need advice on pietta .44

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gpwelding1

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ive always wanted a black powder .44 revolver.and lo and behold im on the cabelas website and find one thats on sale.
they have a pietta .44 caliber model 1851 confederate navy revolver with either a 5 1/2" or 7 1/2" barrel ,sale price $139.99.
my problem is ive never owned a black powder revolver,ive shot one and got hooked.but im not sure if its a good deal,if pietta is a decent gun,what i need to go with it,how much powder to use...................in other words,i dont know jack about it:banghead:,other than i like shooting them.
i would realy appreciate any advice.
 
:D looks like im not the only one who was excited!my wife was looking at me like i was ready for a rubber room when i was telling her about it:rolleyes:.
but when i order the steel frame revolver what else do i need to order with it?
i seriously know nothing about this.
 
I have a Pietta .44 cal 1851 steel frame 7 1/2 inch barrel with lots of use...paid $275 here in Canada.
I cast my own .457 inch balls from a Lee mold (Track of the Wolf) and use 25 grains of Goex black powder (FFFG). I fill the extra space in the chamber with corn meal leaving enough room for the ball to seat flush with the chamber. To prevent chain-fires I top the loaded (un-capped)chambers with 90% vegetable shortening with 10% bee's wax.
It shoots consistently low and to the left as someone has messed with the front sight,I need to fix that.
The .44 is a lot more powerful than the .36 version of the 1851,I think you can't go wrong getting one have fun.
 
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I'm going to respectfully disagree with Junkman 01, there's nothing wrong with a brass frame '51

If loaded responsibly (15-20gr 3f) they can and will last a lifetime. I've put north of 1,000 rounds through mine and it's probably the most fun to shoot. It doesn't eat much and puts out plenty of smoke and boom with those loads.

As a starter gun, I highly recommend the brass frame guns simply because they are less expensive to get into. Everybody has room for at least one Brassy in their family.
 
FotoJoe,

I didn't say there was anything wrong with a brass framed gun. I said the steel frame is stronger and can take heavier loads. You are saying the brass frame is fine if you load it responsibly ((15-20gr 3f). I do not see where we disagree?
 
Junkman 01,

I realize that the typed word lacks inflection and it's easy to mis-interperate some statements. I do agree with you that the steel frames are stronger, no arguement there.

It's just that the subject comes up relatively frequently and there are those out there who swear that the brass frame guns are "Junk", period. I actually think that they've got a lot of character. As far as using them to hunt bear with, not a chance, why just irritate the bear? But for punching paper what a great way to go!!

By the way, if I want something to put a BIG hole in an angry critter my choice would be a 230 RNFP in front of about 35-40gr 3f stuffed into a 45 Colt or 44-40 brass. Definitely not something that you would want to load into a brass frame anything.
 
Brass doesn't rust as vigorously as steel does, although it will tarnish.
My '51 brass is a great shooter, eats a steady diet of 20 gr loads. No issues yet.
 
i just got a Pietta 1858 Remington New Army, LOVE IT! it feels big, but probably because i have been doing my pistol shooting with a smaller framed handgun. the sights are really good too, i don't have a problem with them at all. it just feels good in my hand, it feels like a very good pistol that will last a lifetime.
 
I own 6 Italians, 3 Americans, 1 Japanese, and 1 Spanish. Notice the pattern here.
I like Italian guns a lot. Almost as much as I like Italian food. They give you a lot of quality for the money.
So far, mine haven't needed much tinkering to get them how I want them.
I've had to do more tinkering with my non-Italian centerfire guns than I have with my Piettas/Pedersoli.
For the most part, I just load them with powder and ball and shoot/enjoy them.

I have a strong preference for the Remington New Model Army design, but I also like my '51 Navies.
I don't think you'll go wrong with a Pietta. Just remember it's a black powder revolver, not a Ruger .44 magnum.
Not to say that they're not stout or well built. They're well made. I like them.
Be sure to let us know what you get, and how much it makes you involuntarily grin when you shoot it.
IMO, you're more likely to run into issues with the differing sizes/size tolerances of the different brands of percussion caps than you are to have problems with your Pietta.
Mine like Remington #10 caps.

My Pedersoli will likely get new nipples for a better fit with #11 caps, but my Pietta nipples seem perfect for the Remington 10s.
 
My son (15) has the brass-frame 1851-pattern 44 cal, 5-1/2" barrel Pietta-made "EMF" pistol. I say "1951-pattern" because there never was a '51 Navy in .44, nor with a 5-1/2" barrel; the Navy's were .36 cal with the 7-1/2" barrel.

That being said, he likes it a lot; and he's pretty consistant with it, loading 21 gr of Pyrodex behind a .451" roundball.

The little pistol was a door prize at an SASS banquet, and my brother's wife won it. Brother and wife shoot 1873-pattern pistols in competition, cartridge .32-20; her's are Rugers, his are (I think) Great Western's, both pairs tuned to match. Consequently, they had "no use" for a C&B pistol; so they gave it to Matt. He ultimately wants a 5-1/2" Remington; but he's liking his birthday present, and it seems to like him - at least according to his targets!
 
I would like to preach the anti-brasso stance to you, since all my guns are steel or SS, and a week ago I could have, but since I ordered the very same gun three days ago, I'll just shut up now.:cool:
 
ok,thanks for all the feedback.just orderd the '51 navy brass frame 7 1/2" barrel.i'll go with a steel frame on my next one,i just cant afford one right now.yes im already planning on buying another one:rolleyes:,i guess its adictive!
 
the cabelas website and find one thats on sale.
they have a pietta .44 caliber model 1851 confederate navy revolver with either a 5 1/2" or 7 1/2" barrel ,sale price $139.99.
Click to expand...

FYI, it's ALWAYS 'on sale'. Started out at around 89.99 'on sale' and gradually went up in 10$ increments. They do that alot, especially with their BP revolvers.(it's an illegal marketing tactic BTW)

Regardless of their phony 'sales', though, it's still the best price you'll find anywhere for that gun. I have one, got it back when it was 99.99 'on sale'. It shoots great. Very sturdy, locks up tight. As usual with any gun I own, it has taken a fair bit of abuse and is still going strong.
 
Please quote the law that makes their practice illegal. I think you are completely wrong. Cabelas deals directly with Pietta. The global economy fluctuates and Cabelas/Pietta have different wholesale price deals as the economy dictates. If you care to look at it as sour grapes, so be it. I see it as a boom to us.
 
Pulp, i did a little test to see how soft brass frames really are. i got a steel nail, sharpened it, and hardened it in the coal forge. then i took the cylinder out of my Super Companion, and the cylinder out of my bras framed 1858 Remington Texas. i made a small scratch with the nail on the inside of the frame under the top strap, and did the same with my brass Remington. the scratch was made with the same pressure, and they looked to be about the same depth and scratched with the same amount of pressure.

i did plenty of shooting with my brass framed Remington yesterday, mostly 30 grain loads with a round ball and the gun is still very tight, smooth, and crisp. no problems whatsoever. i don't think it will wear out anytime soon. and plus those 30 grain ball loads just feel so good to shoot. that nice authoritative recoil that lets you really know what you're dealing with. you don't forget that it's a handgun. even though it's civil war technology it's still very deadly.

another thing i found out about these modern brass revolvers, is that they don't use real brass in their frames. apparently it's an artillery grade bronze that is very strong.

i have concluded through my studies that a brass frame is still pretty strong. i make my own brass and aluminum knuckledusters, (some like collecting stamps, some like pens, some like magic shoes) i like brass knuckles. when i chain drill the pattern out and file it smooth i find that brass is had to work with because it's harder than aluminum. i generally stick with harder aluminum for my knuckledusters, and brass is mighty tough to work with. then the other day it hit me, don't they use aluminum to make those little J-frame air weight revolvers like the Ruger LCR? here's a picture of what I'm talking about.
 

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I took my brass Confederate Colt (.44) to the range yesterday.
Shot mostly 30 grain charges, although I squeezed in a 40 just for a loud boom.
Everything works just fine.
I plan to shoot it until it breaks because than I can buy another revolver!
 
Bless your heart...yeah, they don't cost alot but did you check to see how much for arms, hands, eyes, and other upper body extremities? I ain't trying to start a fire but a bunch of manuals will advise against that load unless you're shooting a Walker or Dragoon. A newcomer to the sport with an older revolver might get curious...
 
Busyhands94 said:
i found out about these modern brass revolvers, is that they don't use real brass in their frames. apparently it's an artillery grade bronze that is very strong.
Click to expand...
Can you provide your source for that?

Busyhands94 said:
i find that brass is had to work with because it's harder than aluminum.
Click to expand...
Is that true for all alloys of either material?

By the way, there's a great deal of difference between scratching the surface of a material with a nail and hammering it with impulsive loads from an explosive charge. Malleability and surface hardness are quite different properties. Concluding that a given material will not be affected by repeated impulses because it resisted scratching is comparing apples with oranges and concluding that pineapples taste good.
 
I ain't trying to start a fire but a bunch of manuals will advise against that load unless you're shooting a Walker or Dragoon.
Click to expand...
I know, but it sure was fun. The loading lever was even popping off just like the Walkers. :D
In all seriousness though accuracy was quite poor compared to my usual load of 20.
 
You boys are going to stretch those brass frame revolvers in time. It doesn't happen all at once.
They are brass NOT bronze Levi. They are not as strong as steel frame revolvers and you WILL eventually stretch it. Keep your loads light and it will last you a life time. Load it heavy and it's life is limited. Listen to those with more experience in these matters than you possess.
 
Adversum Orichalcum

mykeal said:
Can you provide your source for that?

Is that true for all alloys of either material?

By the way, there's a great deal of difference between scratching the surface of a material with a nail and hammering it with impulsive loads from an explosive charge. Malleability and surface hardness are quite different properties. Concluding that a given material will not be affected by repeated impulses because it resisted scratching is comparing apples with oranges and concluding that pineapples taste good.
Click to expand...

So what do yo need to know to compare an unknown steel to an unknown copper alloy?

I was tempted to type a bunch. But in short, you'd need to know a LOT more about the material properties. Some nice things to know: What the material is, and in what condition. From that, more nice things to know: Shear strength, modulus of elasticity, ultimate tensile strength...

Not to say that "brass" frames are necessarily good or bad, but... Not all that glitters is gold. And not all that has copper and is yellow-ish is "brass".

That aside, there are at least several copper alloys that I think have some surprising and exceptional qualities, even compared to some steels.

Other than that, there is always testing.

One thing I have noticed about the Italian replica steels I've seen... they are relatively soft. What does that say? Well... it could either be that they are simply not hardened, or that they are steels with low hardenability (or maybe both). Being soft implies good toughness (resistance to brittle fracture), but it also means it has a relatively low tensile strength. Suffice to say, a steel frame may not be all that much superior to a frame made from a copper alloy.

Lastly, copper never rusts. ;) It corrodes. When iron corrodes, we call it rust.

Just stirring the pot, I suppose. :D
 
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