Need Help convincing an anti... asap

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Vincent Vash

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I never in my life thought I would even have to make this post since although my family is liberal they are educated and tend agree or at least be willing to see another view with rational well presented arguments... but my friends folks......

So, I don't get to see this guy very often. He's a really good friend, but he does not have much life experience at all. He is up in my area for a week and I want to take him shooting since he has never done so (even just .22) with another friend. Both myself and this other friend are responsible people who know how to handle guns, be safe around them, and are able to make sure everyone has a good time without anyone getting hurt.

His dad however is extremely anti gun, and argues that A) somebody *could* get hurt (even though he admits it is extremely unlikely) B) feels that there are thousands of more ways to have fun without shooting guns and that because that is so there is no reason to shoot, and C) shot guns when he was a kid at camp, didn't enjoy it, so sees no reason why anybody else would, bringing up ridiculous "cost/benefit" arguments in response to my saying that most drivers on the road are more dangerous then anyone with a gun....

This is a man (my friends dad) who I like to be around (for the most part) and respect (although a little less now). He also hates computers, damns technology, and thinks people should be outside all the time >.< It's hard to view somebody as educated and intelligent with such stubborn unwavering views based on what he perceives as the only possible right solution even when shown possible flaws or solid counter-arguments...

My friend is 21, so you would think this would not be an issue, but because of how he was raised his dad's word is pretty much law (and if he did sneak it in he would not be able to keep the secret, not because he is a bad guy but because of some perceived guilt). I know part of this is parental concern

My parents, who are also anti gun, have somehow seen reason and don't mind that I shoot as long as I do so responsibly. I want to convince his dad but I don't think throwing any amount of research or statistics at him will do a thing.

It might be a lost cause but I am hoping maybe somebody here can give me an argument to present that will make him consider letting me take my friend shooting... the "I don't see him often and it's not all we would do" line failed...

I am going back to school shortly and will not see this friend for long time in all likelihood.. I know he is interested in shooting (at least trying it).

Thanks to anyone who can help or even tries... I feel this battle may be lost
:(
 
Sounds like his dad is one of those "unconvinceable" antis. When someone's opinions are all emotion like that, they usually won't change with logic. I think you should take the guy shooting anyway, but I don't know how you can deal with his dad. Unfortunate case.
 
If you want to do something that makes your friend uncomfortable you wouldn't be much of a friend.

Best to find other fun activities.
 
"Educated"(elitist), Liberal(emotional thinkers), Close-Minded know it all types...good luck, you're going to need it.

Why are you under the thumb of everyone else. Why do you care so much about what everybody else's opinion is. Be your own person.
 
If this person were under 18, I would say that you should follow what his Dad says. Personally, though, you should leave it up to the friend - if he wants to go, he should go. If not, then find something else to do. He's 21, let him decide for himself.

The father...you probably won't convince. I have a coworker like that. She absolutely hates guns and refuses to learn anything about them. Blames the gun for any act of violence...and yet actually carries non-gun weapons for self defense.
 
One of the rites of passage into manhood is doing the things that you want to do even if they are in direct opposition to your parent's wishes.

Examples:

Marry the girl YOU want to marry.

Embark on the career of YOUR choice.

And, if you want to participate in the shooting sports, then YOU do that.
 
Bottom line.. Each person has the right to feel whatever they feel like feeling.

No one has the right to FORCE someone else to feel the same way they do.

Tell your friend to make up his own mind, and accept the outcome. Don't push, no reason to apply any peer pressure.

I found that talking about how much fun shooting is tends to get people more interested than going head to head with them about gun politics.

"Win more flies with honey than salt"

Post pics online of your range trips, acquisitions, talk about guns but don't push.

"Man I had a great time at the pistol range today!"

Says precisely the same thing as:

"You don't know what you are missing"

But... Without the criticism.
 
hso said:
If you want to do something that makes your friend uncomfortable you wouldn't be much of a friend.

Best to find other fun activities.
Click to expand...
My friend is fine with it, it is his dad who is not. And since they are family friends, going behind his dads back is a great way to just cause problems. I guess it probable won't happen but I was hoping somebody might be able to help me approach it from another angle.

Also, I am in college, getting an education, I don't think that makes me an elitist. My point in saying he was educated was merely trying to say it is extremely frustrating arguing with somebody who has had the background and experience to NOT make instant close minded views, but does so anyways.
 
"Win more flies with honey than salt"
Click to expand...

You win even more with maneur, what's your point? Sorry, had to use the line from my favorite TV show.

My friend is fine with it, it is his dad who is not. And since they are family friends, going behind his dads back is a great way to just cause problems. I guess it probable won't happen but I was hoping somebody might be able to help me approach it from another angle.
Click to expand...

If he's 21, you're not "going behind his Dad's back." When I turned 18 (and it was fairly recently compared to most people on this forum), my parents could only control what I do in their house.
 
Trent said:
Bottom line.. Each person has the right to feel whatever they feel like feeling.

No one has the right to FORCE someone else to feel the same way they do.

Tell your friend to make up his own mind, and accept the outcome. Don't push, no reason to apply any peer pressure.

I found that talking about how much fun shooting is tends to get people more interested than going head to head with them about gun politics.

"Win more flies with honey than salt"

Post pics online of your range trips, acquisitions, talk about guns but don't push.

"Man I had a great time at the pistol range today!"

Says precisely the same thing as:

"You don't know what you are missing"

But... Without the criticism.
Click to expand...
I might just have to take that approach and accept that shooting with him this weekend is unlikely...

And I do agree with what people are saying, and what being an adult is. I would just have preferred to go about this in a way that does not "stir the pot" as it were.

Oh well, I appreciate the feedback.
 
^^ Being "educated" in no way makes you no longer close minded and stubburn. I don't know where you get that idea, LOL.

Why was daddy involved in you and your friends plans anyways. Time to cut the cord.
 
This is a man (my friends dad) who I like to be around (for the most part) and respect (although a little less now). He also hates computers, damns technology, and thinks people should be outside all the time >.< It's hard to view somebody as educated and intelligent with such stubborn unwavering views based on what he perceives as the only possible right solution even when shown possible flaws or solid counter-arguments...

It was simply amazing how much smarter my parents became as I got older.

Your friend doesn't want to go against his fathers wishes but you are encouraging him to do so. Who is being stubborn here?
 
Last edited:
Skribs said:
You win even more with maneur, what's your point? Sorry, had to use the line from my favorite TV show.
Click to expand...

Yeah I goofed it.

The saying my granddad always used was "you catch more flies with honey than ****"

Honey is sweet but makes the flies stick to it, thereby catching them.

Manure they just land on and buzz off after eating/laying eggs.
 
It just occurred to me, but doesn't the term "liberal" imply one is open minded by definition?
Liberal: Adjective:
Open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values. >.<

So much for that theory :)

Really the argument came down to the fact his dad thinks "Somebody *could* get hurt" and my having to resist firing back with "Any time you leave the house you can get hurt". Although yes, there is a higher risk of a firearms related accident then say, walking to the store to get groceries, the risk of several adults responsibly plinking with a .22 bolt action is pretty freakin' minimal... Oh well.
 
People are people. You can't label some group a certain way and expect everyone to act according to whatever you label them. You gave plenty of proof that your friend's liberal father is a closed minded maroon.
 
You can bring a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

That being said, if everyone is an adult then who the hell is the dad to tell others what they should or shouldn't do? Frankly, I am irritated by people like that.
 
Teaching someone to shoot, and to do so safely, is a little like teaching them to swim. Deep water won't go away just because someone doesn't know how to swim.
 
Um, go shooting and don't explain, if his dad has an issue with it, well,
it's irrational, and that means that

why waste your time.
 
Look, this is VERY simple. You go shooting when YOU want. The invitation is open to him if HE wants to go. You'll still be his friend (if that's what YOU want) whether he goes or not. What his relationship is with his dad is not your problem, nor concern. What his dad's relationship with you or your family is not your problem or concern. You are all adults, each ONE of you has to make his or her own decisions and handle the repercussions.

Putting emotional investment into what your friend should or shouldn't do or what his father thinks about it and how your friend feels about what his father thinks or what-ever-else is so much teeny soap opera fluff.

Open the door to him then move along with your own life. He'll come through the door or he won't and that's HIS road to walk.
 
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