Mythbusters, I think I just watched them make an illegal machine gun!

[Creeping Incrementalism]

I think you only got one shot per press of the button, so it's not a machinegun.

Airplane cabins, while pressurized, are not airtight. They have a valve that continuously leaks air in a measured way, and changes size to maintain a constant pressure. Since jet engines are big compressors, compressed air is taken from them to keep the cabin pressurized. If there's a few bulletholes, the valve just changes size to compensate for the air being let out. To get explosive decompression, you'd need an explosion powerful enough to blow out a large section of fuselage. A few bullet holes isn't nearly enough.

 

[YellowLab]

Just guessing here, but the boys seem fairly firearms savvy, and given that they do hollywood special effects, they may actually have a mfg license...

But you cannot manufacturer a new machine gun unless you have a demo letter from LEO or a gubment agency.

Just another case of 'US' vs 'THEM'.. being an t.v. (or being a police officer) give you magical immunity from those pesky laws common folk have to follow.

 

[YellowLab]

I think you only got one shot per press of the button, so it's not a machinegun.

There is a READILY CONVERTABLE clause. How hard would it be to turn the motor/switch into a FA weapon. NOT TO FREAKING HARD.



Buy ALL definitions it was (or still is) an MG. But like I said.. they are in t.v. land and have immunity becuase.. well, its t.v. land.

 

[hksw]

Just guessing here, but the boys seem fairly firearms savvy, and given that they do hollywood special effects, they may actually have a mfg license...

Far from it. If you watch the earlier shows, you'll notice that they had no knowledge of firearms, use of firearms, and firearm laws. Basically like any other general public person. Over time when they had to use them, they eventually get to know a few things but are still not quite there yet. Just watch the handling of firearms on there current shows.

 

[Sunray]

"...the boys seem fairly firearms savvy..." Um, no. Jamie's claim to having firearm skills is that he grew up on a farm. Neither of 'em know squat.

 

[MD_Willington]

I do remember the ATF or FBI being on several episodes, the cement truck explosion comes to mind.

I've noticed that too, they probably have them come along on any firearms or explosives episode, probably helps to have them along in case some one calls in a Barney Fife...

 

[3rdpig]

All you'd have to do to make the electric motor/eccentric trigger legal is to put a mechanical stop in it so it can't turn more than, say 300 degrees. Then mount a spring to return it to the starting position once the current is cut. That way it would fire once when you pressed the contact, and once again when you released it. The ATF has already stated that it's legal to have the gun fire once on pressing the trigger and once on releasing it. Of course it's always wise to get an offical ruling from them before beginning the project. Better safe than 10 in the slammer.

Edited to add: Wait, they're in Cali, God knows what the laws there are like, but the above should work for those of us still living in the free world.

 

[YellowLab]

All you'd have to do to make the electric motor/eccentric trigger legal is to put a mechanical stop in it so it can't turn more than, say 300 degrees. Then mount a spring to return it to the starting position once the current is cut. That way it would fire once when you pressed the contact, and once again when you released it. The ATF has already stated that it's legal to have the gun fire once on pressing the trigger and once on releasing it.

Again, a big fat NO. You cannot design a firearm that is 'readily convertable' to FA. The BATFE is not going to trust you to NOT clip that spring or whatever to only shoot semi. Otherwise we could all have FA receivers without the one magic part (like a DIAS) to make FA.... they are both readily converatalbe and a BIG NO NO.

Not only does Mythbusters need to get some NFA education... but so do THR members.

 

[YellowLab]

All you'd have to do to make the electric motor/eccentric trigger legal is to put a mechanical stop in it so it can't turn more than, say 300 degrees. Then mount a spring to return it to the starting position once the current is cut. That way it would fire once when you pressed the contact, and once again when you released it. The ATF has already stated that it's legal to have the gun fire once on pressing the trigger and once on releasing it.

Again, a big fat NO. You cannot design a firearm that is 'readily convertable' to FA. The BATFE is not going to trust you to NOT clip that spring or whatever to only shoot semi. Otherwise we could all have FA receivers without the one magic part (like a DIAS) to make FA.... they are both readily converatalbe and a BIG NO NO.

Not only does Mythbusters need to get some NFA education... but so do THR members.

 

[YellowLab]

All you'd have to do to make the electric motor/eccentric trigger legal is to put a mechanical stop in it so it can't turn more than, say 300 degrees. Then mount a spring to return it to the starting position once the current is cut. That way it would fire once when you pressed the contact, and once again when you released it. The ATF has already stated that it's legal to have the gun fire once on pressing the trigger and once on releasing it.

Again, a big fat NO. You cannot design a firearm that is 'readily convertable' to FA. The BATFE is not going to trust you to NOT clip that spring or whatever to only shoot semi. Otherwise we could all have FA receivers without the one magic part (like a DIAS) to make FA.... they are both readily converatalbe and a BIG NO NO.

Not only does Mythbusters need to get some NFA education... but so do THR members.

 

[YellowLab]

All you'd have to do to make the electric motor/eccentric trigger legal is to put a mechanical stop in it so it can't turn more than, say 300 degrees. Then mount a spring to return it to the starting position once the current is cut. That way it would fire once when you pressed the contact, and once again when you released it. The ATF has already stated that it's legal to have the gun fire once on pressing the trigger and once on releasing it.

Again, a big fat NO. You cannot design a firearm that is 'readily convertable' to FA. The BATFE is not going to trust you to NOT clip that spring or whatever to only shoot semi. Otherwise we could all have FA receivers without the one magic part (like a DIAS) to make FA.... they are both readily converatalbe and a BIG NO NO.

Not only does Mythbusters need to get some NFA education... but so do THR members.

 

[YellowLab]

All you'd have to do to make the electric motor/eccentric trigger legal is to put a mechanical stop in it so it can't turn more than, say 300 degrees. Then mount a spring to return it to the starting position once the current is cut. That way it would fire once when you pressed the contact, and once again when you released it. The ATF has already stated that it's legal to have the gun fire once on pressing the trigger and once on releasing it.

Again, a big fat NO. You cannot design a firearm that is 'readily convertable' to FA. The BATFE is not going to trust you to NOT clip that spring or whatever to only shoot semi. Otherwise we could all have FA receivers without the one magic part (like a DIAS) to make FA.... they are both readily converatalbe and a BIG NO NO.

Not only does Mythbusters need to get some NFA education... but so do THR members.

 

[YellowLab]

All you'd have to do to make the electric motor/eccentric trigger legal is to put a mechanical stop in it so it can't turn more than, say 300 degrees. Then mount a spring to return it to the starting position once the current is cut. That way it would fire once when you pressed the contact, and once again when you released it. The ATF has already stated that it's legal to have the gun fire once on pressing the trigger and once on releasing it.

Again, a big fat NO. You cannot design a firearm that is 'readily convertable' to FA. The BATFE is not going to trust you to NOT clip that spring or whatever to only shoot semi. Otherwise we could all have FA receivers without the one magic part (like a DIAS) to make FA.... they are both readily converatalbe and a BIG NO NO.

Not only does Mythbusters need to get some NFA education... but so do THR members.

 

[musher]

Hey yellowlab, you got a browser with 'da switch'?

Isn't a hand crank (hellfire, gatling, or whatever) readily convertible by chucking the axle of the crank in a power drill? Yet ATF says the cranks are legal...

 

[Exposure]

Not only does Mythbusters need to get some NFA education... but so do THR members.

Not to bust your chops YellowLab, but a manufacturer can make a new machine gun without a demo letter. They can't BUY a post 86 gun without a demo letter but if they are an 07FFL/02 SOT they can make all the new MG's they want to.

Sorry, just had to nitpick you a bit there.

 

[YellowLab]

Sorry for all the dupes... work net connection is crappy on the best days... today was not one of them.

Its not that simple.. you cannot simply get an SOT and make MG's and never sell them. They have to be registered... and thats not gonna happen unless LEO or gubment gives you an order/paperwork.

Remember, you are supposed to be running a business.. not collecting. Stories about on SOT collectors getting busted cause they try and transfer MGs to themselves. That is legal with PRE-86 samples, but not POST-86. Look at MGs for sale.. there is little difference WRT transferable and PRE samples. Only POST samples are dirt cheap.. cause they cannot go anywhere without a LEO letter.

 

[Exposure]

Sorry for all the dupes... work net connection is crappy on the best days... today was not one of them.

Its not that simple.. you cannot simply get an SOT and make MG's and never sell them. They have to be registered... and thats not gonna happen unless LEO or gubment gives you an order/paperwork.

Remember, you are supposed to be running a business.. not collecting. Stories about on SOT collectors getting busted cause they try and transfer MGs to themselves. That is legal with PRE-86 samples, but not POST-86. Look at MGs for sale.. there is little difference WRT transferable and PRE samples. Only POST samples are dirt cheap.. cause they cannot go anywhere without a LEO letter.

I guarantee post samples can be manufactured by an SOT without a demo letter. They do need to be registered with the BATF within 24 hours by submitting a form 2.

There are companies out there doing it every day. Bushmaster, and Colt immediately spring to mind. They certainly don't get demo letters for every weapon they produce.

I agree you do need to do some business or BATF will shut you down. But having an 07FFL/02 SOT is paying the government for the privilege of making new MG's for sale to the Government or law enforcement. This is the same exact license that any machine gun manufacturer will have, regardless of how big or small.

As I stated earlier I understand that an 07FFL/02 SOT can't buy a post 86 MG without a demo letter but they can manufacture one without it.

Go to www.subguns.com and check around. That board is LOADED with 07FFL/02 SOT license holders. Or pick up Dan Shea's book, The Machine Gun Dealers Bible. It is a great reference and very interesting to boot!

 

[LaVere]

Very wrong. The button becomes the trigger with the scenario used here, and holding that button down caused the Glocks trigger to activate repeatedly.

That's a machine gun. Be very careful with this stuff.

Hell the ATF has designated a shoe string a machine gun.....

I thought that is what I was saying.

 

[LaVere]

ATF has ruled that a hand-cranked gatling gun is not a "machine gun." If, however, you attach an electric motor to operate the crank such that the motor keeps turning and the gun keeps firing as long as the switch for the motor is in the "on" position, then you have a machine gun. The reason is that the switch that turns the motor on and off effectively becomes the "trigger." If it keeps firing as long as you have the switch depressed, it is firing multiple shots for each action of the "trigger."

You can buy some nifty crank trigger devices designed to work with M1919 machine guns that have been converted to semi-auto. With practice and careful setup, they reportedly allow you to achieve almost the same rate of fire as a full auto, but without the expense and paperwork of buying a real full auto machine gun. If you were to hook up an electric motor to turn that crank, though, you'd be manufacturing a machine gun.

I agree that is what I was trying to say

 

[3rdpig]

Again, a big fat NO. You cannot design a firearm that is 'readily convertable' to FA. The BATFE is not going to trust you to NOT clip that spring or whatever to only shoot semi. Otherwise we could all have FA receivers without the one magic part (like a DIAS) to make FA.... they are both readily converatalbe and a BIG NO NO.

Not only does Mythbusters need to get some NFA education... but so do THR members.

You don't know that it would be "readily convertable", you're assuming that from your lack of knowledge of my design. Clipping the spring would NOT make it full auto, it would render it inoperative after the first shot. The overtravel stop and the spring that would have to be removed, and if the stop were an intergral part of the motor housing and not easily removed then it would not be "readily convertable".

A similar device, as I stated above and you seemed to have missed, has already been approved by the ATFE.

Anyway, the final decision for something like that would rest with the ATFE, and since neither you or I are member of that agency your opinion, and mine, is worthless except for the sake of arguement, and my time is too valuable to continue the arguement. But feel free to post another couple of dozen copies in response.

 

[mrmeval]

Actually getting the buffoons to prosecute them would be a GOOD thing.

Well, then, don't draw too much attention to it, the bureaucrats might not notice. Those guys do cool stuff and I'd hate to see them cancelled or in trouble.

 

[10 Ring Tao]

If any of you guys have bit torrent, I can seed a copy of the water episode to you.

 

[c_yeager]

Again, a big fat NO. You cannot design a firearm that is 'readily convertable' to FA. The BATFE is not going to trust you to NOT clip that spring or whatever to only shoot semi. Otherwise we could all have FA receivers without the one magic part (like a DIAS) to make FA.... they are both readily converatalbe and a BIG NO NO.

Not only does Mythbusters need to get some NFA education... but so do THR members.

How about you shoot us a big fat official definition of "readily convertable", gimmie a piece of string and I can turn an Mini14 into a machinegun in about 5 seconds, does that make Ruger's little rifle into a machinegun?

 

[Flyboy]

How about you shoot us a big fat official definition of "readily convertable", gimmie a piece of string and I can turn an Mini14 into a machinegun in about 5 seconds, does that make Ruger's little rifle into a machinegun?

No, it makes the string a machinegun.

This, folks, is your government.

 

[F4GIB]

Hell the ATF has designated a shoe string a machine gun.....

I keep hearing this but I've never seen any proof. Can you post some?