Need 357 advise

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broham

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I have loaded about 500 rounds so far with 158gr sjhp's. I am using Zero brand bullets. My lee trimmer cuts the brass to 1.280. Speer # 12 manuel shows a overall cart lenght of 1.570, Sierra shows 1.585. Speer shows a max of 12.5 of 2400 and Sierra shows a max of 15. Speer has a trim to lenght at 1.280 Sierra shows trim to 1.285. When I seat to the top of the crimp groove I am at 1.568 overall. So far I have loaded up to 13.5 of 2400 at 1.568(give or take a .001) with what apears to be no problem. If I need to go longer on col is it ok to crimp towards the bottom of the groove? Can I use Sierra's data because my trimmer cuts the brass .005 shorter than their data states? I am emberaced to ask what to look for as far as over presure. I was mainly concerned with seating at 1.568 and maybe being compresed with closer to 15 gr of 2400. :confused:
 
You're worried about nothing, mate. If the cartridge fits your gun and you have started with -- wait for it -- starting loads, you are safe.

The primary pressure sign in revolvers is sticky extraction. If it takes more than a light push on the ejector rod you need to back off your load.

Have fun!
 
Your load sounds good. COL is OK. As long as you give it a firm crimp anywhere in the groove you should be fine.

However-

What gun?

Do you have a chrono? If not you really should get one before you go any higher with that powder charge.

Are those bullets cast lead or jacketed?
 
you are fine. not to undercut ben cuz he knows his stuff but....you dont even have to crimp in the groove if you dont want (but it DOES help). roll or taper crimp them and you are fine so long as bullets arent backing out.
 
The gun is a gp100. I just remember when I made 10 rounds at 14gr and it seemed to fill the case quite a bit. From looking at the bullet it looked as if it would touch or maybe compress the powder. I was woried that if the bullet is seated at the top of the groove, which is what I have been told to do, and the case is to full I might run into over psi. I was under the impresion to just seat bullets to the crimp groove and don't look back. I have lot's of manuels and copied down loads of loads and the differance in max charges of some powders are up to 4 gr. Thank you guys very much for the info, I was starting to get woried.
 
Just realized that in your first post you said they were jacketed.:scrutiny: My bad.

Anyway, with 2400 a firm crimp is reccomended, unless you want sooty cases and erratic velocities.

You should find that right at that 14 grain charge your GP should be very happy. If yours is a 6" barrel, I would imagine that you'll see velocities running close to 1350.

Your GP should handle a 15 grain charge fine. My personal favorite is 14.8 grains under a 158 grain jacketed slug.

Just be aware that any charge over 14 grains is over most current maximums, so approach with caution.

As far as COL and brass length are concerned, you're worrying too much. The key is pick a length, trim them ALL to that length, seat the slug to the groove, apply crimp. What trimming them to the same length gets you is uniform crimp. That gives you consistant powder ignition and bullet pull, leading to better accuracy and more consistant velocities.
 
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Huh, my Lee manual* has 158gr jacketed at starting grains of 14.1, max of 15.2, and min OAL of (oddly enough) 1.58. Granted, it's listed as Herc 2400, but everything I've been able to dig up says it's the same stuff.
Just throwing that out there.



*"Modern Reloading, Second Edition", 2007 printing, page 556
 
You are making this overly complicated.

First of all, just trim them if you must.
But I have never trimmed a handgun case in over 45 years of reloading.

Second, just seat & crimp them to the cannelure.

Revolver bullets take care of their selves when it comes to OAL, due to the cannelure placement on the bullet. It is in the right place for a proper OAL already.

BTW: 13.5 grains of 2400 is just a baby load.
Nothing at all to worry about until you get up to about 14.5 grains or so!

rcmodel
 
As rcmodel posted- trimming with handgun brass is needed rarely.

I should have given more detail:

Pick a length(usually on the short side of spec) Trim all new brass, any found brass, once fired brass you pick up, etc., to that length once, before you even load it. You should never have to trim it again. Until the neck splits and then you can cut it down to 38 special length and start all over if you're really pinching pennies.

Currently I feed over a dozen 357s, and after the initial trim insuring I have uniform dimensions and crimp, I've never had to trim one that grew/stretched either. They just go until the mouth splits.
 
I just don't see how you two guys (Ben and rc) can get away with that.:D I use 2400 and W-296 at moderate loads with 140 grain SJHP and to maintain a proper and uniform crimp I have to trim about every second or third loading. I may be a bit anal though as I want them to be with +/- .002" of each other. 50% of my .357 magnum cases, after the second or third loading, will be over maximum length.:banghead:

I trim both .38 Special and .357 magnum cases as needed to maintain proper and uniform crimp...:)
 
I find that 357 mag's need trimming. Mainly to get a good crimp that is the same on each round. And because they get to long. There is a chamber in the cylinder the case needs to fit. My "lite" load of 13.0gr of Alliant 2400 w/158gr cast LSWC even make my cases grow. For the one 6" S&W i have a max of 14.0gr 2400 that i chronographed at 1257fps average. But that is on the hot side for some other 357's. My brass does last a long time, well over 10 or more loadings using 13.0gr. I do use a magnum primer.
 
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I've rarely if ever seen a need to trim revolver brass. I don't even measure it anymore. Again, as long as the rounds fit your gun you're fine.
 
The last batch of .357s I chronographed had an SD of 16. This was either the 12th or 13th loading; I misremember which. I definitely have no idea how long the cases were or how closely they matched, as I didn't even measure them when new, let alone at any time afterward.

Which is the long way of presenting my opinion as to absolute statements printed on the internet. :neener:
 
If you are using magnum primers then 13.0grs is close to maximum, I've had pierced primers at 13.5. 2400 light easy and mag primers push the pressures up. Using standard primers my load is 14.0grs with 158gr bullets from Winchester or Remington and this matches factory balistics from a 4" barrel (1,247 fps) from my 4" S&W M66. With standard primers I see typical primers without any signs of over pressure.
 
broham

Reloading data lists these primers to be used with the 38 special and 38special +P . Rem 1 1/2, Fed 100, WSP, Speer list the CCI 550Mag primer for Alliant 2400. Hodgdon will mail to you free powder guides to use with WIN, IMR, Hodgdon powders. Alliant has a free powder guide also. Note: When you look at the Alliant powder guide(2005 i have) under 38special and 38special +P . you will notice that there is only one load using 2400. This is because 2400 is a poor choice for a 38 special (i am guessing here) But if you must use 2400 in 38 special, always use a magnum primer the same that is recomended for the 357 magnum. As far a pressure goes,start low, work up. broham, what has been said about trimming is all true. But there is a safty factor involved. The chamber of firearms will accept a case that is over maximum lenght. This is the safety margin built into each and every gun. In a revolver an over maximum case will show up as a round that sticks up and keeps the cylinder from turning correctly. Or if you happent to set your roll criimp die up using the shortest case, the longer case will maybe get a buldge at the case mouth and not chamber at all. No harm here. Now a rifle also has the built in safety when if the brass is over maximum trim lenght. But if you exceed the maximum trim lenght in a bolt action rifle, going past the built in safety of the chamber, bad things can happen, not like a revolver. The bullet in a bolt action rifle can get "crimped" into the chamber when a cases MAXIMUM trim length has been exceeded. This will freeze the bolt, break the stock and give you a bad day in general. So, stay out of the "safe area" trim your brass when it reads at the maximum length, "be safe" I personally feel its onsafe to teach new handloads things that are not normal data published in reloading manuals. Using a taper crimp die on pistol cases is a good idea if you have range brass that grows at different lenghts.
 
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Nothing like jumping right into a maximum load. The Alliant web site shows:

Recipe(s) for...
.357 Mag.(start over with Pistols and Revolvers)
• 158 JSP


Recipes
Minimum OAL
(inches) Bbl Length Primer Powder Charge Weight
(grains) Velocity
(fps) Chamber Pressure
(psi) Print
1.575 5.6 Fed. 200 Bullseye 6.8 1,250 33,100 Print this recipe
1.575 5.6 Fed. 200 Red Dot 6 1,160 33,400 Print this recipe
1.575 5.6 Fed. 200 American Select 5.7 1,130 32,900 Print this recipe
1.575 5.6 Fed. 200 Green Dot 7 1,215 34,000 Print this recipe
1.575 5.6 Fed. 200 Unique 7.8 1,280 33,200 Print this recipe
1.575 5.6 Fed. 200 Power Pistol 8 1,305 33,800 Print this recipe
1.575 5.6 Fed. 200 Herco 8.2 1,305 34,000 Print this recipe
1.575 5.6 Fed. 200 Blue Dot 10.7 1,420 33,300 Print this recipe
1.575 5.6 Fed. 200 2400 14 1,295 32,500 Print this recipe
Click to expand...

I read 1.575 OAL, 14.0 grains of 2400 Maximum usin Federal 200 primers.


Personally I do not trim my revolver brass and seat my bullets at 1.585, or 1.590 if I use magnum primers. With the latter, I seem to be at the upper limit for the crimp grove.

I use the magnum primers with 13.1 grains of 2400 for my Desert Eagle and Standard primers with 13.3 grains of 2400 for my revolvers. It seems to me the magnum primer has about the same effect as a couple of tenths of a grain of 2400.
 
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