Name this automatic rifle, the county of origin, and the caliber.

[Andrew Wyatt]

I came upin a picture of an antomatic rifle in one of my books i've never heard about from any other source, and figured i'd scan and post a picture of it.

Can you name the name of the gun, its country of origin, and its caliber?


my scanner is limited in size, so i had to (crappily) scan it twice and paste them together.

 

[m14nut]

the trigger, mag and stock resemble a British enfield....

 

[dangerousdude]

Looks like one of those home made guns from Peshawar Pakistan.

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

you're wrong, so far.


m-14 nut was closer, but still not very.

 

[Chris Rhines]

I don't recall the name, but it is indeed a converted Lee-Enfield SMLE, .303 Brit, and if memory serves it's from Australia.

- Chris

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

right caliber, wrong country.

 

[Skofnung]

I can't remember the name, I think the name starts with "C" but it is either from Australia or New Zealand and it is in .303 British.

It was a conversion of an Enfield (SMLE) to serve as a LMG due to the shortages in the commonwealth around WWII if memory serves.

I will have to check my references when I get home from work.

 

[glockten]

The Charlton light machine gun, .303 British, from New Zealand. My reference shows it with a Bren magazine.

Great Googolymoogoly, what an ugly weapon!

 

[Nightcrawler]

"Build it yourself, son?"

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

It is indeed a charlton LMG, which was converted from number1mk3s during WWII.

could you post a pic of what it shows in your reference? does the bren magazine enter from the bottom?

 

[4v50 Gary]

Ugly, yes. Besides the 10 round SMLE magazine, this New Zealand modificaton from Charlton's Motor Workshop could take an modified 30 rd Bren Gun magazine too. It was capable of full auto fire. But consider that the common bolt action rifle can be converted to semi-auto with some clever engineering. Outlaw semi-autos? I don't think so.

It's on page 474-475 of Ian Skennerton's The Lee-Enfield Story. There are other conversions in there too - this is just the ugliest.

 

[glockten]

Can't post the pic Andrew, but it shows the Bren mag in the same place as the Enfield mag in your photo.

Page 359 of Military Small Arms Of The 20th Century, 7th Edition.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Similar concept to that submachine gun attachment to the 1903 Springfield during the Great War.

You know what would just be AWESOME? A reliable, semiauto attachment made for a Yugo M48 Mauser, using those 20-round Mauser mags, still being able to feed from strippers. Chop the barrel back to say, 20", and replace the bayonet lug so that big pig sticker can be put on there...

*drool*

 

[Jim K]

Hi, Nightcrawler and folks.

The "submachine gun attachment" to the Model 1903, aka the Pedersen Device, aka Pistol, Cal .30, Model of 1918, was semi-auto, so it wasn't a "submachinegun".

The Charlton was a tour de force. While the intent was good, it would probably have been easier to just manufacture a new light machine gun. It does show, though, how far people will go to meet a challenge.

Jim

 

[ShaiVong]

Ugly isn't really the right word for it though. I'm thinking FUGLY. Uglyer than ugly.

 

[glockten]

Ian Hogg, in the book I mentioned above, describes it as "an almost incredible feat of adaptation" and "one of the few conversions of a manual rifle to automatic fire that ever worked properly." It had a cyclic rate of about 500 rpm.

 

[Tamara]

Wasn't JMB's first gas-operated gun a modified lever action?

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

the scan was from the illustrated encyclopedia of firearms.



say, would a bolt to semi conversion be legal, as long as it wasn't full auto?

 

[THA]

Philip Charlton, he converted approx 2000 from Long Lee Enfields after he recieved a patent in 1941. Plant was in Hastings, New Zealand. Weight 16.5 lbs, and cyclic rate of 700 rds/minute. Gas operated and fed with a 30 rd mag but could use the standard 10 rd Lee Enfield mag. Also several thousand were converted in Australia by Electrolux Co. I have a full description of the conversion process if anybody is interested.

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

no crap? can you post it up?

 

[THA]

Essentially the converfsion consisted of fitting a cylinder on the right side of the weapon originating at a point approximately midpoint of the barrel and extending beyond the rear of the action. This cylinder acted as a gas cylinder in its forward part and a piston tube for the remainder. The piston rod is attached to a slide which has an inclined cam that operates on the bolt handle stub pulling it ot the rear and opening the action. A spring attached to the lower portion of the piston is mounted in a cylinder below the gas cylinder and returns the slide and piston forward.The standard Lee trigger mechanism has been modified by the addition of a disconnector system. A selector is mounted behind the trigger and engages the trigger. Setting it on safe prevents rearward movement of the trigger, setting it on "R" allows the trigger to rotate far enough to the rear to allow single shots to be fired and setting it on "A" lets the trigger come fully to the rear producing full automatic fire.

Since automatic weapons were in shortage, Charlton deemed this conversion as one way to supply automatic weapons.

Ain't I smart??? I just know where to look.

 

[Dionysusigma]

Heck, I took one look at that thing and got shivers from how... awful it looked. Wouldn't you just love to clean it?

You know what would just be AWESOME? A reliable, semiauto attachment made for a Yugo M48 Mauser, using those 20-round Mauser mags, still being able to feed from strippers. Chop the barrel back to say, 20", and replace the bayonet lug so that big pig sticker can be put on there...

-NightCrawler


Maybe the FG42?

 

[Nightcrawler]

I'd LOVE an FG-42. Unfortuantely, they're a bit on the rare side, and probably littlebit overcomplex, but they were ahead of their time. The first modern, magazine fed main battle rifle (with greater capacity than the 10 rounds of the G43 and Tokarev, and probably a better design), and it was even issued with a scope.

 

[Shamaya]

Can you name the name of the gun, its country of origin, and its caliber?

Assault Weapon. Only evil people own them, most of whom are cultists who believe they should be able to control their own destiny by force if necessary.

 

[Badger Arms]

Hmmmm, Australian conversion of an Enfield No1 MK III to autoloader. Caliber .303.