NAA Mini-Master: Is .17 HMR or .22 Mag Better For Defense?

[Powder_Burn]

Does anyone know how the ballistics of the .17 HMR compare to the .22 Mag out of a 4" barrel? I was checking out the NAA Mini-Master for stealth carry. Normally I carry my S&W 360PD, but I may need something smaller in certain situations. Also any feedback on the quality of the Mini-Master would be helpful. Thanks!

 

[Crosshair]

I have handled them (22 Long Rifle) and the guy at the store says that people who buy them tend to like them. For being so small, they are very consealable, shoot well, and are better than a derringer. (5 shots vs 2, though you are screwed if you have to reload a NAA in a gunfight.) Personaly I would go with the 22 Mag and load it with as heavy a bullet as you can. You are going to loose velocity in that short barrel so you might as well make up for it in bullet weight. If you are going to use it as an ultra consealable CCW gun I would stay away from the 17 guns, You simply won't get the penitration you need since the 17 HMR is primarily a varmit round made to fragmnt on impact.

/Just my $.02

 

[nero45acp]

Forgive me for the hijack, but if you're looking for something smaller (more concealable) than a J-frame, consider a Seecamp LWS .32acp in a Hedley rear pocket holster. That set-up looks/prints like a wallet in one's back pocket. I've used that set-up for a couple of years as an alternative to my 432PD or 640 in a DeSantis "The Insider" holster, and I've been very satisfied with it.



nero

 

[BobHAJ]

Quoting Tom Gresham
With either gun the first thing you do is file off the front sight. Because if you shoot someone with either gun and they find out they are going to take that thing away from you and shove it up your nose.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

Conveniently, NAA provides this information:
http://www.naaminis.com/17velnew.html
http://www.naaminis.com/mmmagvel.html

I'm not sure how much the practical size savings will be with the 4" barrel models over your current S&W when it comes to concealment.

 

[MCgunner]

I, personally, don't see a major advantage in a short barrel in any other caliber to the .22LR. Purely for defense, the heaviest bullet you could fire out of a .22 mag the better I reckon. But, I ain't gonna replace my .38 or my 9mm with a .22 mag.

I carry my NAA .22 all the time just because it's so small. I can hit rather well with it, too. Off the sandbags, it'll shoot 5" or so at 25 yards, which don't sound really great, but what do ya expect out of a 1" barrel with such a tiny sight radius? It'll get the job done, though. I've shot sitting rabbits with it at out to about 20 yards, shot the heads off snakes at 15 or so feet, shot a feral dog in the head at 25 yards and a few possums around the house at night. The Black Widow and Mini Master have a lot longer sight radius and I'd like to have a Mini Master, in particular, to play with. The thing is still very small and light.

I wouldn't carry these things as primaries, though. Very low "stopping power" aka energy and tiny bullet mean I'd be shooting for the eye sockets, not a big target for a tiny gun. But, I figure if I'm carrying my .38 and am behind a barracade reloading and the BG charges me, it'll give me five quick shots while I fumble around for my speedloader. LOL! Better to HAVE it that NOT to have it, way I look at it. You never know when the thing will come in handy and if you got into a protracted fire fight, it COULD win the day. Those sorts of senarios are highly unlikely for an armed citizen, but it takes absolutely no effort to carry or conceal this thing. I'm wearing a pair of my "carpenter's jeans" today which have large front pockets. I've got my 9mm in a front pocket and right above it in the rather large watch pocket, I have my NAA. That's how easy it is to carry, and I have the holster grip on it that makes it a little bigger, though much more shootable. I can't shoot the danged thing with that tiny birds head one finger "grip".

 

[Phil DeGraves]

The .22 mag was designed as a rifle cartridge. Out of a short barrel, the velocity is not significantly greater than a .22 LR. You just get more muzzle flash and pay twice as much for the ammo. Really, I would be negligent if I recommended either caliber for defense of your life. I suppose it's better than nothing, but it's not much. Maybe the noise and flash will scare an attacker away. Or it may just convince him to do you real harm before you annoy him again.

 

[Powder_Burn]

Certainly the .17 HMR and a .22 Mag are inadequate. That's why I would have my .357 99% of the time. However given the choice between the NAA and a rock that may/may not be on the ground, what would you go with? I trying to figure out which caliber has the most energy (not velocity) out of a 4" barrel. Thanks much for all of your input.

 

[Crosshair]

How well would the .22 SSS ammo do as a defencive round in a 22 NAA. That 60 grain bullet has to do somethingwhen it goes through a person.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

I trying to figure out which caliber has the most energy (not velocity) out of a 4" barrel.

With the velocity and the bullet weight, both of which I provided, you can easily find the energy.

From: http://medlib.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNBLST.html

The external ballistics of a bullet's path can be determined by several formulae, the simplest of which is:

Kinetic Energy (KE) = 1/2 MV2

Velocity (V) is usually given in feet/second (fps) and mass (M) is given in pounds, derived from the weight (W) of the bullet in grains, divided by 7000 grains per pound times the acceleration of gravity (32 ft/sec) so that:

Kinetic Energy (KE) = W(V)2 / (450,435) ft/lb

Or you can just plug it in this handy calculator using the information from the links I provided above.
http://www.reloadammo.com/footpound2.htm

 

[MCgunner]

None of the choices in caliber for NAA minis is adequate, so what's the point of comparing inadequate amounts of energy in three calibers? A agree with the assessment that in such short barrels, about all the mag or .17 offer over a standard .22 LR is flash/bang. That's why I have a mini in .22LR. It's also more compact than the magnum version, not that the magnum is big or anything. You pay the price for .22 mag loads, too. If I need more'n the .22, I always have a .38 or 9mm on me, occasionally in the winter, even a .45.

But, as stated, do the calculations. Energy roughly equals bullet weight divided by 450400 multiplied times the velocity squared.

 

[emjimb]

22 mag "shot shell"

No one has mentioned what I use in my Little guy ---22 mag by CCI w/shot shell ------use that round up close on some targets /check out the result and ask yourself if you would want to be shot with it

 

[Double Naught Spy]

17 hmr NAA mini revolver...

Oh, you must need a mosquito gun for Alaska.

 

[ETXhiker]

Good grief. And I was debating whether a Kel-Tec .32 would be enough to actually feel like I was carrying a gun.

But this does bring up something I've wondered about - out of one of the NAA minis, does a .22 mag really make much improvement over .22 LR from such a short barrel? Anybody chronographed the two for comparison?

 

[Ohen Cepel]

Go with the .22 mag, heavier bullet and you can put "snake shot" in it for more utility.

The NAA's are great guns and are much better than a pointy stick! I wouldn't take one to a gun fight. However, I wouldn't take any pistol to a gun fight.

 

[MCgunner]

No one has mentioned what I use in my Little guy ---22 mag by CCI w/shot shell ------use that round up close on some targets /check out the result and ask yourself if you would want to be shot with it

I tell ya what, let's back off to 25 yards, I'll give you the first shot. Then, I get my turn with my 9mm.

Snake shot? If I was blind, maybe. I have yet to have a problem at snake shootin' ranges hittin' a snake's head with my NAA .22 and a 38 grain hollow point, though.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

ETXhiker, NAA has some comparisons on this page: http://www.naaminis.com/naaveloc.html

 

[Terrierman]

As a rule of thumb, you can expect a .22 WMR to have similar velocity and energy from a pistol as a .22LR has from a rifle. Significant difference but still not enough gun to consider it a high choice in the personal defense role.

 

[Phil DeGraves]

Not necessarily. In very short barrels, the 22 mag has only 4-12 fps greater velocity than the 22lr from the same barrel, at twice the cost and muzzle blast.

 

[Boom-stick]

There is a reason for the mini revolvers being called the 'nose spray from hell'

 

[Phil DeGraves]

"No one has mentioned what I use in my Little guy ---22 mag by CCI w/shot shell ------use that round up close on some targets /check out the result and ask yourself if you would want to be shot with it "

I don't want to get shot with anything, but if I was choosing ammo for the other guy to have, the 22 shot shell would be close to the top of the list. Might hurt some and cause a nasty looking surface wound, but unlikely to do enough damage to stop a serious attack even if hit in the right place...not nearly as effective as a solid projectile. Good on mice though without blowing them to bits.

 

[MCgunner]

I don't want to get shot with anything, but if I was choosing ammo for the other guy to have, the 22 shot shell would be close to the top of the list. Might hurt some and cause a nasty looking surface wound, but unlikely to do enough damage to stop a serious attack even if hit in the right place...not nearly as effective as a solid projectile. Good on mice though without blowing them to bits.

Yeah, and since I wear corrective lenses, safety glass, if I was adrenalized, I doubt I'd even flinch! I've used snake shot on the back porch on mice. I have a dryer cord with shot holes in it and hit the washer hoses, no leaks. You've gotta be 3 feet from a mouse to kill it out of that 1" barrel, though. Yeah, the terminal ballistics don't impress me one bit. Not exactly buck shot, there.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

Not necessarily. In very short barrels, the 22 mag has only 4-12 fps greater velocity than the 22lr from the same barrel, at twice the cost and muzzle blast.

Care to provide a source for that claim? The links I posted above disagree with that. Granted, they are from the company's site, so they should be taken with a grain of salt. On their board, the user cjw posts some numbers that support theirs.

If you use the NAA information for all the 40 gr rounds out of a 1 1/8" barrel, they list the mean .22 LR velocities at 8 feet as: 586, 624, 681, 712, 725, 679, 715, 727, 677, 685, 718, and 653. For .22 WMR in 40 gr, again at 8 feet, they list 788, 811, 802, 879, and 878.

If you take the fastest LR (727) vs the slowest WMR (788), you still have a 61 fps difference. If you average the velocities (LR = 682, WMR = 832) you get a difference of 150 fps.

From the 1 5/8" barrel, the average difference grows to 181 fps using 40 gr ammo. The 4" barrel, which the original poster is asking about has the average velocity of 874 for LR and 1026 for WMR.

So what does this mean as far as energy?
From the 1 1/8" barrel, the average .22 LR delivers 41.3 ft/lbs at 8 feet. The .22 Mag steps that up to 61.5 ft/lbs.

From the 1 5/8" barrel, the .22 LR produces 41.8 ft/lbs, while the .22 mag weighs in at 66.8 ft/lbs.

From the 4" barrel, the LR has 67.8 ft/lbs and the mag is up to 93.5 ft/lbs.

It appears there is a substantial difference between .22 LR and .22 Mag (WMR), even out of barrels as short as 1 1/8".

 

[lesjones]

I bought a NAA Black Widow 2" thinking it would be a good carry gun when even a 642 would be tough to carry. What I found out is that the 642 will go most places the Black Widow will go. It's neat, but I just don't carry or shoot the NAA.

One thing I don't like about the minis is that they have zero intimidation factor. If you have to carry one when you draw it be sure to shout "Watch out! I have a gun!" Otherwise the bad guy may not notice.

 

[Ultraman]

NAA Mini quality is top notch!
The Black Widow is my favorite but the little 1 & 1/8" Mini Revolver is my "always" BUG (back up gun).