Neck sizing question

[bigedp51]

Your forgetting something fguffey, something really major, the Army ran tests firing the 7.62 NATO from the M1 with and "without" the chamber plug. And the M1 fired the 7.62 without any problems, I suppose now your going to say the military never fitted the M1 with a chamber plug as a means to use the M1 while transitioning to the M14 and the 7.62 NATO cartridge.

Looks like your going to need some REALLY big feeler gages there fguffey.

 

[fguffey]

You said:

“The 7.62 NATO cartridge below was fired in a 30-06 with a half inch of excess headspace when the 7.62 NATO is chambered. Now look at the center case in the photo below, the amount the primer is protruding is the head clearance or excess headspace. The primer can only back out of the primer pocket as far as the bolt face will allow it” One more time, that can not happen. You do not need to change the your for most that information is less than nice to know.

I do not have to measure or make another gage, both the 30/06 and 7.62 are cylinders with a taper, the taper on the cone gives both cases varying diameters, the further the 7.62 is driven into the 30/06 chamber the more difficult it becomes to drive the case further into the chamber. Dick Culver, while shooting a match at Perry, loaded a clip of 308 W/7.62 in an M1, accuracy did not suffer, others were surprised the M1 Would chamber the short tight fitting 7.62.

What I will say is you have a ton of gigs in pictures stating the 7.62 when fired in the 30/06 chamber has .50 thousands head space, not trying to hurt your feelings, not trying to insult you, in my opinion that is not possible, I will say I believe you make some of this stuff up, I have been involved in removing inserts, and, that is when the gages come out as when the smith chambered the 7.62/308W to 30/06, again, the 30/06 reamer will not clean up the 308 W chamber (now you know that). After removing the insert a good option is the 30/06 Ackley Improved chamber, my favorite reamer for the 308W/7.62 chamber is the 30 Gibbs, it does not miss anything when removing the old chamber.


now tell me? You thought the 30/06 chamber was modified with an insert THEN a 308 W/7.62 was chambered and fired??? and I just informed you there was not enough room in the 30/06 for the 7.62/308W.

F. Guffey

 

[bigedp51]

fguffey

Are you on drugs, in one sentence you say:

"Dick Culver, while shooting a match at Perry, loaded a clip of 308 W/7.62 in an M1, accuracy did not suffer, others were surprised the M1 Would chamber the short tight fitting 7.62."

And then you say:

"now tell me? You thought the 30/06 chamber was modified with an insert THEN a 308 W/7.62 was chambered and fired??? and I just informed you there was not enough room in the 30/06 for the 7.62/308W."

The photos I posted are the 7.62 NATO cartridges Dick Culver fired in his M1 Garand.

fguffey you do not know what your are talking about. And your talking in circles and contradicting yourself in your confusion.

 

[fguffey]

Ed, have you no pride?

No matter how slow I type, after hitting post, it all comes out at the speed when posted. I will assume you do not have a 308 case, 30/06 case, chamber for the 30/06 or the 308 W, and I will assume you do not have a micrometer.

To chamber a 308 W round in a 30/06 chamber the 308W/7.62NATO must be sized down with felt resistance to bolt closing, again, the 308 W is not a drop-in for the 30/06 chamber. Caution: If the 308 W case will drop into a 30/06 chamber the 30/06 chamber is at least .011 thousands larger in diameter at the 308W shoulder juncture than SAMMIE recommends.

And if it was not for your big ego you could have given Dick Culver credit for the pictures. Not my problem, not Dick Culver's problem, no one is to blame but you, and I blame those that have micrometers, chambers and cases (or those that claim they have the tools and skills)that are too lazy to step away from the computer to do the research. There are a few that work in the claims department and claim they are reloaderes, for them the Internet is a social event.

F. Guffey

 

[bigedp51]

fguffey

I did my research a long time ago, I have seen a .308 fired in a 30-06, its not research looking at a book, its experience holding the case in my hands.

 

[JDGray]

You go to the range, set-up, chamber a round and find it difficult to chamber, or it chambers with resistance to bolt closing, how is that possible? How insane is that? To me that is one very bad habit you need to correct! Chambering an 8mm57 in a 30/06 has all of the warning signs you just mentioned, the 8mm57 will chamber with resistance to bolt closing, the cause? Part of the neck requires partial sizing when chambered, same when fire forming 30/06 cases to 30/06 Ackley improved. Then there was this shooter that offered to zero a rifle for his friend, he purchased 308 W ammo for his friends 25/06, right up to the point he pulled the trigger the ammo and the rifle gave him a small indication something was not correct, the bolt closed with slight resistance. That was all the warning he got, and he blamed the ammo and the manufacturer of the rifle.

The OPs question was pretty cut and dry, why assume he mixed in some other caliber? He may only have one rifle for all we know. His question was answered pretty well by time you chimed in, and yes the op must be insane

 

[bigedp51]

On top of this the OP hasn't been back since the 11th posting and missed 47 chapters of fguffey's
"War and Piece" novel on headspace, Hatcher and other unrelated nonsensical ramblings.

 

[quartermaster]

gamestalker

A few years ago I had a problem with the 7 mag cases not chambering also. I thought that it was due to not toally FL sizing, but in doing so the problem still persisted. I had loaded these setting back the shoulders 002 3 or 4 times and then FL sized them. I happened to stumble across a website that Larry Willis has and purhased his collet die for belted magnums. His claim is that even with a FL sizing die, the case doesn't get sized immediately above the belt.

His die is a bit time comsuming to use as you have to FL size with a regular die and then smear imperial sizing wax on the case and use his collet die. I found that measuring just above the belt that some of my cases were .512 or larger. his die sizes mine to .508. I haven't had any problems since then. This one die works for almost all belted mags.

Check out his websight. I think you could just google his name or do a search for Innovative Technologies. Pretty clever idea

 

[fguffey]

Ed said:

“its experience holding the case in my hands” Now I am saying Ed. could look at it all day and not know what he is looking for, I am a big fan of measuring before and after. Ed. purchase a reloading manual, look at the specifications for the 308 W and the 30/08, compare the diameter of the shoulder of the 308 W with the diameter of the 30/06 shoulder

Ed has refused to step back from the computer, locate a 30/06 chamber, 308 W/7.62 NATO case, micrometers etc..

The diameter of the case at the shoulder juncture for the 308 W is .454, the diameter of the case for the 30/06 at the shoulder/case juncture is .441, that is .013 thousands difference. AGAIN, how can the 308 W have .050 thousands head space in the 30/06 chamber when the shoulder of the 308 W is being sized into a taper that gets smaller in diameter as the case is being formed/sized. The difference in distance from the bolt face to the shoulder of the 308 W and 30/06 chambers is .388. The 308 W head spaces in the 30/06 chamber at the shoulder/case juncture, the head space of the 308 W when fired in the 30/06 chamber is ZERO.

“I did my research a long time ago, I have seen a .308 fired in a 30-06, its not research looking at a book” Ed. nothing you have claimed gives me a clue you were even there.

F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

Gamemaster, I purchased a Winchester Model 70 chambered to 300 Win Mag, the chamber was the ugliest I had ever seen, too long, too large in diameter and gouged, we had words, I wanted a chamber that would fit my dies or dies that would fit my their chamber, long story, the rifle went back to Winchester.

F. Guffey

 

[bigedp51]

fguffey

Ed has refused to step back from the computer, locate a 30/06 chamber, 308 W/7.62 NATO case, micrometers etc..

Fully chambered and its called "experience" and "NOT" looking at drawings.





fguffey, just one more question, what size shoe do you wear. The .308/7.62 is nothing more than a 30-06 case shortened 1/2 of an inch and it "WILL" chamber in a 30-06 without problem.

 

[fguffey]

Back to Dick Culver and the 308 W/7.62 NATO rounds he fired in his M1.

There were those that knew the 30/06 reamer would not clean the 308 chamber up because of the larger diameter of the case, for that reason they were surprised the M1 bolt would size the case down enough to chamber the case when it closed.

And again, the body of the 30/06 chamber gets smaller, the only way to get the 308 W case further into the chamber is is work harder.

A suggestion, if you put as much time trying to think as you do being silly I just might take you serious, put this one with your tire gage.

F. Guffey

 

[bigedp51]

fguffey is side stepping, ducking, and changing the subject........again

The .308/7.62 NATO will chamber in a 30-06

You can also buy a chamber insert adapter for the 30-06 to fire the .308

"Also available in 308/30-06. Each kit includes one tube of Locktite™."

http://www.mcace.com/adapters.htm

"Several years ago, I ordered and installed some of these inserts in bolt action rifles. I converted an '03 Springfield [sporterized] from .30-06 to .308. I still have the Ruger Model 77 converted from .308 to 7.62 X 39. Both have taken deer."

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=121972

Now hows that for being silly.

 

[jcwit]

Does anyone really care which is correct?

If so lets hear from others.

Otherwise this is just another senseless argument as to who gets the last word.

 

[bigedp51]

jcwit

Does anyone really care which is correct?

If so lets hear from others.

Otherwise this is just another senseless argument as to who gets the last word.

Ain't gonna work dude. (sound familiar its your quote)

 

[jcwit]

Hope springs eternal!

Now hows that for being silly.

Back atcha! Your quote.

 

[bigedp51]

jcwit
Hope springs eternal!

From all your numerous unsolicited pissy and jurky PMs you've sent me and your uncalled for comments here I can only assume your underwear is too tight and that is causing your major malfunction.
(did you forget to take your meds again)

Or did you forget freedom of speech and just like being a pain in the backside. "Hope springs eternal" you will just fade into the sunset and find something else to do with your spare time.

There are 7 billion people in the world and your going to have to come to the realization your not the only person in the world who matters. If you do not like a posting don't read it, change the channel and watch Sesame Street and pretend your Big Bird, and not Oscar the grouch.

 

[JohnM]

This is all too much, maybe now a moderator will lock up this train wreck.

 

[jcwit]

This is all too much, maybe now a moderator will lock up this train wreck.

Agreed!

 

[fguffey]

jcwit, I like that, “your quote”

Ed, your quote,

”The 7.62 NATO cartridge below was fired in a 30-06 with a half inch of excess headspace when the 7.62 NATO is chambered. Now look at the center case in the photo below, the amount the primer is protruding is the head clearance or excess headspace. The primer can only back out of the primer pocket as far as the bolt face will allow it”

you did it again,

Your quote:


”fguffey, just one more question, what size shoe do you wear. The .308/7.62 is nothing more than a 30-06 case shortened 1/2 of an inch and it "WILL" chamber in a 30-06 without problem” and I said Dick Culver shot 308 W in his M1 and I said there were those that were surprised the M1 Bolt chambered and sized the case when closing.

I do not know how to get your attention, I do not know if you can focus, you claim in your monument to those that can not follow instructions the 308 W when chambered in a 30/06 chamber has .050 thousands head space. How? I can chamber a 308 W in a 30/06 without a bolt, then with a drift and hammer drive the case into the chamber .050 thousands, that would not be necessary if there was .050 thousands head space.

Ed, I hear you, I can not help you, I am not qualified, all I can do is show sympathy, I am not an enable, in the beginning I thought you believed in what you presented was correct, now I am convinced you do not care.

F. Guffey

 

[bigedp51]

jcwit

When someone disagrees with you in an open forum jcwit and you send hate filled PM messages in response, there isn't any doubt in my mind you have a problem.

If fguffey wants to dance around his comments and cover up his incorrect statements I can't stop him. What I can do is bring attention to the garbage he posts and correct his misinformation.

Below was fguffey reply to the OP neck sizing question, and he did not give any information on how to correct the problem by bumping the shoulder back, all fguffey did was go into a rant and drift off topic. How do you help anyone by telling them they are insane for have a tight fitting neck sized cartridge.

fguffey
You go to the range, set-up, chamber a round and find it difficult to chamber, or it chambers with resistance to bolt closing, how is that possible? How insane is that? To me that is one very bad habit you need to correct!

If this exchange bothers anyone then do not read it and move on to another posting.

 

[TexasRifleman]

This is all too much, maybe now a moderator will lock up this train wreck.

Good idea.