need advice on pietta .44

[Busyhands94]

i figure that they would make a revolver out of strong materials. after all, it is meant to be shot, loaded with black powder and lead, enjoyed. through Google i turned up some information. if you look at bronze it has a slight brownish hue to it. if you look at brass you can see greenish sometimes grayish, or bluish coloring. bronze has a more yellow color, where brass is kind of a golden brown color. bronze is made of copper and tin, whereas brass is copper and zinc. you can also tell the difference between brass and bronze when you work with it. bronze will produce threads of metal when it is drilled, and brass will produce flakes instead. if you REALLY want to test it out you could take a tiny drill bit, and drill a little bit into a hidden area of the frame on a cheap gun, like maybe remove the grips and test it on the part that isn't exposed without drilling all the way through. i wouldn't do it but people are free to make their own decisions.

that's why i figure they are bronze. now I'm not saying a bronze frame is stronger than a steel frame. i would definitely advise against putting a heavy load of Triple Seven into a brass or bronze framed gun. i just figure it's made of strong materials, i mean if i ran Pietta i would make the guns out of a strong material to prevent idiots from damaging the gun and hurting themselves. if you look at these two images, the trumpet is brass, the cannon is bronze. i notice that the bronze has the same color that my revolver is. I'm not shooting down anybody's ideas, i just wanted to explain the differences between brass and bronze. my theory is that if a company makes a gun, they should design it with the worst case scenario in mind. that could be some idiot packing it with 30 grains of Triple Seven or FFFFG powder and a heavy conical, one can't help but imagine that they would thing about overloading and how to make the gun strong. i think with standard or light loads you should be fine.

 

[junkman_01]

Levi,

Believe me. They are BRASS.

 

[Lunie]

It ain't that simple...

Color can be an indication of composition, but just cause it looks a certain color, doesn't mean much.

Brass can easily have colors from red, yellow, "gold", brown, blue, green, even black, etc.

That goes for almost all copper alloys.

Not all "bronze" is a copper-tin alloy either. I like a series called "Aluminum Bronze", a Cu-Al alloy. Nifty stuff, that.

There are a dizzying array of copper alloy variations possible, and there are a large number of standardized alloys.

FWIW, a composition of 95% Cu, and ~5% Zn is called "Gilding Metal" or "Gilding Brass". (C21000)
90% Cu and ~10% Zn is called "Commercial Bronze". (C22000)
70% Cu and ~30% Zn is called "Cartridge Brass". (C26000)

The first two Copper-Zinc "Brasses" are normally very coppery colored. Gilding metal, as we know and love it is often seen formed into bullet jackets. Cartridge brass has that lovely yellow hue that makes cartridge cases so perty.

Anyhoo.

 

[Zombiphobia]

Please quote the law that makes their practice illegal. I think you are completely wrong

I may be wrong, and couldn't find it online, so I requested such statutes from the FTC. I'll let you know if/when I get an answer.

As far the rest of what you said, it is entirely unrelated to anything else I said. I said I HAVE a brass frame Pietta 'Navy' in .44 caliber. I like it... I abuse it.. and it still holds up and keeps going and shoots straight... so.. I dunno what the heck you're talking to me about 'sour grapes for'. Rather the marketing practice is legal or not has absolutely nothing to do with world trade economics or the fact that it's the best deal to be found...I was just saying 'it's not a legal marketing tactic'.. but hey, I just might be mistaken. It happens. I'll let you know if or when I hear back from the FTC. And BTW, no I'm not about to tell them cabela's is running an illegal marketing tactic, I LIKE those good deals... but if a sale price isn't really a sale price, it's not a freaking sale price... doesn't change a good deal into 'sour grapes' though. Can you point out to me where I was saying any such thing?


Now, instead of arguing about metalurigical make-up of a pistol frame, has anyobdy actually sent a letter to Pietta and ASKED exactly what metal/s they use?

 

[MCgunner]

I own that gun, got it at 120 bucks. It's brass frame, so I keep the loads under 25 grains BP as suggested by Cabelas literature that comes with the gun. I stretched out a brass frame navy when I was much younger, unknowingly, but they'll last if you don't stuff 'em full. Powder measure is by volume, so get some Lee scoops, what I use until I get a measure for my flask.

Yes, they have a steel frame 1860 army I like on sale, too, for 169. BUT, for 20 more, I got the 5.5" 59 Remington. I've been wanting that gun for a while and that is the cheapest they've listed it. I've seen it at 199 and 220 previously. I just couldn't resist it. Still waiting on shipment, est Aug 30 due to backorder, but I can wait a little longer, waited this long.

The brass Navy shoots about 4" groups at 25 yards off the bench, decent shooting gun. I got another 7" barrel at Gunbroker for it and fitted it with another wedge. That barrel shoots about 3" at 25, pretty decent. Hoping my new Remmy will group a bit better, but 3" is pretty decent for a replica. Like ALL colt replicas, it shoots high and I have to use an odd sight picture at 25 yards. Colts are supposed to be regulated for 75 yards, makes sense. Every one I've owned shot high at pistol ranges, but these things were carried on horseback for fighting at longer ranges. They were the repeating arms of their day.

 

[MCgunner]

BTW, guys, that brass navy .44 I stretched back in the early 70s, it only took 5 years and I didn't shoot it all THAT much, either, over that time. The frame stretched to the point that the end shake was soo bad it would NOT pop caps. I guess I coulda shimmed it, but I gave it to a friend who wanted a wall hanger. It cost me 50 bucks back in 73, got me into cap and ball, so I figure it was a decent investment. I wish I'd kept the loads light, though. It was a good shooting gun. It was the worst of all worlds, though, an open top gun in .44 caliber. I have a brass Remmy .31 I don't worry so much about. But, I load it light, too, when I shoot it. Well, I don't use 777 loads in it, put it that way, though I've tested 'em. Pyrodex pushes a 60 grain conical about 700 fps. That's pretty light. That gun is 20 years old near bouts and still tight as a drum.

 

[Whacked]

I remember a shipmate once telling a horror story about a brass framed .44
A little too much gap between the cylinder and barrel, even with the wedge all the way in. Fired the gun and 3 chambers ignited.
The gun was toast and his arms was numb up to his elbows. lucky he didn't loose anything.
But, on the flip-side. the gun was a hand-me-down and been fired a lot.

my first bp pistol was brass framed. I put a mess of rounds thru it with no issues. then again, I never overcharged it.
My new pistol is steel. I love it.

enjoy your gun. take care of it. dont overcharge it and it will last

 

[junkman_01]

If he was a shipmate, then you certainly know the difference between a sea story and a fairy tale.

A chain fire of only three chambers will certainly NOT make ones arms (?) numb up to the elbow nor turn the gun into toast!

I have experienced several chain fires in my life where anywhere from 2 -6 went off together and nether me nor the guns had ANY ill effects. I have learned that improper fitting caps are the biggest source of chain fires.

BTW, it's handgun not handsgun. They are firearms designed to be fired with one hand. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handgun

 

[MCgunner]

Well, I do fire my BP revolvers mostly from Weaver, just like I fire my autos and cartridge revolvers. It don't have to be fired with one hand just because that's how Wyatt did it.

I've never had a chain fire. I do understand gaps in cap fit are the most likely culprits for such events. An ill fitting ball would probably not be a good thing for this, either. I never had a chain fire on that brass navy right up until the time it stretched so bad it would not go off, excessive headspace, I guess you could say.

 

[Kaeto]

I just got one of the Pietta .44 Navy Brassies and there is a scooped out portion of the bottom of the grip frame. I think that means it could use the attachable shoulder stock. Am I correct or am I full of it?

 

[Zombiphobia]

Kaeto-- Here ya go- http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_92_187_189&products_id=12456

 

[arcticap]

Below are some images of firing the ancient handgonnes. How it's held often depends on how long the handgonne is, how steady a person wants to be able to hold it and how accurately that the person wants to be to aim it when firing.

1. http://img2.photographersdirect.com/img/13917/wm/pd2874197.jpg

2. http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/9885/handgonnetest2.jpg

3. http://www.elisanet.fi/wfan/strangefirearms/Handgonne1.jpg

4. http://www.acant.org.au/Articles/SmallArmsEvolution_files/HandGonne.gif

5. http://www.geocities.ws/wolfram_von_taus/Research/Research_images/HGnorth_1411.jpg

6. http://www.fototime.com/DC9111C0193AC52/standard.jpg

7. http://therionarms.com/misc/therionarms_s011_graywolf075.jpg


Here's the entire Google search results for handgonne images:

http://www.google.com/search?client...h&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=793&bih=459

 

[buttrap]

Not sure that the frames really stretch but the arbors tend move forward in the softer brass. They can be moved and set back where they belong though I really dont care to have to do that.

 

[Busyhands94]

this might sound dumb, but what exactly is the arbor? is it the place between the trigger guard and barrel on a Colt or what? i haven't been in BP for longer than a year, so i should probably know this. however I'm getting hooked on BP fast. and i wanna know more!

 

[arcticap]

The arbor on a Colt is the equivalent of the cylinder pin on a Remington and more. However it's larger in diameter than the Remington's cylinder pin and passes through the frame at the center of recoil shield. The forward portion also contains the wedge pin slot so that the wedge pin can hold the barrel to the frame.

 

[Busyhands94]

well that's good to know! thanks Arcticap!

 

[madcratebuilder]

I just got one of the Pietta .44 Navy Brassies and there is a scooped out portion of the bottom of the grip frame. I think that means it could use the attachable shoulder stock. Am I correct or am I full of it?

The cut out on the bottom of the grip is for attaching a shoulder stock. In addition to the cut out you need a notch on the recoil shield. These two pic's should help explain it.





Frame stretch on the brass frame Colts is tied to cylinder end play. The more end play the faster you may experience the frame stretching and deforming of the recoil shield caused by the ratchet at the back of the cylinder.

 

[Busyhands94]

you know what i want to see is a picture of a stretched brass frame. i am starting to wonder, could a person repair a stretched frame? i also heard something about the recoil shield getting bashed in over time, if that ever happens to me I'll probably bore it out partway and insert a hardened steel plate or something.

 

[Kaeto]

@ madcratebuilder : The one available from Dixie Gun Works doesn't hook to the recoil shield but to an extended hammer pin screw that is included when you purchase the stock.

 

[col.lemat]

I had a Spiller & Burr years ago that was streched. Someone befor me had tried to keep it shooting by takeing off about a 1/4 inch at the front of the frame only where the barrel made contact. It regained the barrel to cylender space but the rammer plunger seating depth was now shllow. I never did shoot the pistol and later sadly sold it. I had thought about all of the ways to properly restore the gun but concluded that it was perty much a lost cause. It would have been nice to keep as it was a origional Spiller & Burr, but it had just suffered to much abuse in the hands of it previous owners.
I have Heard of some steel shims being available but do not know what pistols they are made for. Also read that it wasent worth the money spent on the shims.

 

[buttrap]

You have to reset the arbor back to its proper spacing in the frame and repeen and pin the things. The one I had the arbor came out of the frame and shot the barrel down range. Bit of work and it worked fine for some years till I traded it off.