Neck Die and Body Die Combo

[capreppy]

I have some decent bolt action once fired 223 brass. None of the necks are bent out of shape.

I want to size in a LnL AP, but have had some issues with the expander pulling on the neck as it came out. I am using a Giraud Trimmer and am getting inconsistent OAL due to variations caused by the expander pulling on the neck on the way out. Because the Giraud indexes on the shoulder, I need consistent shoulders.

I realize in advance this is slower, but will still be faster than on a SS. I want to neck size and then use the body die to take care of the FL (minus neck) sizing.

I have a thousand pieces of 308 brass that have a similar issue and I think I am going to check the shoulders using a similar technique. Don't have to worry about the necks since they have already been sized.

Thoughts, suggestions, & comments?

 

[rcmodel]

Are you using any kind of case neck lube??

That would seem to be the simplest way to stop it.

Roll a nylon bore brush on a case lube pad and clean the case necks with it before sizing.

That should stop all shoulder stretch during expanding.

Alternately, you could take the expander out of the die, FL size, & trim.
Then put the expander back in and expand & deprime after trimming.

rc

 

[capreppy]

I decap and clean via SS prior to sizing.

I do use Imperial Sizing Wax. I put a smidge on the mouth edge every 5th round or so and I've not put lub on a bore brush and done the necks.

 

[capreppy]

Do you need to use an expander? If I use a Lee Collett neck sizer, is it necessary?

 

[918v]

Nope.

I use a Lee collet neck die and a Redding body die. That's the best way to go.

 

[capreppy]

Nope.

I use a Lee collet neck die and a Redding body die. That's the best way to go.

Progressive or SS?

 

[capreppy]

When the funds become available I will eventually move to a bushing neck sizer and body die. I have a Lee Collett Neck Sizer in 223 and 308. Just need to pick up a body die in 223 and 308.

 

[Innovative]

capreppy ......

There's no need for a body die when your FL die height is set accurately. I recommend using a FL bushing die like the Redding S-Type die.

Until then, try cleaning your case necks with a bore brush using graphite powder with your expander ball. When I have to use an expander ball, I use a small jar of #8 shot with graphite powder added.

Check this out:

(Picture is from an article on my website)​

My wife has a collection of these very expensive little jars.

 

[USSR]

capreppy,

The Redding necksizing bushing die used in conjuction with the Redding body die are all I've ever used, as well as most of the guys I shot 1,000 yard F Class with. The benefit of being able to control the amount of neck tension with the bushing die, makes it a better choice than the Lee collet neck die. Just MHO.

Don

 

[capreppy]

capreppy,

The Redding necksizing bushing die used in conjuction with the Redding body die are all I've ever used, as well as most of the guys I shot 1,000 yard F Class with. The benefit of being able to control the amount of neck tension with the bushing die, makes it a better choice than the Lee collet neck die. Just MHO.

Don

I have a Redding 223 National Match Set (got it real cheap at $80 earlier in the year). To this, I definitely want to add a body die and bushing neck sizer (either a standard S-Type or a competition). I will definitely be going Redding when I do the same for the 308 (either a competition set or an S-Type set).

I already have a Lee Collett Neck Sizer in 223 and 308 so I'll use that till I can afford the Redding upgrades.

 

[capreppy]

capreppy ......

There's no need for a body die when your FL die height is set accurately. I recommend using a FL bushing die like the Redding S-Type die.

Until then, try cleaning your case necks with a bore brush using graphite powder with your expander ball. When I have to use an expander ball, I use a small jar of #8 shot with graphite powder added.

Check this out:

(Picture is from an article on my website)​

My wife has a collection of these very expensive little jars.

I have seen a few articles and threads on the use of graphite. Definitely keeping it open as an option, but investigating other options as well.

 

[rcmodel]

I decap and clean via SS prior to sizing.

Thats your problem right there!

The S/S tumbling is removing all traces of carbon and dirt from inside the necks that normally acts as lube of some sort.

You simply have to replace it with sizing lube, graphite, or mica, or your expander button will be squeaking and squawking like a violated screech owl.

And stretching shoulders in the process.

rc

 

[capreppy]

So another question. Do the Redding Carbide Buttons help? Would they help in my situation?

 

[cfullgraf]

I still use a little lubricant with Redding carbide expander buttons. Just not as much as with steel expander buttons.

 

[rcmodel]

Yes, they will help.

But with the problems you are having with squeeky clean cases?
They are no surefire substitution for case neck lube of some sort inside every case neck.

If you were resizing dirty cases, you wouldn't be having a problem!

Just try the nylon brush I mentioned with case lube, or Imperial Sizing Wax, or whatever rolled on it.

It doesn't take much, but it does take some.

rc

 

[capreppy]

I've got some nylon brushes and I'll try the Imperial to see if that helps.

 

[Innovative]

I recommend using an ordinary bore brush to clean the inside of case necks. If you don't have a S-Type bushing FL die, use graphite (because it's a dry lube).

If your die uses an expander button, the carbide is a huge improvement that requires no lube, just like pistol dies . . . . unless you want to.

 

[capreppy]

So procedural question: Neck Size then Body Die or vice versa?

 

[Innovative]

Why not full length resize "accurately" in one die and be done with it?

The case is completely supported, and it gets resized in one operation.

 

[hentown]

Why not full length resize "accurately" in one die and be done with it?

The case is completely supported, and it gets resized in one operation.
__________________

Exactly!! What's the point of using a f.l. and a collet die? I use both, but I damn sure don't use them during the same reloading cycle. I also don't lube case necks and wouldn't think of decapping and tumbling prior to sizing. I load thousands of rounds of .223s for ARs and bolt rifles. I use Lee dies and spray lube. (spray bottle, not aerosol) Never have any of the problems described by the OP.

This ain't rocket science, guys!

 

[capreppy]

The body die FL sizes, but does NOT touch the neck.

Before I used SS media, I didn't have this problem (now that I think about it). It is with the introduction of SS media that I am having this problem.

 

[fguffey]

It is assumed the sizer ball pulls the neck and stretches the case when the sizer button is pulled throught the neck, the first person that made up the story knew there was no reloader out here that could determine if his story was fact and or fiction, that is the same thing as discerning truth from nonsense. Then there is that story about the neck getting thicker and or thinner, same thing, the author is safe.

Then there is the necking up and or down, when the case is sized the neck is necked down, when the sizer plug is pulled through the neck the neck is sized up as in diameter, rumor has it the neck gets thicker and or thinner, the author of the rumor is safe AGAIN, there are no reloaders that tell one way or the other, except for one, I say the neck gets longer when sized down and shorter when necked up, I say the neck does not get thicker and or thinner, then there is measuring before and again after.

I have dies, lots of dies, my favorite die is the versatile full length sizer die, I size cases from .012” shorter than a minimum length case to a length of infinity, or a more practice .016” longer than a minimum length/full length sized case from the head of the case to its shoulder in thousandths (.001”), that is 26 different length, all with a full length sizer die, I have small base dies, neck sizer dies, BAR dies, forming dies, trim dies etc.. None of my dies pull the neck when the sizer plug is pulled through the neck when the ram is lowered, it is not fair, I believe reloaders that have dies that pull the neck out and stretch the case should get their money back, convincing the manufacturers?

Dies can be found at a cheap price, as handy as most reloaders claim to be it seems most could come up with a handy way to modify dies to size the body of the case without sizing the neck.

I have a 30/06 full length sizer die, without screwing up the die I can use the 30/06 full length sizer die to size the body of a 270 Winchester, I have a full length sizer die for the 270 Winchester case, instead if modifying the 270 Winchester die I can use it to size the body of the 6.5/06, then there is the 280 Remington body sizing with a 30/06 full length sizer die. then there is the 308W family of cases, 308 W full length sizer die used for the 7mm06 case?

F. Guffey

 

[918v]

Progressive or SS?

SS.

I hate progressives.

 

[Fatelvis]

Do the Redding Carbide Buttons help? Would they help in my situation?

Most definately they will. I was faced with the same problem when trimming with my Giraud. I cleaned the inside of the necks, dipped them in Redding's dry neck lube (small balls impregnated with their powdered lube), and sized with a Redding S-style neck sizer and carbide ball. Smooooth sailing, and consistant shoulders. I use the carbide balls in every caliber now!

 

[capreppy]

capreppy,

The Redding necksizing bushing die used in conjuction with the Redding body die are all I've ever used, as well as most of the guys I shot 1,000 yard F Class with. The benefit of being able to control the amount of neck tension with the bushing die, makes it a better choice than the Lee collet neck die. Just MHO.

Don

Did you body size before or after neck sizing when you needed to do so.