Mythbusters, I think I just watched them make an illegal machine gun!

[Exposure]

I was watching Mythbusters this afternoon (I love that show!) and they were testing the myth about a bullet fired in a pressurized airplane and the potential for passengers to be sucked out in that scenario.

This episode has probably been rehashed here multiple times since it is an older one but today I realized that by the BATF's definition they produced a machine gun!

They rigged up an electric motor with a cam on it to actuate the trigger of a pistol. In testing the little rig went round and round and looked to me as though if attached to a semi auto it would keep firing the weapon as long as the motor was on.

BATF has ruled that devices like this are in fact illegal machine guns!

 

[jlbraun]

I have indeed seen that episode. I thought they used a solenoid to actuate it.

I think that was Jamie's Glock that they used, so that could be construed as a machine gun if they used a motor.

Come to think of it, that was early in the series - I think that they use strings now to fire guns. Maybe someone notified them of this potential legal pitfall.

 

[Rumble]

I may be wrong, but I thought that a machine gun would fire continuously as long as the trigger was depressed (i.e., multiple shots fired for each press of the trigger), whereas this sounds like it simply repeatedly presses the trigger, but only fires a single shot for each trigger pull.

Of course, if there is a ruling saying that any machine that repeatedly presses the trigger of a gun to make it fire continuously is a machine gun, then...yeah, sounds like they did.

 

[ribbonstone]

Are right...by definition, they created a machine gun. Doesn't matter that the rate was real low. Considering what they were doing, should have used a single shot (nope..singly loading a semi-auto isn't the same thing as a real single shot).

 

[Manedwolf]

I was watching Mythbusters this afternoon (I love that show!) and they were testing the myth about a bullet fired in a pressurized airplane and the potential for passengers to be sucked out in that scenario.

This episode has probably been rehashed here multiple times since it is an older one but today I realized that by the BATF's definition they produced a machine gun!

They rigged up an electric motor with a cam on it to actuate the trigger of a pistol. In testing the little rig went round and round and looked to me as though if attached to a semi auto it would keep firing the weapon as long as the motor was on.

BATF has ruled that devices like this are in fact illegal machine guns!

Well, then, don't draw too much attention to it, the bureaucrats might not notice. Those guys do cool stuff and I'd hate to see them cancelled or in trouble.

 

[SFvet]

Well, then, don't draw too much attention to it, the bureaucrats might not notice. Those guys do cool stuff and I'd hate to see them cancelled or in trouble.

Its all good, they have their own legal department to manage liability issues and possible law confrontations.

 

[bogie]

Just guessing here, but the boys seem fairly firearms savvy, and given that they do hollywood special effects, they may actually have a mfg license...

 

[Jake!]

Just guessing here, but the boys seem fairly firearms savvy, and given that they do hollywood special effects, they may actually have a mfg license...

I do remember the ATF or FBI being on several episodes, the cement truck explosion comes to mind.

 

[slzy]

well,would they have got sucked outta the airplane a la goldfinger,or not?

 

[Dan0076]

Didn't they also do a recent episode about trying to catch a bullet by your teeth? They had a semi-auto rigged up to a machine to fire the weapon.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

I saw them make a similar device to test the "exploding air tank" scenerio from JAWS. Love that show...those guys are the coolest geeks I have ever seen.

 

[BHPshooter]

well,would they have got sucked outta the airplane a la goldfinger,or not?

Yes, do tell!

Wes

 

[Slmpickins28]

I think that was Jamie's Glock that they used, so that could be construed as a machine gun if they used a motor.

It was a Sig I think a 229 or 226. The Mythbusters are great. Did you guys see the one about how 3ft of water can stop a bullet?

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

It was a Sig I think a 229 or 226. The Mythbusters are great. Did you guys see the one about how 3ft of water can stop a bullet?

No, what was the conclusion?

 

[jlbraun]

No, what was the conclusion?

3, repeat, 3, feet of water is enough to keep you safe from all supersonic rounds up to and including .50 BMG! (your eardrums, on the other hand...) Basically, the FMJ rounds fragment instantly upon hitting water. I would be interested in seeing the performance of solid core ammo but would imagine it wouldn't be all that different - you'd still see the round break up as soon as it hit water.

However, if your adversaries are using subsonic rounds, you're not safe until 9 feet under - and shotgun slugs go 12 feet or more. The interesting part is that Jamie's homemade Civil War bullet (subsonic) diverted as much as 30 degrees off axis in water.

 

[jeepmor]

Water gun show question

3, feet of water is enough to keep you safe from all supersonic rounds

The 9mm went 9ft under water and the shotgun went more. Aren't both of these rounds over 1000fps? But just at supersonic. Not nearly twice or more as is the case with typical rifle cartridges or that 50BMG.

I wish they had high speed underwater footage of the bullets disintegrating, that would have been the best part of the show.

I dig the show too, but wish they would do and show more of the math involved. When they did the one about sending a swing over the top, we calculated that in college freshmen physics with a bucket full of water. The speed required is that of the acceleration of gravity (g=32.2 fps^2, which requires a velocity of that 32.2fps or greater to keep the water in the bucket, so to say. I remember the homework question. Anyhow, I would like to see just a minute or two more of chalkboard work integrated into the stuff they are doing. It would fit well and really help with a lot of the myth unravelling, but I'm a geek and like that stuff.

Physics is phun,

jeepmor

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

The 9mm went 9ft under water and the shotgun went more. Aren't both of these rounds over 1000fps? But just at supersonic. Not nearly twice or more as is the case with typical rifle cartridges or that 50BMG.

I wish they had high speed underwater footage of the bullets disintegrating, that would have been the best part of the show.

I dig the show too, but wish they would do and show more of the math involved. When they did the one about sending a swing over the top, we calculated that in college freshmen physics with a bucket full of water. The speed required is that of the acceleration of gravity (g=32.2 fps^2, which requires a velocity of that 32.2fps or greater to keep the water in the bucket, so to say. I remember the homework question. Anyhow, I would like to see just a minute or two more of chalkboard work integrated into the stuff they are doing. It would fit well and really help with a lot of the myth unravelling, but I'm a geek and like that stuff.

Physics is phun,

jeepmor

Ummm...noone told me this board would require math. There is a reason my degrees are in psychology and art education.

 

[jlbraun]

The 9mm went 9ft under water and the shotgun went more. Aren't both of these rounds over 1000fps? But just at supersonic. Not nearly twice or more as is the case with typical rifle cartridges or that 50BMG.

I wish they had high speed underwater footage of the bullets disintegrating, that would have been the best part of the show.

I dig the show too, but wish they would do and show more of the math involved. When they did the one about sending a swing over the top, we calculated that in college freshmen physics with a bucket full of water. The speed required is that of the acceleration of gravity (g=32.2 fps^2, which requires a velocity of that 32.2fps or greater to keep the water in the bucket, so to say. I remember the homework question. Anyhow, I would like to see just a minute or two more of chalkboard work integrated into the stuff they are doing. It would fit well and really help with a lot of the myth unravelling, but I'm a geek and like that stuff.

Physics is phun,

jeepmor

I forgot. Rounds only disintegrate if their muzzle velocity is greater than the speed of sound IN WATER, which is much higher than in air. Therefore, 9mm, 12ga slugs, and the Minie ball didn't disintegrate.

 

[Lucky]

I thought they broke up because the tensile strength of the lead and copper wasn't strong enough. Aiui the reason the bullets break up is because they aren't designed to fly sideways. In water they yaw and then fragment.

Steel core, or solid copper or bronze bullets, that stuff is tough aiui, and would not fragment.

 

[G36-UK]

The decompression myth was the first one I saw.

Didn't they end up having to use some sort of shaped charge for a decent effect?

 

[Sleeping Dog]

Yes, they eventually used explosives (because that's what they do ).

The bullet holes in the windows did nothing to cause catastrophic decompression, just a slow leak out the little hole. I would guess the compressors in the ventilation system could easily keep up with that amount of leakage, so the oxygen masks would not drop automatically.

As for pulling the trigger via motors or solenoids and string, using wires or remote-control, they've done it on other shows. Like the one where they were plugging the end of a shotgun barrel to see if it "banana peeled" (it didn't). Or the one (a salute to the movie "Jaws") where they shot a hole in a full scuba tank to see if it would explode and kill a shark (it didn't, but it rocketed around a little).

Good show, but I don't know if they're still producing. All I see are re-runs.

Regards.

editing: I almost forgot the show where they set off cannons. The cannon made from a hollowed tree trunk (it worked), or the one where they shot frozen and thawed chickens at a small airplane's windshield (both the frozen and thawed ones broke through it).

 

[LaVere]

machine gun

I think I read. It is not a machine gun if one pull of the trigger shoots one round, and it makes no difference what pulls the trigger. Even a gattling gun would fall under that rule. Push the button ( or what ever it is ) more than one round is fired.
Just my thoughts

 

[Father Knows Best]

I think I read. It is not a machine gun if one pull of the trigger shoots one round, and it makes no difference what pulls the trigger. Even a gattling gun would fall under that rule. Push the button ( or what ever it is ) more than one round is fired.
Just my thoughts

ATF has ruled that a hand-cranked gatling gun is not a "machine gun." If, however, you attach an electric motor to operate the crank such that the motor keeps turning and the gun keeps firing as long as the switch for the motor is in the "on" position, then you have a machine gun. The reason is that the switch that turns the motor on and off effectively becomes the "trigger." If it keeps firing as long as you have the switch depressed, it is firing multiple shots for each action of the "trigger."

You can buy some nifty crank trigger devices designed to work with M1919 machine guns that have been converted to semi-auto. With practice and careful setup, they reportedly allow you to achieve almost the same rate of fire as a full auto, but without the expense and paperwork of buying a real full auto machine gun. If you were to hook up an electric motor to turn that crank, though, you'd be manufacturing a machine gun.

 

[TexasRifleman]

I think I read. It is not a machine gun if one pull of the trigger shoots one round, and it makes no difference what pulls the trigger. Even a gattling gun would fall under that rule. Push the button ( or what ever it is ) more than one round is fired.
Just my thoughts

Very wrong. The button becomes the trigger with the scenario used here, and holding that button down caused the Glocks trigger to activate repeatedly.

That's a machine gun. Be very careful with this stuff.

Hell the ATF has designated a shoe string a machine gun.....

 

[outofbattery]

The button becomes the trigger so it's irrelevant if it only fires one time per the pull of mechanical trigger,if it fires continuously while the button activating the mechanisim that pulls the mechanical trigger is depressed it is a machine gun.