neck sizing using FL dies

[NTP19]

A couple questions about using FL dies to just neck size. I have RCBS dies and followed directions by seating the die to the case holder then locking down the nut. (I even backed it off 1/8 turn). I did not lube the case sides only insides of the neck on every 5th case or so.

Am I supposed to run the ram in the press all the way up still? I would get almost to the end of the throw and feel a "click" I think it is the expander ball engaging the neck. I could still pull the handle down a little further but if I don't and return the ram the end of the case seems sized. Am I resizing enough of the neck or do I need to go further? Before doing this I used a bullet to test the fit and on many of them before resizing the bullet would easily slip all the way into the case. After it would no by hand. If this makes no sense please let me know and ill try to explain a bit better.

Second question, if a few cases are shorter than the rest should I do the full length resize to bring their length up to match the rest of the batch?

 

[MtnCreek]

I did not lube the case sides only insides of the neck on every 5th case or so.

Don't do that anymore!

 

[NTP19]

I was under the impression that if only neck sizing, lube was not needed on the case sides

 

[NeuseRvrRat]

what you're really doing when you back out a FL sizing die is "partial full length sizing".

if you only backed off the shell holder by 1/8th of a turn, then you're still sizing quite a bit. you need to back the die off some more. you also need to always use a full stroke on the ram. if you don't, you'll never be consistent in how much you're sizing. i've found that some sort of case gauge is helpful for partial full length sizing. i use a set of comparator inserts that work with my hornady bullet comparator set. they measure off the datum on the shoulder of the case. a lot of folks will measure off the datum of a fired case and then adjust the FL sizing die until it bumps the shoulder back however much they want. it's generally a few thousandths, up to probably .005". you just have to play around with it.

i've found that it's much easier to just neck size with a Lee collet neck sizing die. absolutely no need for lube and setup couldn't be faster or easier. it's not all that expensive, either.

 

[Jasper1573]

If the FL die goes down over the brass case, it is making contact with the brass and there is a high potential for getting a case stuck inside the FL die. I use my FL dies to size my brass about every 5th firing. When not FL sizing, I use a Lee collet neck sizing die. Works great and requires no lube because it really only makes contact with the neck. I believe you can buy the Lee collet die for around $15-20, and worth the $$ as you can rapidly size hundreds of pieces of brass and put less wear and tear on your brass. Folks will have varied opinions on the collet neck sizing die from Lee, but I like it. There are other options, but they are more expensive.

 

[edfardos]

for 30'06, I back out the rcbs sizer die the width of a US nickle. The shoulder is untouched, but the die does make contact with the exterior of the brass -- enough to jam/gall without lube.. Watch for sizing marks on the neck, they need not be all the way to the shoulder, but they should be down as far as a seated bullet.

edfardos

 

[NTP19]

Thanks for the responses, I'll run the cases again

 

[Walkalong]

If you want to neck size, get a neck sizing die. I would get a bushing style die. You cannot "neck size" properly with a FL sizer.

 

[gamestalker]

A FL die is going to still make contact with the body of the brass inspite of backing it out, and off, of the shoulder.
And as also stated, don't go partial strokes on the press ram. Always adjust the die, not the amount you run the press ram up, that's just way too inconsistent, and it defeats the leverage design of the press which could cause you some problems with brass not being square to the head. If the ram is not in it's fully bottomed out position some cantering will likely occure.

Also, if you are using a FL, die you must completely lube the brass. Lube the inside and outside of the neck, and the body, but don't get lube on the shoulder or you'll end up with lube dents. In my opinion, taking the time to do a proper job lubing the brass helps to reduce galling and other deformation issues to the brass, but more importantly, it prevents stuck cases. I personally pride myself at how clean my brass comes otu of the die. Whe you seat a bullet, you want it to go in with as little scuffing as possible. An example of this was when I recently pulled some bullets from a box I wanted to re-work the load data on. When I pulled them they were not scuffed or scratched during the seating process because the inside of my necks were properly lubed and cleand, and my dies were clean.

Now a word about neck sizing. If what you want is neck sized brass, buy a neck sizing die. The neck collet die is no doubt the best way to go, but a neck sizing die will certainly accomplish your goal. An RCBS neck die can be had for around $15-$20, but you'll still need your FL die to push the shoulders back every so many loadings, or when they start getting to tight to chamber.

And last, but certainly not least is trimming your brass. I've left this for last because I personally feel trimming is all too often considered as an unnecessary, and time consuming step. Fisrt let me address your statement about using the resizing die to control brass length. Brass that is longer than SAAMI maximum must be trimmed to prevent unpredictably high pressure spikes caused by the bullet getting pinched as the mouth tries to expand. Trimming is the only acceptable means of keeping brass to within SAAMI spec.. This is even more so true when referring to a bottle neck cartridge where normal operating pressures are above 50,000+ psi. If the pinching doesn't produce a serious short term noticable problem from the pressure spikes, then eventually other serious and rather short term issues will develope, in this respect I'm referring to throat errosion. Always check brass for needed trimming only after it has been resized, as the resizing process can have an effect on brass length, especially for the first couple loadings. Once the brass has done about all the fire forming it can do, it won't usually change much in this way. I still check mine and keep them uniform in length, but most of the time they will stay pretty close to minimum after the first 3 or 4 reloading sessions. Once trimmed to the proper length, it is also necessary to ream and chamfer the mouths.

 

[fguffey]

NTP19, careful, there is a chance you could, at the end of this secession, have a bench full of tools YOU DO NOT NEED.

Adjusting the full length sizer die to neck size, (always adjust the die to the shell holder first or when neck sizing, adjust the die off the shell holder), the neck of the 30/06 is .385 long, if you want to adjust the die off the shell holder to neck size .300 thousands of the neck adjust the die off the shell holder .085 thousands.

In my reloading vocabulary of terms I have transfer, standard and verify, to accomplish all three I have another term, feeler gage, the companion tool to the press tool, the feeler gage, and I have drawers full of standards and drawers full of micrometers for verifying. When adjusting the die off the shell holder I can use the dial indicator, first adjust the die to the shell holder with the ram up, then measure the height of the die above the press, then .000 (zero) THEN screw the die out .085 thousands, then verify with the adjustment with the dial caliper.

All of my full length sizer dies are ‘versatile’ dies, my Full Length sizer dies neck size only, neck size with partial body sizing, they size cases for long chamber (from the bolt face to the shoulder of the chamber), they custom size cases to custom fit custom chambers, the size cases for short chambers (short chamber is my vocabulary word for what others perceive as being tight, as in ‘I have a tight chamber and that is the reason I have to have another die.

But for my vocabulary of terms to work I have to understand the incline plain and the aPex.

I have neck sizer dies, small base dies, forming dies, dies that have little things that slide etc., my full length ‘versatile’ sizer die gets all the work and when I find there is something they will not do, I use one of the other dies.

Avoid the fire to form, then neck size the case after each firing up to 5 times THEN? full length size and start over, that can not be done, think about it, the case has been fired at least 5 times, how can a reloader start over by full length sizing a case that has been fired 5 times, then there is jump back, snap back or spring back.

Again, I use the feeler gage to adjust the die off the shell holder, the first time, the second time, the third time etc.. this method/technique eliminates the need to start over, again, it helps to understand the incline plain...and the aPex.

F. Guffey

 

[NTP19]

Thanks for all the information. This is why these forums are a great resource!