Need help choosing gun/caliber.

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Ukraine Train

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I'm shopping for my first handgun. Intended use is CCW, plinking and competition after a while. My first consideration is a CZ-40B (.40 cal, 10+1 cap), several people carry these but I'm afraid it'll be just a tad too big, especially with warm weather clothes. Next on the list are the RAP 440 (.40, 7+1) and RAP 401 (9mm, 8+1). The CZ is about 1.5" longer and 1" taller than the RAPs. Tuition is killin me so 9mm would be better in that it's cheaper but how effective is it compared to .40 for self defense, all else being equal? The CZ's size and capacity make it better for competition but the RAPs are better for CCW, which would you choose?
 
My first handgun was a .40 and frankly I wish I'd got a 9mm instead. 9mm ammo is cheaper, and +P or +P+ ammo is available and almost as powerful as .40 (and frankly its ad good as .40 for self defense).

The RAP 401 is an excellent choice for CCW and plinking ... my brother has one (and a 440) and its reasonably accurate, has a real nice trigger (its SA/DA and can be carried cocked and locked so you get that nice SA trigger all the time). Size wise it's almost exactly the same size as a Kahr K9 (so many holsters for the K9 should fit). I also belive the RAP is solidly built enough that it can handle +P ammo (which is better for self defense).

The CZ will be more accurate and a better competition gun, so you will have to decide which is more important CCW or competition (for me CCW is more important).

Other advantages to the CZ are the availablity of parts, accessories and qualified people to work on them.
 
Try a Milspec 1911. Would be the same size as the CZ, maybe a little thinner, and would be a much better caliber for self-defense. Would price would be comparable. Now ammo is a little more, but you can find good deals and could save some towards a .22 conversion for it to be able to shoot .22s; now you don't get much cheaper than that.
 
Some of the advantages listed for the CZ may not apply to the CZ-40B since it's not QUITE a CZ-75. Many parts are similar but few interchange. It's a really good value, I'm going to buy one tonight in fact on the way home, but a used CZ-75 might be a better bet. You can get it in 9mm, it's about the same size (only a couple mm smaller here and there) but a great gun.

You'd be hard pressed to go wrong with the price of the CZ-40B right now and the .40 CZ-75 magazines fit it for 12 or 13 round (depending on make) capacity. You might want to check out CZForum.com for more info.
 
9mm should be your first choice if you are on a budget and want to shoot often. 9mm ammo is the cheapest ceterfire ammo you can buy. It is also one of the most common. You will find it anywhere that sells ammo. 9mm is available in many, many loadings so you can choose between mild plinking ammo and full house +P+ ammo. 9mm in the better loadings, can really pack a punch. Cor-Bon and the old Black Talons are two of the hottest that I have found. On average, 9mm costs about 50% less than .40S&W. It will be easier to shoot than .40S&W because it has less recoil.

I had a RAP 401 and thought it was well made but my new gun broke the trigger spring within the first 50 rounds. It was only average in terms of accuracy and the trigger was slightly below average. It was a heavy gun for the number of rounds it shot and it didn't fit my hand all that well. There is not quite enough room on the grip for me to get my little finger on there. Forget about getting it repaired if it breaks and forget about trying to sell it if you don't like it. I sold mine at a huge loss because no one knew anything about the gun and the trigger.

The SIG 239 or Kahr line of pistols are well worth the money. Anything made by Beretta seems to be a winner if you don't mind the bulk. The Glock 19 is also worth a look. I don't like Glocks because they don't fit my hand well but many people love the way it fits. The Ruger P-95 is a little bigger but it is light and will not give you any problems.

You REALLY need to hold any gun before you buy. If possible, try and shoot a gun before you buy it also. A gun that feels good in the store, may feel different at the range due to recoil and trigger.

Whatever you get, get a 9mm first and then later try the larger cals if you think you need it. I don't think there is anything wrong with 9mm and would trust my life to a reliable 9mm that I could shoot well and fit me over the "best" .40S&W or .45acp that didn't.
 
The one problem i see with both pistols is parts if and when they break. The CZ-40 is a discountinued model after a short life and the Rap has very few models on the market. I personally would pick a model with a bigger support base. Having your CCW being your only handgun will suck if it breaks and parts are not to be readily found. There are many other models in the same price range to consider also.
 
:rolleyes: what he said (Majic)

I would recommend doing some more reasearch on the 9mm models available. I'm sure you wuold find something that would fit the bill better than what you are looking at. Good luck and tell what you pick.
 
I'd recommend 9mm. There is alot of inexpensive practice ammo available & any modern defensive ammo in 9mm will serve you well.
As for which pistol...it'll really come down to what you'll be using the gun for...carry or range. I normally suggest a fullsize gun first just so you can get more utility out of it & later get a compact version of the same gun ;)
 
Why not get a CZ-75B Compact in 9x19? More concealable than the CZ-40, and in a better starting caliber than the more expensive, harder kicking .40 S&W.
 
You may want to look at the Kimber Ultra Stainless II in .40 S&W; 3" barrel and 25oz; 7+1 capacity,SA. I feel a stock .40 S&W cartridge is much more effective for personal defense than a stock 9mm-look at the energy figures in the ballistic tables. Why go to +p or +p+ in a gun that may not be designed for it consistently, when you can get better personal defense performance from the standard .40 S&W? And the recoil is no big deal.
 
You may want to look at the Kimber...
Click to expand...
Okay, lets stop you right there ... I get the impression this boy's on a budget ... as nice as they are, the words "Kimber" and "Budget" just don't go together ;)


So Ukraine Train, how much do you have budgeted here? (before people start suggesting an Ed Brown Kobra carry or an officers model worked over by Larry Vickers :neener: )
 
look at the energy figures in the ballistic tables.
Click to expand...

The hottest .40 S&W loads are about 500 ft-lbs.
The hottest 9x19 loads are about 450.

11% extra muzzle energy? Whoop de do! :p

We haven't even gotten into how much of the .40 S&W ballistic edge will melt away when you saw the barrel off back to 3".

Also, a 3" single-stack 1911 in .40 S&W is about the least likely 1911 to actually work. Oops. ;)
 
Yeah, my budget is pretty tight. I'm looking to spend $250 max before shipping/ffl fees. Maybe I should just wait til I find out if Ohio gets CCW before I go nuts trying to decide heh.
 
Steyr M9 is not a bad choice ... CDNN has them for $277 (with 1 mag ... an additional mag is $19.99) +$9.99 shipping

they don't have guns on their web site, but you can download a PDF of their catalog with all the cool guns and stuff in it here http://www.cdnninvestments.com/dowournewcat.html

I just got a Steyr S40 from them (and already own an M40). Excellent little guns that happen to be priced real well right now.

If you still really want that CZ40, CDNN is the place to order it.
 
First Buy the right Gun

Then #2 PRACTICE!

#3 worry about the Caliber!

I suggest a Walther P99 if you can afford it.
 
For CCW, how bout the new SA XD-9 Subcompacts? I must admit those are pretty damn cool! :eek:

You even have the .40S&W option and go for the XD-40 Subcompact! ;)

Or, regular 4" is possible also.




Hmm... Colt Commander? :evil:
 
$250 huh...well that leaves out a whole bunch of possibilities......you're going to probably have to go used.....if you can get a used Glock 19(9mm) I'd say you're lucky...on this budget you might have to go with a used revolver.(at least around here)Actually a used SP101 is about $250.......For autos tho I'd go 9mm......for the above mentioned reasons....:cool:
 
Ukraine,

Since you're on a budget, have you considered a Makarov? Rock solid, very reliable. For $250, you can have gun, holster, and plenty of ammo. I know it is 9mmx18, but it is easy to get online. Just a thought.

R/fiVe
 
I've considered a Mak but it seems kinda dinky for CCW and I don't like the looks of it all that much, it remains a viable option, though.

I'd like to stay away from revolvers, I just have a personal preference for autos.
 
I've considered a Mak but it seems kinda dinky for CCW
Click to expand...

If by dinky you mean small then that's what alot of people strive for in a CCW. The bulky, fullsized, double stack service pistols (like the CZ-40) usually requires people to modify their style of dress to conceal it. Either buy larger pants for IWB or long covering garments for OWB. Shoulder rigs are even more difficult to size correctly than belt rigs. Whatever handgun you decide on, be sure to look at it carefully and imagine carrying it around all day and be realistic. If it feels large then remember it will be even larger because you have to add the holster.
A mid-sized model would probably serve your purpose best as a combo gun (CCW and range). Save up some more pennies for a competition pistol later. On your budget your choices in pistols will be limited and the surplus market is probably the best route to go. The field broadens somewhat with revolvers.
Just a few thoughts for a 1st time buyer.
 
By 'dinky' I meant the round isn't as powerful as a .40 or even 9mm luger and thus less desirable for carry. Perhaps this is a moot point, though. What do you guys think?
 
My primary CCW piece is a Makarov ... its about the smallest caliber I'd consider for self defense. I'd say you can't go wrong with a Mak ... and if you like you can customize it with nicer sights and grips and such. Great thing about a Mak is the things are built like a tank and utterly reliable.

Eric Larsen (PCRCCW here in these forums) makes some nice holsters for Maks ... and CZs too. http://www.hbeleatherworks.com/

I will agree that .40 or 9x19 is a better self defense round, but I wouldn't volunteer to stand in front of a Mak :p
 
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