Neck splits after 4 reloads

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O/P, you likely have a bad lot of cases that didn't get properly annealed at the factory. You can anneal the rest of the cases or get some new brass.
 
I would suggest getting a new batch of brass and starting over, so you know what you have got. As far as lubing the necks, I guess running the expander through a dry neck may cause some work hardening, although I have never thought of that, but it will definitely help you make more concentric ammo.

A Q tip works good for me. QM
 
Just a wild idea here, so don't take it too seriously. Is there any chance at all that the O.P.'s chamber is a bit large at the case neck? That would lead to a lot of over-working the brass, I think. A chamber cast would show this up (and simply measuring the diameter of a freshly-fired case would give a preliminary hint). Granted, the rifle is newer and not likely to be not to SAAMI specifications, but such things can happen.

Lost Sheep
 
Remove the expander from the fl die. Size a case and measure the outside neck diameter. Now measure a loaded rounds neck diameter. What is the difference? More than .003" and your over working the neck. Bushing dies dont do this.
 
It is already on order from Midwest. I saw it on youtube, looked at the ratings and ordered on the spot. Thanks.
 
I am also going to watch annealing vids so I can try that too, if I don't burn my workbench down. Thanks everyone.
 
The Redding Type S FL sizing bushing die lets you control how much you size the neck using bushings of different sizes. You have the choice of using an expander or not. I have 18 and 16 loadings on 2 different lots of brass with no neck splits.
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Thanks 243 but I am already at the limits of my understanding of this hobby. I think the last thing I need is another adjustment to think about until I become more knowledgeable. I am going to try annealing though.
 
Quote from post #12: "Or maybe he washed the cases and then dried them in an oven which would make the brass really hard."

sage5907--I would like an explanation detailing just how this would come to pass, please.

OP--There have been several recent threads here on THR about annealing. A quick perusal of the threads from the last week+ or so should give you lots of ideas.
 
rcmodel said:
Well, that too I suppose.
But unlike pierced primers burning the same place every time.

The chance of a split case neck happening in the same place in the chamber twice is about 1 in 360 degrees.

I would chalk it up to bad brass and call it explained.

I have had new Federal 9mm brass come apart at the seams the first time it was reloaded.

View attachment 210180


rc
Click to expand...

Now you've gone and done it!. It's all over the interweb now that Federal 9mm brass is no good, so never use it and throw it all away.:D
 
homatok, the reason for annealing is that the case neck brass has become hard from shooting. The case is heated and the brass is compressed by the burning powder and then cools slowly to ambient temperature. Each time this happens the neck gets harder and you can feel this hardness when you seat bullets. Target shooters anneal often to keep the neck soft so the bullets come out easy and they also use short neck cartridges which keeps the neck tension down. During annealing the case neck is heated with a torch and then the case is cooled instantly when it is turned over in cool water. This softens the brass. The exact opposite could occur when you heat a brass case in an oven and then let it cool slowly to room temperature.
 
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I did some reading on work hardened brass and found out that it is the compression that causes the brass to get harder. That leads me to believe that if you fire a 25-06 cartridge at 53,000 cup or higher it will get harder quicker. That also says that extra hot loads can cause a brass case to get harder quicker. Elkins45 says his 257 Weatherby Magnum brass won't make it to 4 firings unless he anneals the brass, and that cartridge can reach 55,000 cup. Again, brass life is directly related to the chamber pressure.
 
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Haven't heard anyone claim that higher pressure cartridges with heavier loads
makes brass last longer or makes case necks softer.:) OYE
 
I destroyed a very nice custom .220 Swift by doing improper
annealing. I did the cherry red bit and knocked them into
water. It didn't work for me. All I'm saying is know what you
are doing I didn't and it cost me.

Zeke
 
That also says that extra hot loads can cause a brass case to get harder quicker
Click to expand...
Believe what you want.

But, case neck work hardening / splitting is caused by expansion in the chamber.
And compression in the sizing die.
Time after time.

A case neck can only expand so far inside the chamber.

And it will do it exactly the same amount at 45,000, or 65,000 PSI.

A loose chamber and a tight sizing die will result in neck cracks faster then prolonged firing in a tight chamber and a minimum spec sizing die & expander working it harden every re-loading cycle.

Work hardened brass comes from repeated expansion and sizing / expanding.

(Just like bending a wire back and forth until it breaks.)

Not from pressure.

Cases fail from excess pressure first with case head expansion, and loose primer pockets.
Not from split necks.

rc
 
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I agree about 99% with you, rc. But in addition to the bending(expansion) of brass to become work hardened, brass also becomes work hardened from pressure and age.
Heating brass softens it. It doesn't matter how it is cooled. Fast or slow or water cooling does change the softening effect.
You can not or do not quench brass as steels would be by properly cooling.BestAll
 
I'm not trying to argue.

I'm just saying the OP's split neck problem after 4 firing cycles was not caused by high pressure loads.
Or, his primers would be falling out faster then he can seat them too!!

rc
 
To me the hotter the load the more the brass flows and changes during the firing process. That's why Roy Weatherby started using the radius shoulder on his magnum cases. I don't think it is the working of the brass during the resizing operation that is causing the case wall to get thinner, I think it is the flow of brass toward the front of the chamber. Weatherby was trying to slow down that flow of brass with his radius shoulder. I have seen heavy charges burn holes through the brass both in the chamber area and in the neck. It's true that resizing the case squeezes the sides in and makes the case grow in length, I'm just saying this happens faster when the loads are hotter. The case necks are more likely to split during a more violent expansion. Cases fired in a 6.5 X47 rifle at 2600 feet per second can be resized many more times without problems that a 25-06 fired at a velocity of 3300 fps.
 
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I didn't read every post, but read over the majority of them. Here is my suggestion, and this is not to attack anyone else or the OP posting. Trash the problem brass, don't worry about annealing case necks. You posted your new to reloading I don't think annealing is something that's worth the time to most seasoned reloaders much less a new reloader. If your bound and determined to anneal your cases I would research it using the temperature markers, and start with some scrap cases to practice on.

FC (Federal) brass is not great brass, if not for split neck you will probably loose it due to loose primer pockets. I have read some people have had good luck with it, however it has to be a luck of the draw combined with a varying quality especially with brass saved from factory loaded rounds. The problems found when reloading doesn't have any effect on the ability for the brass to perform in factory loads, and Federal makes some of the best factory ammo in my opinion.
 
I've reloaded my present batch of brass around a dozen times with no signs of trouble, but I'm using an undersized neck which considerably reduces work-hardening. Before the undersized neck I had to do a lot of annealing and heat-treating.
 
Words of wisdom:
Believe what you want.

But, case neck work hardening / splitting is caused by expansion in the chamber.
And compression in the sizing die.
Time after time.

A case neck can only expand so far inside the chamber.

And it will do it exactly the same amount at 45,000, or 65,000 PSI.

A loose chamber and a tight sizing die will result in neck cracks faster then prolonged firing in a tight chamber and a minimum spec sizing die & expander working it harden every re-loading cycle.

Work hardened brass comes from repeated expansion and sizing / expanding.

(Just like bending a wire back and forth until it breaks.)

Not from pressure.

Cases fail from excess pressure first with case head expansion, and loose primer pockets.
Not from split necks.
Click to expand...



Trash the problem brass, don't worry about annealing case necks.......I don't think annealing is something that's worth the time to most seasoned reloaders much less a new reloader.
Click to expand...
Respectfully, I disagree. I see that as somewhat of a waste, it could be otherwise functional brass. Annealing can and in most cases will extend the safe life of brass if done properly.
FC (Federal) brass is not great brass, if not for split neck you will probably loose it due to loose primer pockets.........and Federal makes some of the best factory ammo in my opinion.
Click to expand...
I agree.
 
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