist. Fitting the blade is something you can do yourself with care, a sharpening stone to ease the fit to the correct pressure, a micrometer or vernier to keep track of the thickness and correct any taper and the willingness to chuck it and start again with a new bit of washer fragment if you go too far and it's too soft a fit.

All my recomendations to leave the trigger guard are based as much or more on the look of the gun than a shift in functionality. Although I do believe quite strongly that extra attention to slipping it down into pockets and holsters would be required due to the possibility of hooking the trigger or having the pants or holster slip between the trigger and remains of the frame. But simply folding your fingers over the trigger as you lower it into the pocket or holster would obviously take care of that. Its just mostly about the looks to me I have to admit.... But your gun your nickel. Do what you will to get it to do the job you're after. If thy guard offends thee then slice it off :D
 
Oyeboten I like the site snag free in and out on a draw.

I always wanted a 3" K frame but never pick one up. After reading you post I remembered the M12-2 I had and that's when I started dreaming of the 3" K in the mid 90's.

It's good to get back into the ole sport again, Thanks.
 
Well, you know...one thing I am enjoying about this little project, and about this Thread, is that at any and every step or phase, with the insight and ideas and past experience of various Posters, it makes it better to imagine and see, how there's various ways it could go, various versions a Pistol like this could become.


Just Bobbing the Hammer nicely, and nothing else, would make a very nice change from the Basic, 4 inch Heavy Barrel Model, as it was.

Bobbing the Hammer, and, fitting new or special Stocks of some kind...similarly...

Changing the Grip shape in any of various ways, and making from scratch or modifying existing Stocks to fit...

Various kinds of Sights...Triggers...Checkering or not Checkering various areas or areas of parts...


Barrel swaps, Barrel shortening...


On and on...


To even begin to do justice to the potential of a basic Model 10 for light to medium modifications, one could do a dozen different versions, and still have room for a dozen more permutations or combination of features..! And even then, there'd be room for more.


Good fun...good learning...


Anyway, stole off to the Range for a little while and tried it out.


Shoots very nicely, very smooth and positive, and feels good in the Hand.


The way the Rocky-Earthen backdrop was, I did not feel it'd be prudent for trying any point shooting or from-the-hip things, for fear the Bullet's would glance on the incline of rocks and so on, and hitting a lot higher up, and maybe keep on going...so, I just did regular eye-level Target stance things, which let the Bullets hit lower into the embankment and at less of an acute angle.


My 'group' was rather uhhhhh, diffuse...Lol...even quasi-sighting along the Barrel side...


So...I'm liking the Front Sight prospect even more now...( Lol...)


If I can find what I feel is a safe-for-distal-others part of the Range for point Shooting, I'll be on that, for sure...



Phil
l v
 
"Diffuse" I like that term. I'll save that away for the right time in the future.... :D

I'm going to try the point shooting thing from about 10 yards and see just how bad it can be. I'll start with a .22 just to keep it cheap and if things seem to be promising I'll have a go with the 9mm and perhaps the model 19.

After all Bogey shot from the bent elbow/level forearm pose and even pushed the gun ahead to add a bit of speed to those lazy .38's or whatever they were in Casablanca.... :D
 
I didn't make myself too clear... :confused:

After installing a dovetailed front sight and moving it to get an exact point-of-aim/point-of-impact relationship the wings on the base of the sight are filed to match the contour of the rib. It does require refinishing (unless you are working with stainless steel) but the sight is no more obtrusive then if it's a blade fitted into a key slot. Smith & Wesson's own Performance Center has used this method. The advantage is that you can zero the revolver for windage. Can’t do that with a blade fitted into a slot. :scrutiny:
 
Hi BCRider,


I was married to a tallish Target Stand out there, and a low one would have been fine I think for hip or point Shooting...but the stand I had, well, the angle at ten yards, would put a hip-fired Bullet a little too upward for prudence. Wooden pole Stand, so, didn't want to harm it with taping a Target on low, and the ground there is very defletive also...hard rocky Earth.


I try and bear these things in mind when out there...and hope others do too.


Still, one hears 'zingers' anyway...oye...


Anyway...I tried some +Ps, some old 'Silvertips' and some standard 158grn Police Loads, all felt nice, the Revolver has a nice weight for any of those rounds.


I have an untouched 4 inch, Heavy Barrel Model 10, Square Butt, same as this one used to be, brought it and fired a few to compare...and of the two, my now 3-1/8th inch Round Butt, feels more natural and easy of the two.



Phil
 
Hi Old Fluff,



Oh, I'd understood the elegance of the Sight method-type you were describing, and it's finished form once zero'd in...even if some of it was between the lines, so, your further clearification is good if anyone had not.


That is definitely the politest Old Time Religion there, front Sight wise...and if I were going to have a long Barrel, or an extra-long Barrel ( don't laugh, a future project just might be so! ) I'd do it that way definitely.



Mine's such a stubulator...not a 'Snubby'...but a 'Stubby'...Lol...




Phil
 
Diffusion

You've got a big set, Oyeboten, a really big set! I could never muster the courage to begin a project like this, and for that I admire you. Every time I set out to buy an old Model 10 or similar revolver for tinkering, I somehow wind up finding a new-in-the-box gun for just a few dollars more, and buy it. Too nice to tinker with, for my clumsy hands.

So in the meantime, I'll have to mess with my guns vicariously through your thread, and I appreciate your sharing this project.

I, too, shoot "diffusely."
 
Hi SleazyRider,



I had the same problem...I won an old 'beater' Model 10-6, 4 inch, Heavy Barrel, on Gunbroker...it arrived, and by gosh if it was not so nice, so 'minty' so virtually pristine, I did not have the Heart to do the deeds.


What the heck??? It looked like it had lots of wear and scrapes in the images!!! Ohhhhh, yeeeeeeeesh...


So, weeks, months, slowly pass as I kept looking...Gunshows, Auctionarms, Gunbroker, finally find another 'worn' one for a nreasonable starting bid...wrote the seller, asking "IS this REALLY fairly well worn???" - he said "Yes"...and, I won, sent the dough, it arrived...and, it too was WAY way nicer than it looked in the Auction listing!

...sigh...probably 93 percent Blue, no scratches, no dings, light Holster wear only on Muzzle end and Cylinder high-flute areas, hardly a whisp of 'Halo' on the Recoil Plate...but, was j-u-s-t 'worn' enough to be an ethically viable candidate, compared to a 'nicer' one...so...finally...yeeeeeesh!


How silly of us!!!


If one intends to make it one's own...who cares????

Who cares if it's a 98 percent Blue and hardly ever fired?



Ohhhh, funny stuff...


Oye...


So...I know...I have the same affliction.



Anyhoooo...Smoothed the Trigger of it's factory serrations, fine polishing pending...finessed the rear of the Hammer some more...and...dropped the Frame-Barrel off at a grumpy, taciturn, sole-proprietor Machinist, who tersely said "...pick it up tomorrow, around Noon.." as for getting the 'Woodruff Key' Slot cut into the front top of the Barrel, for me to then make and fit a Half-Round Front Sight...


"Needles-and-Pins"...



Phil
l v
 
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Hammer almost done...just a little polishing yet to go...






Trigger, Ground 'smooth' and rounded now, so gone are the fine parallel lines it had originally...polishing yet to go...

Thanks Old Fluff for your mention about this option...I like it...






'Gunsmith-Machinst' set up his Cad-Cam fancy 'Mill' and did not bother seeing if it was even set up right, and did a ridiculous, rough-edged, tapering, off-set, not even Close to Center, no way would be for an 'Interference fit' as I'd asked for, "bad" nasty mess of what was supposed to be a simple 'Woodruff' Cut.

Of course, he did not want me there when he was to do the Machining, or I could have, and would have caught it in time.


Ohhhhhhhh, yeeeeeeeeeeesh...so...now...'problems'...and, broodings on how to fix his screw-up...

 
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I know...


It IS 'comical'..! Lol...


But also, yeeeeeeeesh, this is a real hassle now, to get BACK to where things were before he screwed them up...


He offered to buy a new 'used' same-kind 4 inch Barrel and have his pardner install it, and THEN to 'do' the Cut again...after I shorten it and Crown it ( again ).


I dunno...


I feel like I ate a bad, stale, Marshmellow-Creme Easter Egg and it sort of lodged like a big gluey Slug along my mid-lower-esophagus, leaving me with that 'ughy' feeling...


Maybe it'll pass...


Phil
l v
 
too bad the ejector lug aint a half inch further back- you cant really fill it with weld without ruining the heat treatment- since its a nice pinned barrel i would check out gunbroker and think about a new barrel
 
I purchased a mint model 10 a couple of weeks ago, I don't have the heart to do any modifications. Thanks for the pics, fun watching your project.
 
Im going to sound like a wiseguy here but.....now you can get a new barrel that is already 3 inches. You wont have to do the cutting and crowning and you can think back on how you should have done that to begin with.

Unfortunately those 3"s can be hard to find.
 
Thom McAnn's revenge

He ain't a machinist; he's a shoemaker.

I can think of 3 solutions off hand:

1. Take him up on his offer to change the barrel;

2. Perpendicular to the slot, cut a dovetail just big enough to erase his handiwork, then make a dovetailed block to fit. Mill the site as an integral part of the block or silver solder one onto the block. It will be adjustable for windage; or

3. Silver solder a carefully chamfered and well-formed plate big enough to cover his work, with site mounted onto the plate.

Don't be discouraged. It wasn't your fault that ol' bastard screwed up the job.
 
I've been in eng, design for 30 years so fixing screw up's is what we do. I see a chance for a nice sight. Because he has a CNC get Gunsmith-Machinst to build you a cool ass site. He would be proud and you would be happy, 1) Have him make a sight that's got a flat base with sight centered and Woodruff key offset. 2) Widen the cut so it's centered and make a sight with a wide woodruff with a sight the thickness you like on top. If Gunsmith-Machinst is any good he should be able to Mic this thing and make a nice sight. I think number two is the cleanest way to go.
I like SleazyRiders idea also.
Good Luck.
 
A simple solution... leave it as-is - and pretend it's a fixed sight RUGER - they never hit coincident POA/POI!!

Okay, I'll go back to my corner...

Stainz
 
Wow.... just wow....

The simple blade press fit is out now unless you take him up on the new barrel. The GOOD news is that with the barrel not mounted it would be super quick to cut it down and crown it in a lathe. Hopefully if this guy does the work for you on this he's sufficiently embarassed enough over his boo-boo to take extra care to get the new barrel done extra right. If his other work is quality stuff I would not sweat him doing the fix but otherwise I'd say "thanks" for the new barrel and go elsewhere. We all make mistakes but it's how we correct or amend the outcome that determines our character.

Otherwise I think you've got two options. FIrst is to go with the cross cut dovetail discussed before. Second would be to make up a wider base blade that is profiled to fit the top of the barrel and cover up the keyway cut. It would sit on the barrel and curve upwards and in from the sides to form your front sight. To attach it I'd suggest regular electronics solder. The surface area of such a sight shape would provide more than enough strength despite being soft solder. And electronics solder melts at a low enough temperature that you don't need to worry about damaging any heat treatment the barrrel has.

Oh, along that line of soldering on a new sight there's another way. Get the same guy or a new machinist to mill a simple flat from the front of the barrel to the rear of the bodged up keyway. Agian make a solder on sight that sits on the flat where the base is profiled to match the barrel and only the front sight tab sticks up. Solder it on with as thin a joint line as practical and then fine tune the profile to the barrel and polish it then blue it with some good bottled product. The solder line SHOULD pick up some of the colored extra grunge and come out all but invisible. At least the couple of times I've used a solder joint on a gun and touched it up this has been the case.

So it's not unfixable but I'd say the simple slot in sight is out of the question now.

Actually a more "solid" front sight soldered on may add some real prescence to the shape of this project. Not the light and simple look perhaps but a notable "feature" that makes it look meaner and more bulldog like.
 
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FEG63ISFINE offers a fine solution, that is, widen the existing cut, so long as it's indexed on-center and perfectly parallel to the bore. I like that idea. (This is what I appreciate about these forums.) Fabricate the sight accordingly.

A caveat of sorts: Just don't let that drunken horse's ass of a "machinist" who screwed it up in the first place perform the operation. Maybe find a toolmaker or other precision machinist. Personally, I would probably turn a mandrel to fit the bore, and index off of that. This would eliminate any concerns with indexing the bore alignment from the outside surface of the firearm.

Regardless of the path you choose, I'm certain this will have a positive outcome. Make it happen.
 
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