My wife was assaulted tonight

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Gordy Wesen

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She left work at 6pm and walked to her car alone around a corner of her building going perhaps halfway of the 30 yards. Nobody else was around. The lot light has been dead for several months so things were dark but the fellow was illuminated by a light behind my wife as he came from the bushes across this short parking lot talking gibberish and coming directly at her. Her hands were full so she quickly moved what was in the right hand to the left and as he came he spoke loudly again. She used her command voice and said "stop, I don't know you", and he continued to come. She spoke the same words more strongly and moved her right hand to her Coronado leather hobo for her Fox Labs pepper spray. When the fellow saw her go for her purse (about 10 feet away) he suddenly veered and ran past her down between the buildings. The dude was an Arab/Indian about 5' 10" and thin and was alone.
I am so proud of this girl. She learned about command presence under stress from training and trialing her Rottweiler from a BH to SchH 3 and some of that is talking to the "bad guy' (helper). We have had much experience using pepper spray after being attacked many, many times by stray dogs when we walk ours out in the boonies.
She thanked me for always reminding her of situational awareness, for her specialized purse, her pepper spray and now we are discussing levels of force and transitioning between them. She was even grateful now for the times I come up behind her in public and lay a heavy hand on her unsuspecting shoulder.
After this event she said she'd never look at being in public the same again and she is preparing herself to be faster next time.

Successful tactics this time around. A story with a good ending.
 
Gordy, I'm happy to hear she was unharmed. I hope this will become a catalyst for further training for the both of you. Please don't let her rely on spray alone for SD. I have seen it fail before and the failure rates for EDP's seem to be disproportionately high.
 
Gordy,

Good for her! A fight avoided is a fight won. But with EDPs or druggies, OC doesn't always work, and she needs options to escalate if an encounter does not go according to plan, to include everything from close quarters physical skills on up to lethal force if necessary.

You folks have a couple of excellent training venues in state, hope you can take advantage of them-

http://www.insightstraining.com/

http://www.firearmsacademy.com/

lpl/nc
 
"I'm happy to hear she was unharmed."

+1. I wouldn't give her pepper spray though. The wind might blow it into her face. I'd reccomend a G19 or G21 or Taurus revolver. Stay sharp & safe.
 
V4Vendetta said:
"I'm happy to hear she was unharmed."

+1. I wouldn't give her pepper spray though. The wind might blow it into her face. I'd reccomend a G19 or G21 or Taurus revolver. Stay sharp & safe.
Click to expand...

So you are recommending not using any less leathal force, and just shooting the guy out right. Because it _might_ blow back in her face and she _might_ not be able to take it.

Perhaps instead of removing the tool you should train it. Get sprayed learn to fight through it, learn to move your body around to not be directly down wind of the spray. Step off the line of attack etc.

Not every situation you encounter on the street is going to be a lethal force encounter. Perhaps it would be be prudent to have an ablity to handle situations where you are not yet justified in using lethal force. All this guy did was start walking right at her, and ignore the verbal command. Maybe he didn't speak english or was deaf. You don't know that and you at this point aren't legally justified in shooting him. Giving him a quick spray of pepper on the other hand, or lighting him up with a surefire...

Oh and that wasn't a slam on her at all. She did very well in the encounter.

Chris
 
BRAVO + LOUD APPLAUSE!!!

She did good. Glad to see everything worked out.

Now its time to file a police report and a nasty letter to the building manager for having that burnt out light. Since it happened on company property you might even call in OSHA and complain under the General Duty Clause. Then there is the Fire Marshal for lack of adequate lighting on a means of egress.

Raise H*ll!
 
Title caught my attention. Was getting my "sorry to hear that" all warmed up. I'm glad she's not hurt or worse. Sounds like you have one sharp little lady there. Open eyes and open ears. Don't do that to us with the titles next time. ;)
 
i don't think vendetta was saying go straight for the gun. but i think it was the being aware that the spray could fail or even due to wind direction come back on her so be aware of it and have an alt plan, if you need it. the idea of i you go into a room have more than one way out. simple tactics in motion.
that being said a firearm as a back up to the spray or as backup to a stun gun or taser might be advisable. but like any thing you need to learn how to use it effectively.
 
I really appreciate the links to training.
We've gotten so accustomed to using pepper spray on dogs that doping the wind and moving as necessary is not too big a deal. We always use the spray that fires in a cone shape (OC10 OR Fox Labs) and she is quite proficent. She did file a report but it was when she returned home. Her first concern was getting her friend safely to her car as they were the last ones in the building. After this happened she got in her vehicle and drove to a lighted area and co-ordinated her friends exit via cell phone. The police were nice but they chided her about not calling more promptly.
Like I said, we are working on transitioning between levels of force but a gun beats a Hideaway and for this I appreciate the links.
Good idea about OSHA.
 
gremlin_bros said:
i don't think vendetta was saying go straight for the gun. but i think it was the being aware that the spray could fail or even due to wind direction come back on her so be aware of it and have an alt plan, if you need it. the idea of i you go into a room have more than one way out. simple tactics in motion.
Click to expand...

"I wouldn't give her pepper spray though."

I think that was pretty clear and that is why I worded my post as I worded it.
 
Gordy Wesen said:
I really appreciate the links to training.
We've gotten so accustomed to using pepper spray on dogs that doping the wind and moving as necessary is not too big a deal. We always use the spray that fires in a cone shape (OC10 OR Fox Labs) and she is quite proficent. She did file a report but it was when she returned home. Her first concern was getting her friend safely to her car as they were the last ones in the building. After this happened she got in her vehicle and drove to a lighted area and co-ordinated her friends exit via cell phone. The police were nice but they chided her about not calling more promptly.
Like I said, we are working on transitioning between levels of force but a gun beats a Hideaway and for this I appreciate the links.
Good idea about OSHA.
Click to expand...

A gun should defaintly be carried.

+1 to the cone shape. You should check out ALS Top Cop OC as well. I've had good luck with it, and can atest to it hurting like a sonofabitch
 
I would hunt the man down free of charge if I were in Washington. My worst fear is something happenening to my girlfriend of 4 years. Im glad everything worked out alright.
 
crofrog said:
So you are recommending not using any less leathal force, and just shooting the guy out right. Because it _might_ blow back in her face and she _might_ not be able to take it.

Chris
Click to expand...

Her being able to take pepper spray blowing in her face isnt the point, it's the fact that it would fail to stop the attacker. This is the High Road, so I am going to stop here. Have a nice day.
 
Beyond all the good debate here about lethal vs. non-lethal weapons, this case is a great illustration of the value of an Every Day Carry (EDC) FLASHLIGHT.

Because the Real World is full of dimly/poorly lit parking lots and streets -- often with out-of-commission lighting that just magnifies the shadows hiding those Predators-In-Waiting -- a good flashlight can be priceless in these scenario.

I've lost count of the times where my various pocketable flashlights have saved the day. By "good" flashlight I'm talking something like a Surefire E2E, E2L, 6P, or G2, etc. I'm constantly amazed by the sadly-prevalent mindset of those who sink thousand$ into guns (and training) but pinch pennies in tactical illumination. That $3 grocery-store economy-special flashlight (and that cute little 2 X AA Mini-Mag) will let ya down every time.

In the case here, this High Roader's wife performed well under stress. However, a good flashlight already in her hand -- to sweep the parking lot shadows -- may very well have scared the assailant away long before he approached her. Beyond that, if he did approach to spitting (i.e., Tueller-drill) distance, then 65 lumens of light zapped into his dark-adapted eyes may have temporarily stunned him... and enabled the lady's deployment of a second-layer weapon.

Flashlight + O.C. + Situational Awareness = Good Non-Lethal Protection Layer

Finally, if/when there's no alternative but "Glock-stoppin'," then the fact that one initially attempted to thwart an assailant's advance with a bright flashlight warning (while that' s not always feasible) will strengthen your case in the inevitable down-stream legal skirmish.
 
000Buck said:
Her being able to take pepper spray blowing in her face isnt the point, it's the fact that it would fail to stop the attacker. This is the High Road, so I am going to stop here. Have a nice day.
Click to expand...

So you can say with scientificly backed data that OC is 100% ineffective? If you can't say that, then you also can't say that it "would fail to stop the attacker," but enough semantics. Why is escalation of force such a foreign concept. You can easily keep a small thing of mace in your hand. You can't say the same thing for your CCW peice, not to mention just pulling it out in some places could get you charged with brandishing or cause you to loose your permit.

Mace the guy if he get's to close but isn't presenting an articulable lethal force senario.

It could easily play out like this for me. I see a guy walking straight at me it's winter right now so I carry my mace in my right side coat pocket and my flashlight in my left. I already have them both indexed. So depending on distance lighting etc etc I might decide to use my flashlight if it is dark out as a mean's to let him know I know he is coming and to get a good look at him both to check for obviously visible weapons, sign's of intoxication, being able to give a good description, and once again depending on situation to buy me time by reseting is OODA loop and taking away his ablity to see me. Now comes step 2, the light isn't deternig him, well depending on what I saw, distance and time I have the option to pull out my mace or my gun. If I still can't justify a lethal force encounter (although it's getting easier with him not being detered) hit him with mace you can do this from a few feet away which is indeed way to close. Depending on his reaction/distance etc etc. The next step could be a lot of things from shooting from retention, to knifing him, to just getting in a good plain old fist fight.

In that senario I layed out right above it would be just as easy if distance premits to go straight to the mace, taking away vision and respiration, before moving on to different level's of force.

Don't get me wrong I belive in escalting through all of this very very quickly. Also if it's a clear lethal force encounter you won't see me dicking around with anything that's not lethal.

As for the people who say mace is hard to aim. It's easier to aim than a gun and we all seem to be able to aim those. Like anything else it requires practice. Fox I belive sell's inert unit's that could easily be worked into a force on force training / sparring senario.

Chris
 
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