My wife has "no opinion" on gun control.

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Veggie Survival?

Just wanted to say that this vegetarian loves guns.
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Oh, yeah?

What makes you think vegetarians want to survive an assault, huh?

There are things more noble than staying alive. Like . . . uh, . . . like, uhm, . . . hold on, I'm thinking . . . well, anyway, I'm morally superior because I won't defend myself.

So there.

:D
 
Man, where did you guys get that nightwing was going to divorce his wife over her position on guns? My read was that it was a minor point of contention. At no point did I read anything from him that stated that he did not respect, love, or care for her. Just that she doesn't care too much for guns.

Seems like some of you have taken quite a leap from there to OMG THE MARRIAGE IS IN THE TOILET.

Maybe he stated something to that effect and I missed it?
 
Mebbe #9 didn't signify exasperation:

Quote:Find a new significant other. Sounds like you've found yourself a hippie moon bat in the making. Just wait till menopause. That'll be a riot.

You sound like ALL of my friends (or the friends I have left after my wife has driven them off). The main problem.... 4 year old son! Can't just walk out on him!

but that and some advice he was getting made things appear somewhat dire. I've seen friends split up over less, and regret it more.

Got to keep that proportionality stuff in mind.
 
Everyone deserves an opinion. Perhaps it is not the husband that has radically changed in this post, but his loving spouse.

Let's see-my ancestors were settlers in Virginia, both Carolinas, Tennessee, and others. Does my desire to hunt game vs. buying food at a grocery store make me a bad guy? Others 'family' or 'harvesting' values have simply changed more than my own family's values. Let's not forget where we came from, and elect those people that do not suggest that our Governments control our freedoms, but that our elected officials will mirror our own values. My values are down to earth, and watching out for my neighbors, among others. Now, I'm looking for a conservative candidate, or at least one that does not want to 'fix' my values.
 
Posted this in another thread and it got closed. Sorry mods.
So here it is in my original thread discussing problems I have with my wife on issues that effect my freedom as an America Loving Guy!


Ok... so I clue my wife in on the Joe Horn situation. She says "Well he was wrong too and he deserves to go to Jail. I once again tell her the situation with all of the facts that we know. She says "He should have let the police do their jobs. He should just give a description and leave it at that! It's not his job to get involved."
I said "What if people had been in that house? Would it be OK then for him to defend his neighbors"? She says "NO! It's not his job to! He should mind his own business".
WHAT THE HELL????

I then say "Well... what if someone was breaking into our house and we weren't home. What if our neighbor defended our property for us?"
She says "No! It's not his job! If he killed the burglars he should go to jail for Murder"!
UGH....

I then say "What if YOU WERE HOME. Would you know how to use my gun to defend yourself?"
"No! And who's to say that I need to shoot them? What if they don't want to harm me?"
"What if they do? How are you to know? You see... if the get shot... it's not your fault. It's theirs. IF you willingly go into someone elses home uninvited and know they have the right to shoot you without question, wouldn't the person shooting be justified? I mean... There's no way you could know if they were going to kill you, or rape you! Are you going to just trust them on good faith? After all... they did just break into your home".
"I would call the cops".
"Ok... what if the cops weren't coming fast enough, or the dispatcher didn't think it was important enough to dispatch them quickly? And what if a neighbor came over, and killed these guys that were trying to kill or rape you? Is the neighbor a criminal"?
"Yes! He wasn't invited into my house either, and ALSO he killed someone. He's not the cops."

UGH.... I swear.....

And then we start talking about the shootings in Nebraska. I tell her "That's why I'm getting my concealed Carry Permit. If I was in that mall, and there was any chance of me being able to defuse that situation, people's lifes could have been saved".
She says "But then you're a murderer just like him."
"I would be doing the same thing the police would be doing. It's not criminal. It's the right thing to do! I'm defending my fellow human. I would even be defending you possibly. Are you saying that I would be irresponsible if I DID shoot him"?
"Yes. Being a vigilante is stupid. It's not your responsibility."

My wife turns every conversation we have about freedom, or gun control, or just standing up for what's right.... into... I don't know. But I don't agree with her values and I don't know what to do.
I have a son with her. 4 years old. IF it weren't for that...I don't know.... probably would be gone by now.

How do I get her thinking along a more "sane" thought line?
I'm not overboard! I know my boundaries. But I believe that in the instance that law enforcement can not handle a situation, or be there in time to, that I have the duty of doing what I can until they arrive. Isn't that one of the big concepts in the idea of a militia, or in the right to bear arms in the first place?

UGH..... soothe my worries folks! Before I go insane!
 
While that line of thinking is not very sane by my standards, seems to me it is too late to gripe about it. Having a kid in common makes it more worthwhile to try and work through this: perhaps find whose opinions your wife respects and ask them for help.
 
She says "I'll do whatever the government tells me to do!"
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It was designed to be the other way around...the government does what we tell it to do, within the confines of the Constitution.
 
Dude, if you're anywhere within three states of Michigan, I'll take her shooting with me. (Yes, I am a woman.) I'll even go to the bar with her afterwards. :D
 
^ tell me about it! I wish and wish for the day that the government works for ME!

RON PAUL 2008! lol.... if he ever gets his ass out in front of people!
 
>>It was designed to be the other way around...the government does what we tell it to do, within the confines of the Constitution.<<

nicely said, nicely said....
 
Along with legal information and investment advice, marriage counselling is something best sought from places other than firearms forum.
 
My wife thinks gun control is ridiculous.

She will clearly point out that even if law abiding citizens did not have guns or any other weapons, that criminals would still have guns or other weapons simply because criminals don't give any thought to breaking any laws...
 
I wass going to post something funny about how my best friend who is a vegeterian, when asked why the first time, said "it's just a health condition, I'd punch a cow in the face and not care", but I read RCVY's post, and it made me feel shallow and empty. That's some really smart thinking there! I wish I were that insightful.

I lucked out in that my slightly anti wife went prospecting (for gold I should probably add) with a coworker who let her fire his .44 revolver. She said "it bruised my hand a little, but it was fun and I hit the can!". Now she seems slightly enthusiastic to go shooting with me, and I don't even need to start her o na .22. LOL
 
Oleg said:
While that line of thinking is not very sane by my standards, seems to me it is too late to gripe about it. Having a kid in common...
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I'm with Oleg on this one. Once you decided that she was to be mother of your child(ren), the moral/ethical issues changed pretty dramatically.

I would suggest that maybe it's time for you to explore the sanity in your wife's positions. Calling her positions "insane" is not helpful - regardless of whether you think that's an accurate statment or not.

Ok... so I clue my wife in on the Joe Horn situation...WHAT THE HELL?
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There are a number of folks who believe strongly in self defense who might agree with your wife. Joe Horn was not defending his neighbors' lives when he headed outside to confront the burglars. He killed two men while saving his neighbors' property. There are sane people who would argue that lethal force can be used ethically only when human life is at stake. There are a number of sane folks who believe that lethal force can be ethically used to protect property. There are probably also insane folks who believe take both positions as well.

She says "But then you're a murderer just like him."
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You will find that this is a position taken by a number of religious pacifists. There are three main Christian pacifist denominations, the Mennonites, the Quakers, and the Amish. Most Christian churches have some pacifist strains, from Catholics to Pentacostals. And many non-Christians belief systems also have pacifist strains.

There are also a noticeable number of non-relgious pacfists.

My point here is not that those beliefs are correct, but they may be rational and sane.

So your wife's position is not necessarily insane.

I would suggest that - since you chose to have a child with this woman - you ought to do some reading on pacifism (either religious pacifism or ethical pacifism). One book I would suggest is the Journal of George Fox. It's a pretty rollicking adventure - the diary of a man who generally expected to beaten with staves when he spoke the truth - as he saw it, and kept speaking and being beaten until he'd changed a country. Whether or not you agree with his religious claims (I don't), he's a very interesting writer and it's a heck of a story.

It seems to me that having chosen this woman as the mother of your child, you probably need to find a way to respect her beliefs. If you chose not to do this, your son will pay the price. Note that I am not saying that you have to agree with her beliefs, just that you have to respect them.

Nothing will probably have more impact on his future choice of mate and relationship with women than the respect with which your treat your wife.

Mike
 
^ I do respect my wife. I love my wife. But she loves to argue. I'm willing to drop a subject and she keeps arguing by herself. It's atrocious!
As far as Joe Horn goes... I know he didn't have to do what he did! But from the 911 tapes you can hear that he was trying to defend his neighbors property. He said he was going to go outside and confront them. He said he was gonna take his gun with him becasue of the confrontation. He yells "Move, and you're dead". He then says that they charged at him and he shot.
Who knows what really happened. BUT... if someone was breaking into my neighbors house and the cops WOULD NOT show up, and I see them getting ready to leave I'm gonna confront them. And I'm gonna make sure I'm protected.

But...I understand my wifes hesitation to any of this! it is scary, especially if you don't personally stand ANYWHERE on guns... but I think she should be willing to talk about it, and ask me questions the same way I do of her.
I want a discussion. Not a full out verbal war!
 
Unfortunately this seems to be a trait common among women. I don't mean to be a sexist or a mysognist, I have had my mother, my mother-in-law, and my wife in her more sane moments tell me that is just how women are. Some are worse than otheres, and some are better than others. Unfortunately, when you are talking with such a stern pacifist about something like this, they are going to get very defensive at what they believe is right.

I'ts probably very similar to if you tried to go into a Muslim Mosque and spread the Mormon word. They would probably get very defensive that you are trying to tell them something very intrinsic to their lives is completely wrong.

As much as it sucks, look at it from her perspective. Is she saying these things because that's what the media has made her think, or is she honestly a good person who feels that killing another human being is wrong, no matter the reasons. She is probably getting just as upset that you can't see her point as you are about her. It's not a matter of right or wrong, it's just different levels of "right".

I'm curious to know, since she doesn't seem to understand why we have guns, does she in fact dislike your ownership of them too? It doesn't really sound like it, or you wouldn't have guns or wouldn't have a wife, and definitely wouldn't be getting a CCW.
 
My wife used to be an anti-gunner. I found there were a few tools useful in getting her to come around (and now, as David McCracken can tell you, she's a more skilled and probably better educated gunner than I):

1) Most important, don't force it on her!! No one likes to feel stupid, wrong, or bullied. If this is a subject where she learns to expect you to treat her poorly or become combative, she will polarize against it. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER!!! When you have debates, do not win! Do not press the point home! Bring up logical counter arguments to anything she might have (without making her feel stupid, of course), but never drive her to the point of 'you're wrong'. You take her to the point of 'there's more information there' and leave her to let it sink in.

2) Make sure she is comfortable with the subject matter. Again, don't force it on her! This is all about gradual accommodation. My wife and I both do cooperative story writing, so I made sure the hero in the story regularly does cool stuff with guns against bad guys who will do terrible things if not stopped. It makes for great, entertaining story and lets her get comfortable with the idea of carrying a weapon without it being forced in her lap. Offer (but do not force) to take her out shooting. Most likely she has never held or seen in real life a firearm being used. The media likes to paint guns as terrible things. We know they aren't, but you have to break down that bias. The first step for breaking down any prejudice is knowledge. If she's willing to go out shooting with you and especially if she's awesome at it (make sure you don't go with competitive people, but make it fun and enjoyable), she'll attach guns with enjoyable activities and it will help dispell negative stereotypes.

Similarly, find movies where guns are featured as a prominent but good role, and she can enjoy them. West Side Story is a BAD movie for this. Zombie Apocalypse movies may be good ones (my wife likes grindhouse, so there aren't a lot of pro-gun movies she doesn't enjoy). Equilibrium is another good example. If she sees good guys with guns, especially against bad guys without guns, it will continue to break down pre-existing stereotypes.

3) When dealing with people other than her, and people with whom she is not emotionally connected, make sure you stand up for your beliefs. If you get into a friendly debate with Joe about gun control and she is not participating (or is participating on your side), you can take this as a chance to show off the logic of the pro-gun side. If you're really flashy, you can draw the conversation to the points you know she's stuck on, so you can argue with her by proxy, addressing her specific concerns without threatening her directly.

Ultimately though you have to remember, you cannot FORCE anyone to agree with you, (however you can easily force them to disagree with you, even if it's just viscerally). You are working with her, not against her, and leaving bread crumbs to follow where you've gone. Don't rush her, let her move at her own pace. But ultimately, if she is an intelligent and honest woman, as long as she continues to deal with the topic, I believe she has no choice but to agree guns have an important place in our society.

(As an aside, I originally approached this topic from the question of 'should guns be legal' myself. My father never owned a gun, I only encountered them in Boy Scouts, and I've been exposed to some very anti-gun environments for most of my life. Heck, my mom wouldn't even let me get toy guns for Christmas as a kid. So I came here and looked at the Brady sites to understand the debate. As an honest person, and admitedly, with a somewhat heavy heart, I could not fail but to accept the Brady fantasy that taking away guns would end violent crime is fundamentally flawed, and to realize that guns are freedom in physical form. Freedom comes with responsibility. They will be abused, people will die, but the alternative is slavery.)
 
What about your 4 Year Old...

Nightwing,

You have my sympathy, and kudos to you for asking for thoughts and trying to work through this.

Some great (and less great) ideas mentioned here. One thing I haven't seen unless I overlooked it, is mention of your child's safety, whom I'm sure is loved by both of you. Have you tried exaplining to her that you will NOT risk her safety and that of your child's on HOPING that a criminal (if they broke in) would not harm either of them?
 
Nightwing said:
Point is....any of you have this problem before? How did you get your Significant Other to see the light?
Got a real struggle on my hands. What does it take to get someone to open their eyes?
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I'd suggest that your wife Google

Petit+Cheshire+Connecticut

I had a SO who was very anti the entire time we were together. That was, in fact, the primary reason we split. A few years after we broke up she relocated to a remote area of Montana. About a year or so after she moved there she confided to me in an e-mail that she had been wrong about guns. Out there, she saw all sorts of ordinary people doing ordinary things -- with guns strapped to their waists. She decided that maybe guns aren't evil after all. In fact, she finally confided that she had bought a gun for self protection.

Unfortunately, her conversion came far too late for there to have been any chance to rebuild the relationship ...
 
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