National CCW for Police Passes Committee

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No, it's not a step in the right direction.

Until the LEO requirement is removed, the law is an abomination. LEOs already think they're better than us mere serfs (as evidenced by a thread in the Roundtable forum), we don't need to add to that.
 
I agree with Reno. This legislation is a serious problem. First, it creates a privileged class of citizens. Second, it reinforces the idea that firearm possesion is a privilege to be granted by the government. Both of these concepts are trouble for our rights.

If this passes it should immediately be challenged in the Ninth Circuit, where the court ruled, in Silveira vs Lockyer, that the state cannot create a privileged class of citizens.
 
WRONG!!!

What this law does is establish a precedent of national concealed carry. As with state CCW laws, once it has been shown to be effective, then work can begin to expand it to private citizens.

I agree that any concealed carry law is fundamentally unconstitutional, but the political reality is that such laws exist, they are enforced, and must be counteracted one step at a time.
 
Very bad idea.

I don't know about you but I am not a second-class citizen.

No special deals for "special" people.

The POLICE work these deals in state legislatures all the time. They never "lead" the way for the rest of us. All the special deals do is remove any possiblity of widespread police support for a more general provision. Any claim otherwise is (1) unsupported by any legislative experience anywhere and (2) pure B. S. purveyed by those who will benefit from the special deal.
 
shep854, you say that these laws are unconstitutional and that they should be conteracted, but you're supporting their expansion. Sounds contradictory.

Once a law is in place it is very difficult to have it removed. Better to nip it in the bud.
 
It's a bad law from start to finish and all parts between. Carrying firearms is better left to the states, where we, the people, at least stand a chance.

What the great white father giveth, the great white father taketh away.
 
Oookay. I just finished reading the thread in the roundtable forum, and it seems to me that there is an irreconcilable divide on the subject. Personally, I am very supportive of the police, despite a couple of problems I've had. As was stated on "that" thread, cops are people too, both good and bad (mostly good, tho)

I consider myself a strict constructionist of the Constitution, but I'm also a realist about the process. IMHO, this is a form of "political judo", which can ultimately help restore the rights that have been frittered away.

As for the passionately held views on all sides, we'll have to agree to disagree.
 
Aside from the issue of deciding whether police should have a higher level of favor over the common law abiding citizen, I am carefully looking over all legislation that creeps up between now and Sept 14. My concern mainly being:

Does this legislation have the possibility of having the Feinstein AWB Bill being added onto it as an amendment, and being signed into law by the Republicans as good legislation that our Law Enforcement community deserves. Yep, wouldn't that be a gem of a bill for the Democrats to present for passage that would be hard for our Republicans to refuse?!!
 
shep, this will do absolutely nothing to restore rights to us "serfs." Giving the police more perks will only increase the divide, and make it less likely for the rest of us to get our rights back.

Folks, this is the time to call and write your representatives. If this gets to the senate, it WILL pass (91-8 last time), and there isn't a chance Bush will veto it, he won't even veto bills he consider unconstitutional.
 
VaniB has a sobering point, about tacking the AWB onto this bill. If this is done, I am for the bill's defeat, since it would certainly restrict our rights even more.

Reno, I most resectfully disagree with you. It may be because our respective locations and the political climates we each live in, but I have no sence of "serfdom" in relation to the police. Yes, I'm aware of abuses and attitudes (remember the "Southern Sheriff" stereotype?), but I've always treated LEOs with courtesy and respect (NOT subservience) and have had little trouble.

Back to the bill: Many of the pols who have come on board have previously been as opposed to off-duty and retired LEOs carrying as they are to private citizens. I see this bill as a small step in regaining our rights.

The gun-grabbers have been working on this since the mid-Sixties (earlier, if you count NFA and the "Sullivan laws" of NYC). They have been willing to take a small nibble at a time from our rights, and never give up. On the other hand, we (the God Guys) tend to try to get it all at once, then go and sulk if we don't. We didn't get into this state overnight, and, barring some sort of miracle, we won't get out overnight.

If, in this go-'round, we can overturn the AWB and take back a little of our rights under the Constitution, even if only for a particular group, it will be a victory, and a shift in momentum.
 
"All animals are equal; some are more equal then others." I don't see this doing a damn thing to help the rest of us in this matter. Never have I seen a "get it for the cops now and for the rest of us later" bill that actually did work out that way, human nature being inclined toward the "I got mine and to hell with anybody else" more often then not. :fire: :banghead:
 
After the way I was treated recently by the police, I say screw them. They shouldn't even be allowed to carry outside of the city/county/jurisdiction where they work without a permit that is just like one us "civilians" have to get, and it should be no different for them to get said permit than it is for us "civilians" either.
 
Hmm, not that it would have a chance in Hell, but what about tacking on an amendment(ala feinstein) which extends the bill to include ALL US citizens?
It would be mighty interesting. But then, what do I know? But maybe some wildly progun politician would try it?
 
No way do I support this. Their aligience is to the government agency that employs them. Making cops into permanant super citizens just because they steal for the government is the path to a police state, not the way to get a free and open society. Having laws applied equally to everyone is supposed to prevent unjust laws from being passed. How often have you seen a cop give another cop a ticket? The politicians and the cops would not pass or support the laws that are intended to generate revenue if they thought they were included in the "target class" and would have the quota system applied to them. Stealing is not any more right just because it is condoned by the state. The cops around have a "everyone's a perp" attitude. Any that expect respect in return should be checked for drugs.

mountainclmbr-a member of the "target class"
 
Any Federal CCW is a bad thing. Did you guys listen to what Kennedy was blabbing about during lawsuit reform? He wants to require everyone to get training for each firearm they carry, no carry in any place that sells any alcohol, by schools, etc, etc. Federal CCW is the worst thing that can happen to us.
 
National CCW for cops only is a terrible idea.

"Equality of the law" is one of the cornerstones of a Constitutional Republic. If a law is so bad that certain segments of the public are exempt from it, then it should be repealed. Likewise, if a law is good, it should apply equally to everyone.

I also don't like the idea of federalizing CCW permits. Once the feds get control over something, they aren't going to give it up, and will only add more regulations and restrictions.

One thing I would support is some sort of expanded "peaceable journey" laws, whereby anyone who can legally carry in their home state, can carry while traveling or vacationing or working in another state.

Then again, a law (the 2nd amendment) already exists so cops and anyone else can carry nationwide, but it's not recogized.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when a LEO is out of his jurisdiction (meaning like, in another state) he has no authority. If he draws and uses his weapon while out of his jurisdiction, it should be treated like any other citizen shooting.

Wasn't there a proposal somewhere else to allow Ex LEO's the right to carry nationwide as well? Since they are no longer sworn officers, their CCW would be exclusively for their own protection. A right that I believe should be extended to ALL citizens.

This is similar to the PRNJ mandating the use of "smart guns" when the technology becomes available, but exempting law enforcement agencies from the requirement.
 
All this does is extend the "Us vs Them" fealing that is permiating this country.

Furthermore i think national CCW is a very BAD idea. I for one do NOT want the feds deciding what is required for me to obtain a permit.

Remember both Los Angelos and New York HAVE a CCW permit system. Would you REALLY want that to be the national model?
 
shep854

WRONG!!!

What this law does is establish a precedent of national concealed carry. As with state CCW laws, once it has been shown to be effective, then work can begin to expand it to private citizens.
Click to expand...
By your logic, we should allow our military to carry select-fire weapons, and if it works out, we'll let everyone have them.... Riiiiiiight....

Just remember, once it's Federal, you're screwed. Don't like AWB's or the fact that you have to buy certain government 'approved' handguns? Move from California or New Jersey. When it's federal, you're done.
 
So the prevailing attitude is:"If (I) cannot have it, nobody can?" So the principle of CCW is less important than the way it is applied- instead of CCW for some you would rather not have anyone have it at all.
 
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