Nagant or Enfield (and in 308 or 303)

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T

TCB in TN

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Looked for a thread on this but didn't find one. I am thinking about a getting a couple of old mil surp rifles, and was trying to decide between the Nagant or the Enfield, and if I go with the Enfield should I go with the 303 or the 308. I took a couple of old Enfield 303's in a horse trade years ago, but never shot either of them, I ended up trading them to a local pawn shop on a Browning 270. (My only real experience with mil surp rifles is the old 1903 my grandfather left me.) So you mil surp experts please let me know which way you would go and why. Thanks in advance.
 
Personally, I L-O-V-E my Mosin Nagants. I have one m91/30 with no import markings, and three m44's (two laminated). I like to shoot the m44's the most due to the recoil/loud factor of them...very accurate.

Another thing to think about is the price of .308 right now...it keeps going up and up. You can still get 7.72x54R for ~.09 a round for mil surplus and it shoots great. And you can get two or three Mosins for the price of 1 Enfield.

But, you can't go wrong with both! :neener:
 
i think one of the first questions people are gonna ask is what kind of mosin. there are a lot of varients out there.

my thoughts are get both ;) both are great guns and will treat you right, wether youre hunting, plinking or collecting.

im not nearly as educated on enfields like a lot of guys here, so i wont talk about them to save myself some embarrasment.

i will say this though, 7.62 ammo is relatively cheap, if that sways your decision.

good luck
 
I love my old 1903, I killed my first deer with it. Cut my center fire teeth on it. Would love to have 2 or 3 more just like it. Problem is that most of the ones I have found are not is nearly as good condition.

I found several decent deals on M44 nagants, $95 to $110 for one with a good bore, solid bolt, and an ok stock. The Enfields have been more expensive, but still in the $150 to $175 range and in pretty decent shape. I plan on making shooters out of them, not that big on wall pcs.
 
I have an Enfield No.4 Mk1 (.303) that I picked up a while back for about $110 and a Nagant 91/30 ex-sniper that I picked up for $99.

I say you can't go wrong with a Nagant or Enfield just decide which one appeals to you more right now and next month get the other one.:D

AS for caliber, I like my surplus rifles in the original calibers but thats just a personal preference, so I would say .303. I also don't trust shooting .308Win through rechambered surplus rifles, I've heard enough more knowledgable people say you shouldn't so I don't. Also I can buy S&B .303 and Wolf for about the same price as commercial .308 anyway. However if you can get your hands on cheap surplus 7.62N then .308 may be the better option for you. Personally I think the .303 is a pretty cool round though.:cool:

Good luck with your decision!
 
If you reload I would get the lee enfield, preferably a no. 4 mk11. The smoothness of the bolt will amaze you. They are easy to clean and maintain and a joy to shoot (not much recoil). Parts are easy to get. You can tighten up the headspace by just unscrewing the bolt head a getting another in a larger size (they come in increments of .003".)

If you don't reload and you don't have $$$ for ammo get the nagant if you plan on doing a lot of shooting.

Both rifles are of sound design and are well made. The nagant will kick more than the enfield. The sights are better on the enfield no. 4.

Be sure to look at the bore real good on both as most ammo was corrosive (all corrisive for the .303). Most of the bores will be dark as mine was, but she cleaned up real well. I think the Pakastanies are still making the lee enfield - that should give you a clue as to what great battle rifles they were.


Good luck
 
I'm planning on picking up a Enfield in a couple weeks. I hope they have one at the gun show I'm going to. What is the best indication that the rifle was produced in Pakistan?

I'm looking for a British or American .303.

I can't wait... Can you shot normal .303 through it or do I need to buy surplus ammo? I know, I''m such a newb...

Chad
 
IMO the Enfield is a far better rifle, its more accurate and the smoothness of the bolt is like no other rifle I have ever shot. It is the best of all the bolt action battle rifles, battle being the key word. However I have not seen any cheep 303 ammo in quit a while, so if you want cheep ammo then buy the Mosin Nagant. It's not a bad rifle just not up to par with the Enfield.

Can you shot normal .303 through it or do I need to buy surplus ammo? Yes you can shoot new production ammo out of a Enfield, that is about the only ammo you can find.
 
I'm planning on picking up a Enfield in a couple weeks. I hope they have one at the gun show I'm going to. What is the best indication that the rifle was produced in Pakistan?

I'm looking for a British or American .303.

The markings will easily tell you.

http://enfieldrifles.profusehost.net/gh.htm

This page has the majority of the markings you will find and should show you how to spot who made what and which countries own what.

US made Lee Enfields will cost you more for the US property mark on the side.

The No1 Mk3 Australian Lee Enfields made at the Lithgow plant are rather nice too.

My favourite No4 Mk1s tend to be the Canadian made ones at the Longbranch plant.

If you are looking for a shooter go with a No4 Mk2. They are all made in Britain but theres a very good chance you could find one thats never been fired or had little use from it.
 
i dont have an enfield but i have a mosin nagant m44 and a 91/30. theyre fun and cheap to shoot, with the stock iron sights you can hit out to 300 yrds no problem. if youre looking at surplus bolt actions dont forget about the mausers. you can get a k98 for about the same price as an enfield. i dont know about the enfield but the mausers have alot smoother bolt pull than the mosins. whatever you get i dont think you can go wrong.
 
Enfield or Mosin? I recommend the Enfield. My No.4Mk2 Fazakerly is in the original .303 and not only does it have that slick bolt action, it's also very accurate. It helps that mine has the micrometer rear sight.

Do you handload? Seems like most times somebody starts a .303 thread, it turns into a discussion on handloading. From my reading, and I have a link on this, Mk8 ball is a 175gr BT-FMJ running 2440fps. That would be the match load and Hornady makes such a bullet as a component. And Mk7 ball is a 174gr flat base running 2440fps. But, if you're already handloading .30-06, you can get a whole lot of good shooting out of the '03 you mentioned. They're both great old rifles.
 
i have been debating the same question for a long time.

ultimately it came down to ammo. I have tons of 8mm and even more tons of x54r. i don't want to have to buy tons of 303.

then again, reloading the 303 isn't so bad.

i will probably get one just because, but personally out of all my milsursp i like the finnish m39 sako mosins teh best.
 
I have Enfields in both .303 and .308, I also have a Mosin Nagant M38.

By far my 1942 Enfield in .303 is my favorite.

My 1962 Enfield in .308 is not exactly a tack driver but it does what it was designed to do. Accuracy is minute of man at 200 yards.

The M38 is AWESOME for its muzzle blast and flash, and it is surprisingly accurate for using surplus ammo. I have been able to get 3" MOA at 100 yards with 1950's vintage ammo. For my skills that is pretty good.

The reasons I like my .303 Enfield so much are the amazing accuracy I get with handloads, the very pretty look of the rifle, the "snick" of that finely machined bolt, and the incredible history that goes with its year of production.

If you buy an Enfield in .303 be prepared to handload or pay a premium for ammo! I have a bunch of WWII surplus .303 British ammo that is corrosive and charged with cordite. The stuff is rotten with hangfires, the cordite supposedly accelerates throat erosion, and it is really inaccurate. I have been pulling it apart just to salvage the projectiles, it's also cool to save up a big bag of cordite then light it with a length of cannon fuse, what a fireball, that stuff burns HOT!

Back on topic, with 36.5 grains of IMR 4064 under the surplus bullets I get sub 2" MOA at 100 yards, with 1926 FPS average, and a very light recoil. It is a great "just for fun" load! I think it is pretty respectable for a 65 year old rifle.

Just my two cents, take it for what it's worth.
 
If you opt for the Enfield, check the headspace before you shoot it. Even if the serial numbers match. There have been thousands of 'em assembled out of parts bins with zero QC. You have no idea if the bolt head on a matching bolt is the original bolt head either.
Moisins don't have this issue but check its headspace too.
 
careful, Mosins are addictive! :neener:

I like the bolt on the Enfield, it's really smooth and pretty accurate, but the ammo may be tough to find when it comes to cheapie stuff. The surplus smells like rotted eggs too.:scrutiny:

However

The mosin nagants are fun on their own, they're inexpensive to buy and feed. Some pieces have long histories attached to them when you look at the proof marks. Some can even have histories as long as going through the hands of the royalists, communists, facists, and capitalists over the course of it's lifetime:what: ! It's all in the marks.

It's a tough call, better get both :D
 
For accuracy, ease of bolt operation (speed/effort), and looks, I like my Savage Enfield No.4 Mk1 better than my mosin.For tons of REALLY cheap shooting, really loud booms and muzzle flash, and general fun,I like my m44 better...
 
I have both(4mk1 and 91/30),and I love both.But if I could only keep one of the two I would pick the 4mk1,It is my second favorate milsurp next to my K31 swiss.
 
I wouldn't consider it an "OR" question, more a matter of "Which one first?". If you plan on using actually using the rifle for hunting or shooting for accuracy, go with the SMLE first. For shooting for just the fun of it, MN.

My opinion is that the MN is more fun to shoot, but the SMLE makes shooting fun.
 
I have 2 Mosin Nagant rifles and an Enfield in .30-06, both are great and both are very different. If I had to choose one it would be the Nagant because of the availablilty of cheap surplus ammo even though I like the Enfield better.
 
If shooting factory ammo is your go, the Mosin Nagant would be the better choice it seems, 303 ammo is available (mostly, can't get it in Australia at the moment), but 7.62x54 is everywhere. If the Russians ever replace it, the market will be swamped with it. I have a Remington made one, like it a lot. I also have a smick No4 Mk1, it is a beautiful rifle, but cost heaps more than the M/N. I reload for both, so it doesn't matter to me, mil ammo is not much cheaper than commercial stuff here, so I don't bother with it and prefer to cast anyway.

I sold a pristine No4 Lithgow 7.62 conversion to a collector mate. I'm a bit leery about these conversions, stretching the envelope. Most decent gunsmiths in Australia will fit a 7.62 Bbl for you, but insist that it goes to Lithgow for re-proofing. I've never heard a gunsmith here mention proofing, but they always seem to with No4 conversions. I'd buy an Ishapore (blunt object :) ) if shooting 7.62 mil ammo is what you want to do, they are a lot stronger, being made from better steel.

I'll have to take a few pics of my M/N.
 
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