mortablunt
Member
^ I wouldn't sell if someone implied that they might be prohibited. It's not only because of the legal aspect, but rather, that it would be unethical to put money over people.
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NBC airing "investigation" into online gunsales tomorrow.
- Thread starter KW84
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I would bet that many of these guns taken into evidence by police and feds, wind up in some agents safe. I can't see throwing away a perfectlly new 10,000 dollar 50 cal rifle. The gun doesn't know the difference. Easy to sidline a couple on the way to the destruction site from the evidence room. And who is going to know, if it's just a couple of agents in charge of them, don't you think that one may say, hey thats a new Wilson, in the box, I'm taking it home, screw this. It's not like drugs, "which don't always end up where they are supposed to either" it makes good tv, but I bet we use a lot of this stuff for the CIA to arm gorrila bands of rebels "Off the books", they sure don't go into a gun store and pay good money for them.
Onward Allusion
Member
Ok - I'm going to ask a few questions that will tick off some/most of y'all, so flame-suit on...
- Who here would sell a gun to someone who said that they wouldn't pass a background check - even in jest? My first question to the prospective buyer would be "er, what do you mean?". From there my chubby gut, spidey sense, intuition what ever you call it takes over.
- Who here would sell a gun without a bill of sale that has the both the buyer's info on it, including DL #.
- How many would *buy* a gun from "some guy" w/o the above?
Yes, the "news" story appears to be skewed and sensationalistic, but it has a few good points. The point is that a few <fill in the blank> sellers will spoil it for the rest of us. Yes, I have traded cash for gun in a parking lot but it was with a Bill of Sale & DL info exchange. It protects everyone involved. Common sense crap.
- Who here would sell a gun to someone who said that they wouldn't pass a background check - even in jest? My first question to the prospective buyer would be "er, what do you mean?". From there my chubby gut, spidey sense, intuition what ever you call it takes over.
- Who here would sell a gun without a bill of sale that has the both the buyer's info on it, including DL #.
- How many would *buy* a gun from "some guy" w/o the above?
Yes, the "news" story appears to be skewed and sensationalistic, but it has a few good points. The point is that a few <fill in the blank> sellers will spoil it for the rest of us. Yes, I have traded cash for gun in a parking lot but it was with a Bill of Sale & DL info exchange. It protects everyone involved. Common sense crap.
General Geoff
Member
Of all the guns I've sold, I've never written up a bill of sale or required seeing DL or other ID. Cash & carry. In PA, unfortunately pistol sales must go through an FFL anyway.
I have also purchased several firearms private party, and have never had to fill out a bill of sale or show ID to complete the transaction. Again, referring to long gun sales only due to state law regarding pistol transfers.
other than online stores, I don't even know where to go to buy FTF from a individual.
as for the local yokels, I only hear about someone having something for sale looooong after its already gone, and its dang rare I hear even that much.
guess i'd make a pathetic criminal trying to get a illegal firearm.
as for the local yokels, I only hear about someone having something for sale looooong after its already gone, and its dang rare I hear even that much.
guess i'd make a pathetic criminal trying to get a illegal firearm.
Armchair Bronco
Member
Someone needs to make sure those "journalists" get a copy of this really helpful guide to identifying the AK-47 and the Glock. Both of these guns are apparently rampant at gun sales and online.
JustinJ
Member
Instead of taking turns nitpicking unimportant details such as wether or not there is technically something more powerful than a .50 or that the sks already shoots the 7.62 why not discuss what the report is actually about? It is after all true that unregulated private sales do provide an opportunity for people who are unable to pass a NICs check to get guns. How much does this really contribute to gun crimes? Why is it not less or more? Does that amount warrant new legislation and why or why not? Should we as the gun community look for ways to regulate ourselves rather than just hope the government doesnt?
Me. I have a carry permit, and most people I buy/sell from/to have one as well. If they've got a carry permit that matches their ID, then I could care less about who they are.
I don't see a reason that a gun sale requires a permanent record.
Steel Horse Rider
Member
I remember a letter from James Madison to Thomas Jefferson suggesting that the Constitution including a provision to allow Congress to regulate who are the "right" people to allow ownership of weapons............ NOT!
JustinJ
Member
I would never sell a gun to another person without some sort of record, permit or not. A permit in no way guarantess the gun will never be used in a crime by the buyer or someone he sells it to or someone who steals it from him. Yeah, it would be hard to prove i fired a dropped gun that killed someone just because i'm the original owner but i'm not to eager to go through that hassle and pay for a lawyer. I'm not going to report the sale to the police but will hang onto the records in case a knock out the door ever comes.
to each their own. 
There are some here though, who are mostly rational, that don't see any problem with undocumented sales.
There are some here though, who are mostly rational, that don't see any problem with undocumented sales.
carbuncle
Member
If someone mentioned to me that they couldn't pass a BG check, there would be no sale. I do like to see a DL & CCW for eligibility verification but I don't do a bill of sale, I've bought and sold many a firearm this way.
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Kingofthehill
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I prefer to buy my guns private party. Simply put i don't want the government knowing about them.
Secondly, does anyone with a brain think they would actually show a seller who asked for paperwork/ID/Bill Of Sale?
I love how they say "Does it bother you that you sold something to someone that could seriously hurt or kill other people".... And a vehicle can do that too.... so could a pool... Why aren't they going after Doctors/pharmacies to say they are giving too many pain killers to people?
I hate the news, bunch of idiots.
Secondly, does anyone with a brain think they would actually show a seller who asked for paperwork/ID/Bill Of Sale?
I love how they say "Does it bother you that you sold something to someone that could seriously hurt or kill other people".... And a vehicle can do that too.... so could a pool... Why aren't they going after Doctors/pharmacies to say they are giving too many pain killers to people?
I hate the news, bunch of idiots.
Onward Allusion
Member
But you at least check 'em out... Their CCW permit serves as confirmation that they're legal. I have a this and another from another State to prove that I'm legal, but that isn't the point. The point is that the bill-of-sale and seller/buyer info/receipt protects both parties. Who's to say the gun that you're buying isn't stolen? If it is, what proof do you have that you actually bought it? What if the person you bought it from needed cash so they sell the gun and then turnaround and file an insurance claim?
What if the gun you sell is used in a crime later and is then traced back to you? What are you going to tell the authorities? Er, I sold it to some guy that showed me his CCW. Nope, can't really remember his name. Yes, legal but very uncomfortable.
What about the guy who sells w/o checking anything and also forgoes the receipt? Going to the extreme, seller sells a gun to a felon and has no permanent information on the buyer. Felon goes and does a crime with the gun. Gun gets traced back to the seller. Authorities are going to ask - "Why did you let a felon have access to a gun?" "Um, I sold it to him, Officer."... "Where's the receipt?"
It's about protecting yourself - not trying to save the world.
Isaac-1
Member
All of these potential problems would be solved if there were no paperwork trail to the original buyer
we are not amused
Member
to each their own.
There are some here though, who are mostly rational, that don't see any problem with undocumented sales.
Right on!
While I would never sell to someone I knew (or suspected) was a felon, I see no need to document the sale. While I might if it were a really big amount of money involved, I really don't anticipate doing so. So far all my private gun sales are to people I personally know, and often involved gun trades, mine for yours, plus or minus a bit of cash.
My main public position on what I will do with my guns if they ever pass a firearms ban and confiscation,is to tell the gun grabbers when they come for mine, is that I stood on the corner of street with a sign, guns for sale, and sold them all to people with baggy pants, bandannas and tattoos, for cash, and no, I didn't get their names.
A buddy of mine sold a gun about 10 years ago that was eventually used in a murder. Since he was the original purchaser the law came to him to find out what had happened with the gun. He had the BOS from where he sold the gun so he was in the clear but it still cost him a lot of time and hassle.
mortablunt
Member
^ Yep! Note: it is technically legal for you to buy almost everything short of guided missiles, WMD's, and MG's made after 1986. I have found that it is perfectly legal for me to purchase BDU's, class III/IV body armor, firearms, and other such gear online. I actually run a sort of business where I sell camouflage and tactical gear to paintball, airsoft, and Humans Versus Zombies players. I also buy a little for myself and just ordered some MVD issue camo.
needmorecowbell
Member
Just had a brilliant idea. What if they got and kept the criminals off the street? Do you think that might help? Maybe no need for background checks all together. Dang Bloomberg following liberals. Let me tell you why I get infuriated over all this. I'm a foster parent and have adopted several drug babies, and when you work within the system, you realize that the Police and other agencies can tell you where all the drug houses are, where many of the criminals are, gang members are, who they are, but they don't have the power to remove them off the streets and even if they did arrest them all they'd all be back soon so they don't bother. The system is to blame, not the background checks. Not even debatable!
mortablunt
Member
I bet the Police also know where the massage parlors and such things are, but cannot do anything because of the law, or because it's so low on the priority list because it isn't a nuisance. The Police tend to go after the obvious nuisance crimes like drunk driving and armed robbery. Stuff that occurs behind closed doors out of the public eye isn't such a priority because almost nobody who sees it objects to it.
wannabeagunsmith
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I just loved it how their honored guests on this show was Bloomberg himself, and an ATF agent.
Liberation
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- Dec 18, 2009
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- 31
They claim its private sales that lead to guns being used by criminals, which isn't far from the truth, most guns used in crimes are stolen.
And leftists want to start treating gun owners like sexual predators, listing gun owners by address on the internet.
Funny thing is the gun grabbers tried to use the stolen gun stats to advocate for gun locks, which they claim leads to less stolen guns, that's like saying a small fireproof safe is good to protect against theft.
And leftists want to start treating gun owners like sexual predators, listing gun owners by address on the internet.
Funny thing is the gun grabbers tried to use the stolen gun stats to advocate for gun locks, which they claim leads to less stolen guns, that's like saying a small fireproof safe is good to protect against theft.
beatledog7
Member
My .02.
Would I FTF sell a gun to someone who has no credentials to demonstrate that he's not a member of a (Constitutionally valid or not) prohibited group? No.
Would I buy from same? No. How would I know the gun's not stolen?
Even in a same state sale--and I do live in a state that allows FTF sales--I'd use an FFL. That's just me.
Would I FTF sell a gun to someone who has no credentials to demonstrate that he's not a member of a (Constitutionally valid or not) prohibited group? No.
Would I buy from same? No. How would I know the gun's not stolen?
Even in a same state sale--and I do live in a state that allows FTF sales--I'd use an FFL. That's just me.
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