Need 223 Rem Loading Advice

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Chuck Perry

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I just purchased a 223 semi auto. I have been contemplating what I need for reloading. I currently load only straight wall cases. Is a case trimmer essential for the 223? I will be using once-fired brass, and most likely Lee dies with the factory crimp die. I am not looking for tack driving accuracy. I am only expecting 2 MOA from this rifle (AR180B). Any other tips for my foray into bottle neck rifle loading?
 
Chuck
I shoot these loads in my AR15 and get Sub MOA with them. 24 Grain of Hodgdon H335 with Once fired Lake City Brass and CCI Primer and Winchester 55 Grain FMJBT. You will need a case trimmer. Enjoy.

If you want to use V-Max Bullets then go to 24.1 grain of H335 and use a 55 Grain Vmax and same case and primer as above.

I do not crimp my rounds at all though.
 
Lake City brass is pretty popular. Another good thing about it is the primers are not staked in.

So far I have used Varget and H335 in .223. I stick with the Varget since I use it in my 22-250 as well.
 
One other thing to think about is using Mil-Surplus Powder from Bartlett Reloading. You can get 8 Lbs for $72 + $20 Hazmat fee (You can ship up to 6 8LBS jugs on one $20 hazmat fee). You cannot get 8 lbs of H335 for $92 but you use the same load data as H335 with the WC844. I use it and love it. They also have OK prices on Brass.

Bartlett Reloading
 
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So Lake City brass does not use a crimped primer? Good to know. Guess I don't have to pay the extra processing fee!
Thanks for the link for Bartlett's. I have been watching his site, and GI brass, for awhile. I'll have to talk my buddy into splitting an order to offset the shipping costs :)
 
I have Lake City brass coming out of my ears. Whenever I find staked brass at the range I usually throw it to the side. No need to spend time with that stuff.

I trim after the first firing or whenever I prepare to load spent brass that I have acquired. After that, maybe after the 3rd time thru.
 
I'm confused. I thought all "Military" brass had a crimped in primer? (Isn't XM193 the exact same stuff as M193?)

(not complaining if it isn't as it'll save me from having to buy a swage tool)

I too am trying to get a handle on what I'll need to reload .223 and I've been accumulating brass for awhile now. What I'm trying to get a handle on is what the procedure would be for reloading on a progressive. If I understand correctly I need to do the following: (reloading for an AR)

1. Clean cases
2. Lube cases
3. Full length resize
4. Trim to length
5. Tumble brass to remove lube
6. Reload using only 3 of the four stations on my 550. (4th could be used for powder check??)

The thing that has me confused is when I'm supposed to reprime? (I'm guessing during the full length resize?)

So would you set up the 4 stations on the dillon as the following:

a. Expand/Powder Drop
b. powder check
c. bullet seat
d. Crimp (?? or do you not have a crimp and it's held by bullet tension?)

The other question I had is where you can buy bulk 55fmj bullets for a reasonable price. All I'll be looking to do is roughly reproduce XM193 for target practice/plinking.

Any and all info is greatly appreciated!!

Have a good one,
Dave
 
I'd be wary of the once-fired 'processed' military brass, of LC or WCC descent... I've found widely varying quality btwn different batches from RVO and Scharch... some of what they consider '100% processed, ready to load' is far from it in my opinion. And as far as the primer crimp being removed... well, lets just say I didn't end up buying a Dillon Super 600 primer crimp swager for the hell of it. At this point I'm so disgusted w/ the overall hassle, and short case life (3-4 firings before split necks) that if you're around Wenatchee, WA, I'll *give* you a couple thousand cases. Time to get some once-fired Winchester brass from brassmanbrass.com that's been fired thru police AR's and Mini-14's for training exercises, not thru a friggin' SAW w/ an oversized chamber.

YMMV,

Monte
 
+1 milanuk

i've got 5000 LC cases that have never been fired (inert primers) and a dillon swager, and case prep so annoying, i gave up years ago and bought remington cases.

i won't GIVE away the LC cases, but i'd certainly part with a couple thousand for a modest sum. (shipping is out of the question though) (i'm in mid/east TN)
 
i keep my loads on the lighter end of the spectrum and only trim every 4 loadings or so. as for cheap bullets, midway has the winchester bulk 55gr fmj that have worked well for me very reasonably, there are a lot of pulldown fmj with steel core floating around in the 26 bucks per 1000 range, probably figure 35 ish after shipping, i've never fired them so i cannot attribute to their quality.

i think midway gets about 38 per thou before shipping, but they are very good.
 
Best brass I have ever encountered for .223 was a bucket of once fired (AR 15's) made by Denel, a mfr from South Africa.

Great brass, not crimped, uniform and consistent in every respect. I don't know where to buy the ammo. One of the guys shooting it said they bought it at a gunshow as surplus. 2700 rounds for $400 in a big brown tub.

That's pretty cheap ammo, and for good brass to reload, you might try and find some at the next gunshow.

Just a thought

BigSlick
 
What I have found is the LC is not staked but it does have a slight crimp all the way around the primer. Some are less than others and some need swagged and some don't. Depends on the lot I guess. To see what I am referring too look at say a Winchester factory load and then a LC case. You will see a slight crimped circle all the way around the primer pocket on the LC.
 
dmftoy1,

You have the order just about right. After you trim to length, you might deburr the case mouth and clean the primer pocket.

I do not tumble to remove lube, I wash in hot water and dish soap, then dry either in low (200 f) oven or sit base-up in 50-rd. ammo boxes.

When cases are dry, I prime with an RCBS hand-priming tool, then powder charge and bullet seat. A cheap Lee single-stage press (that I leave the seating die in) serves for this.

You do not really need to neck expand, but some people do - just a bit (like 0.003-0.004") - check to see if the neck-expanded case will chamber easily; if so, you don't need to remove the slight bell.

Many people (including me) do not crimp. This is for an AR for the Highpower match, which includes both single loading and feeding from the magazine.

Most (or all?) of the LC brass I've seen, and bought from RVOW, was indeed primer-crimped. I just cut out the crimp when I deburr the mouth - don't re-crimp and it only needs to be done the first time you load that case.

I hope this helps.

Regards,
Andrew
 
dmftoy1,

You have the order just about right. After you trim to length, you might deburr the case mouth and clean the primer pocket.

I do not tumble to remove lube, I wash in hot water and dish soap, then dry either in low (200 f) oven or sit base-up in 50-rd. ammo boxes.

When cases are dry, I prime with an RCBS hand-priming tool, then powder charge and bullet seat. A cheap Lee single-stage press (that I leave the seating die in) serves for this.

You do not really need to neck expand, but some people do - just a bit (like 0.003-0.004") - check to see if the neck-expanded case will chamber easily; if so, you don't need to remove the slight bell.

Many people (including me) do not crimp. This is for an AR for the Highpower match, which includes both single loading and feeding from the magazine.

Most (or all?) of the LC brass I've seen, and bought from RVOW, was indeed primer-crimped. I just cut out the crimp when I deburr the mouth - don't re-crimp and it only needs to be done the first time you load that case.

I hope this helps.

Regards,
Andrew
Click to expand...

Thanks! That helps ALOT. I've loaded tons of straight walled pistol cases but never a bottleneck.

Have a good one,
Dave
 
Be sure that you carefully seat the primers, the AR has a free floating firing pin and when chambered the pin strikes the primer. Chamber a round, remove, and look at the dimple on the primer. If primer is not fully seated it can slam fire. Measure OAL carefully, if the round is not fully seated and bolt not locked it can fire out of battery. Lots of good loads out there, I've used IMR 4198 but use 4895 now cause I use it in everything else. Call it paranoia on my part, but when I shoot my reloads I shoot slow timed shots making sure every round feels right as it clears barrel. I have had nothing but bad luck reloading Federal brass, finally trashed it. The primer pocket stretches and the primers blow out and fall into the trigger assembly. Really screws it up. Taliv, I'd be interested in that brass.

Rgg
 
I think I have a handle on the new equipment I'll need. I am ordering a set of Lee Pacesetter dies and a Hornady Cam Lock trimmer with the appropriate shell holder and power adaptor. I see mention of case neck brushes. What is the purpose of these? Doesn't tumbling remove enough crud already? There seems to be a big debate over once fired brass. I was going to go with some commercial once fired, but had a change of heart. After reading all the comments here and elsewhere, I think I'll be much happier buying some new Winchester bulk brass. Same for bullets; at $35/1,000, it's much easier to buy new Winchester bulk bullets than to take a gamble on surplus. One more question: I tumble my pistol ammo after it is loaded. Is it safe to tumble loaded rifle ammo? I am hesitant to do so because of the spire point. I don't think the tumble will make enough force for a bullet to set off a cartridge, but... Would like to hear from someone with experience. Could always buy a long extension cord and set the tumbler up in the middle of a field too, I suppose :evil:
 
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Use a neck case brush to lube the inside of the neck case to make seating the bullet easier (after powder is in case). Be sure to really lube the cases well before sizing. They will get stuck in the sizing die and are really hard to get out. I have never had a pistol case stuck, rifle cases too many to mention. I finally just got an extra sizing die for the rifle calibers I load most when I get one stuck I just put it up till I have the temperment to mess with it.

rk
 
You probably will anyway, so do it NOW.

Buy a carbide die, that is. I put my carbide Dillon die in the old Rockchucker and use it to size/deprime cases, then I run them through the 550 with the regular die set in place. Less lube needed, less pressure required and less case stretch.

Yes, they're expensive - naturally, I dawdled until AFTER the price increase to buy mine. Still makes life easier, especially if you plan to reload them often. ;)
 
Same for bullets; at $35/1,000, it's much easier to buy new Winchester bulk bullets than to take a gamble on surplus.
Click to expand...


chuck, for paper-punching, i'd almost agree. my humble and quite possibly wrong opinion is that for SHTF bullets, i'd much rather have M193 pull-downs than new Winchester bullets. i scanned your posts in this thread and didn't see where you mentioned anything other than you weren't looking for sub-MOA ammo.

I have quite a lot of both bullets and as i've mentioned in previous threads, a quick glance at the bottom of them and you can see a big difference in jacket thickness. my opinion is that this would translate into a big difference in terminal ballistics. i.e. win might punch a small hole right through something, where M193 will fragment, causing a substantially different wound.

again, just my opinion from looking at the bottom of the bullet. and I have heard a lot of people say there's a lot more to M193 than just any 55g FMJ.
 
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