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Need help gathering info about Savage model 3 rifles

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Rob62, Dec 31, 2006.

  1. Rob62

    Rob62 Member

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    Maybe someone here will be able to add some information to a thread I started over on Rimfirecentral.com. The original thread can be found here:

    http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163291

    I am looking for *any* information about the Savage model 3 series of rifles. These great little rimfire guns were made in the early 1930’s through late 40’s or early 50’s.

    Specially interested in pictures of your guns. If you have any additional information, or if you can just confirm the configuration of your specific rifle that would be greatly appreciated. Feel free to post the pics or info here.

    Some of the questions that need answering or confirmation.

    1. What version of the model 3 do you own and is it in original condition?
    2. What is the barrel length?
    3. Do you know when it was made?
    4. What kind of sights does it have on it?
    5. Does it have a cast or metal stamped trigger guard?
    6. Is the bolt and or trigger chrome plated?
    7. Is the stock walnut, and does it have finger groove/s on the front?
    8. What kind of butt plate does it have, metal, hard rubber, or plastic?

    Lastly I thought I had a link to a Savage firearms collectors bulletin board. Unfortunately I can't find it. Does anyone have a link?

    Thanks and Happy New Year,

    Rob


    --------SAVAGE 3 SERIES Rifle Information--------

    There were several variations of the Savage model 3 rifle made. The basic version is a single shot bolt action, .22RF chambered rifle. It appears that all variations of the M3 were single shot and that the added model variation such as “A”, “B”, “C” and so forth only denoted minor changes or additions to the rifle. But none included major modifications such as a box or tube magazine. Models included the 3, 3A, 3B, 3C, 3D, 3DE, 3E, 3S, and 3ST.

    There is conflicting information as to dates of manufacture. Some references show they were manufactured 1930-47, others 1933-52.

    One reference that was printed in 1931, listed the M3 as "new" at that time, with a wholesale price of $3.90, retail $4.85, packed 10 and 25 in a case. Therefore it is reasonable to presume that in fact the first M3’s came off of the production line in either 1930 or ’31. However, this same reference showed M3’s with a 39" over all length, and having a 22" barrel and steel butt plate. The stock pictured is not grooved on the sides. (This might have been pre-production info).

    Some 1931 dated materials show a grooved stock and list a 24" barrel. The barrel length is important in narrowing down when M3’s were manufactured. Most references printed recently show that Pre-war (WWII) models have 26" barrels, post-war 24". This is confusing, as publications from the early 1930’s do not reflect this same information, reference above.

    The below information comes directly from Savage Wholesale fliers, catalogs, and parts manuals, unless otherwise shown, all printed in the years indicated.

    1933, listed overall length at 41 1/2" with a 24" barrel, walnut stock w/groove on side and steel butt plate. Bolt and trigger are chrome plated. D&T'ed for the 55 Lyman rear peep.

    1934, (Catalog) Same as 1933 but now 43 1/2" over all w/26" barrel.

    1934, (Parts Manual) lists a 3-A & 3-B (not in 1932, 1933 not available). 3-A is a change to the bolt assembly (1/2 cocks on opening, 1/2 on close?), no parts difference listed for 3-B (something minor?)

    1935, (Catalog) stock is heavier (no groove), hard rubber butt plate. D&T for Lyman 55 dropped, replaces with Savage peep sight on 3-S. 3-ST listed

    1936, the Savage #10 scope was available but rifle not D&T'ed.

    1937, rifle now D&T'ed for telescope sight (this would be for the Weaver "T" mount, 2 holes on left side of action).

    1938, no change

    From “The Rifle in America” by Philip B. Sharpe. (NRA reprint of the 1938 version)
    M3’s were introduced in 1931. Walnut stock, 26" barrel, hard-rubber plate.
    Model 3, gold bead front sight, flat-top rear.
    Model 3S, slot blank in rear sight dovetail, hooded front sight on ramp base (hood holds the removable sight in place). Savage receiver peep sight attached on the left side at rear. Sometime before 1938 the rear blank was replace with a fold down Savage rear sight.
    Model 3ST, same as the 3S plus a 7/8" sling strap, sling studs and swivels.
    The above three variations were still in production in 1938.

    In 1938 the Model 3 with basic iron sights was available with the Savage #10 scope (Weaver 329) in Weaver mounts (Presumably this would have been the "T" series as in 3T. However it is not clear in the way it is listed.)

    The later parts manual shows only the "3" as the first variation. The later rifle (post WWII?) lists the 3C, 3D, 3DE, 3E, 53C, 53CD, 53D and the Model 83. Whenever a change was made Savage would bump the letter call out on the model.

    1939, pictured with the bent metal guard, 1940 has the cast metal guard. 3-ST no longer listed.

    1940, no change noted

    1941, no change noted

    Production was around 9000 units per year in 1933-1939 (Savage sales records...this is the only years data available on so far)

    Basic rifle information (Note - all these models may in fact not be in existence. Reference to some was found on the internet, as such it is subject to question):

    Model 3, open iron sights, gold bead front, flat-top rear.

    Model 3A, open iron sights, stamped metal trigger guard, finger groove in front of stock

    Model 3B - open iron sights, blued bead front, 24” barrel, bolt has a cocking knob, chromed smooth-
    handled bolt and trigger, finger groove in front of walnut stock, no sling attachments, metal butt plate with factory horizontal grooves cut in it, slot for bolt; is straight with an arrow stamped in the bolt pointing to the cocking knob, no safety, left rear of receiver drilled and tapped w/ 2 holes, manufactured prior to mid 1944

    Model 3C - ?

    Model 3D, open iron sights, gold bead front, 24" barrel, cast "pot metal" trigger guard, walnut stock, no finger groove in front of walnut stock, left rear of receiver drilled and tapped w/ 2 holes, chrome plated bolt and trigger, bolt knob is smooth - not knurled.

    Model 3DE - ?

    Model 3E - ?

    Model 3S, slot blank in rear sight dovetail, hooded front sight on ramp base (hood holds the removable sight in place). Savage receiver peep sight attached on the left side at rear. Sometime before 1938 the rear blank was replace with a fold down Savage rear sight.

    Model 3ST, same as the 3S plus a 7/8" sling strap, sling studs and swivels.

    ---------------------End of general info---------------------------------------------



    Savage model 3D shown over a Remington 510

    [​IMG]

    Left side of Savage 3D

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2007
  2. joebogey

    joebogey Member

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    godale likes this.
  3. Rob62

    Rob62 Member

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    Thanks for the link joebogey. I posted a request for info there.

    Anyone here have any other info to contribute?

    Regards,
    Rob
     
  4. Rob62

    Rob62 Member

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    bump
     
  5. Rob62

    Rob62 Member

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  6. Rob62

    Rob62 Member

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  7. Rob62

    Rob62 Member

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    bump - with updated information. (Thinking to self - it apears that after a certain period posts can no longer be edited)

    --------SAVAGE 3 SERIES Rifle Information--------

    There were several variations of the Savage model 3 rifle made. All were bolt action, single shot, .22 RF (S, L, LR). Added model designation such as “A”, “B”, “C”, etc. only denoted minor changes or additions to the rifle. None included major modifications such as a box or tube magazine. Models included the 3, 3A, 3B, 3C, 3D, 3DE, 3E, 3S, and 3ST.

    There is conflicting information as to dates of manufacture. Some references show they were manufactured 1930-47, others 1933-52.

    One reference that was printed in 1931, listed the M3 as "new" at that time, with a wholesale price of $3.90, retail $4.85, packed 10 and 25 in a case. Therefore it is reasonable to presume that in fact the first M3’s came off of the production line in either 1930 or ’31. However, this same reference showed M3’s with a 39" over all length, and having a 22" barrel and steel butt plate. The stock pictured is not grooved on the sides. (This might have been pre-production info).

    Some 1931 dated materials show a grooved stock and list a 24" barrel. The barrel length is important in narrowing down when M3’s were manufactured. Most references printed recently show that Pre-war (WWII) models have 26" barrels, post-war 24". This is confusing, as publications from the early 1930’s do not reflect this same information, reference above.

    Of considerable help in identifying dates of manufacture will be the barrel stamp as to city of manufacture (Chicopee Falls, MA and Utica, NY). Savage was back in production during 1947 at the Chicopee Falls, MA, plant. Therefore you wouldn't find a Chicopee Falls stamped barrel before 1947, but you might find a Utica stamped barrel for a little while after the move, till inventory was used up.

    The below information comes directly from Savage Wholesale fliers, catalogs, and parts manuals, unless otherwise shown, all printed in the years indicated.

    1933, listed overall length at 41 1/2" with a 24" barrel, walnut stock w/groove on side and steel butt plate. Bolt and trigger are chrome plated. D&T'ed for the #55 Lyman rear peep sight that mounts to a receiver with 2 hole receiver spacing being 1/2" center to center.

    1934, (Catalog) Same as 1933 but now 43 1/2" over all w/26" barrel.

    1934, (Parts Manual) lists a 3-A & 3-B (not in 1932, 1933 not available). 3-A is a change to the bolt assembly (1/2 cocks on opening, 1/2 on close?), no parts difference listed for 3-B (something minor?)

    1935, (Catalog) stock is heavier (no groove), hard rubber butt plate. D&T for Lyman # 55 rear peep sight dropped, replaced with Savage peep sight on 3-S. 3-ST listed

    1936, the Savage #10 scope was available but rifle not D&T'ed.

    1937, rifle now D&T'ed for telescope sight, 2 holes on left side of action. The mount used was the Weaver "T" mount (T-1 and T-3). The 2 hole spacing was 2 3/8", center to center. (The next later common mount Weaver made and may be encountered on these rifles is the "N" mount, it used four holes but the outside two holes are only 3 1/8" apart)

    1938, no change

    From “The Rifle in America” by Philip B. Sharpe. (NRA reprint of the 1938 version)
    M3’s were introduced in 1931. Walnut stock, 26" barrel, hard-rubber plate.
    Model 3, gold bead front sight, flat-top rear.
    Model 3S, slot blank in rear sight dovetail, hooded front sight on ramp base (hood holds the removable sight in place). Savage receiver peep sight attached on the left side at rear. Sometime before 1938 the rear blank was replace with a fold down Savage rear sight.
    Model 3ST, same as the 3S plus a 7/8" sling strap, sling studs and swivels.
    The above three variations were still in production in 1938.
    In 1938 the Model 3 with basic iron sights was available with the Savage #10 scope (Weaver 329) in Weaver mounts (Presumably this would have been the "T" series as in 3T. However it is not clear in the way it is listed.)
    The later parts manual shows only the "3" as the first variation. The later rifle (post WWII?) lists the 3C, 3D, 3DE, 3E, 53C, 53CD, 53D and the Model 83. Whenever a change was made Savage would bump the letter call out on the model.

    1939, pictured with the bent metal guard, 1940 has the cast metal guard.
    3-ST no longer listed.

    1940, no change noted

    1941, no change noted

    Production was around 9000 units per year in 1933-1939 (Savage sales records...this is the only years data available on so far)


    Basic rifle information: .22RF (S, L, LR) Bolt Action Single Shot. (Note - all these models may in fact not be in existence. Reference to some was found on the internet, as such it is subject to question):

    Model 3, open iron sights, gold bead front, flat-top rear, walnut stock.

    Model 3A, open iron sights, stamped metal trigger guard, finger groove in forend of walnut stock.

    Model 3B - open iron sights, blued bead front, 24” or 26" barrel, bolt has a cocking knob/safety, chrome plated smooth-handled bolt and trigger, finger groove in fore end of walnut stock - there is also a report that some stocks did not have the finger groove in the forend, no sling attachments, metal butt plate with factory horizontal grooves cut in it - also reported to come with a hard rubber/plastic butt plate, stamped metal trigger guard, slot for bolt; is straight with an arrow stamped in the bolt pointing to the cocking knob, no safety, left rear of receiver drilled and tapped w/ 2 holes, known to have been manufactured prior to mid 1944 - unknown when production stopped.

    Model 3C - Open iron sights, gold bead front, 26" barrel, chrome plated smooth-handled bolt and trigger, cast "pot metal" trigger guard, no finger groove in forend of walnut stock, hard rubber/plastic butt plate, left front of receiver drilled and tapped with 2 holes, 2 3/8" hole spacing center to center for the Weaver "T" mount, does not have a cocking knob.

    Model 3D, open iron sights, gold bead front, 24" barrel, cast "pot metal" trigger guard, no finger groove in forend of walnut stock, left rear of receiver drilled and tapped w/ 2 holes, 7/8" hole spacing center to center for the Savage #150 peep sight, chrome plated bolt and trigger, bolt handle is smooth - not knurled, does not have a cocking knob, known to have still been in production as late as early 1947.

    Model 3DE - ?

    Model 3E - ?

    Model 3S, slot blank in rear sight dovetail, hooded front sight on ramp base (hood holds the removable sight in place), Savage receiver peep sight attached on the left side at rear, sometime before 1938 the rear blank was replace with a fold down Savage rear sight.

    Model 3ST, same as the 3S plus a 7/8" sling strap, sling studs and swivels.


    ---------------------End of general info---------------------------------------------
     
  8. Rob62

    Rob62 Member

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    BTT

    Still looking for more owner comments of these rifles.
     
  9. Essex County

    Essex County Member

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    I picked up one a couple of years ago. It's an 85% one that I bought sight unseen. I happen to enjoy single shot .22's. I remember how much my first one meant to me. My granson turn seven next month and I'm gong to start him off with a Winchester 02 and give him the Savage three when he outgrows the 02. I have shot the 3 and I find it to be excellent. Essex
     
  10. Rob62

    Rob62 Member

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    Essex County - Any chance you can post some pics or links to pics of yoru rifle? If you you E mail me pics of your gun I will link them here in this thread.

    If for some reason you do not want pics of your gun displayed on the internet, I fully understand that. Would you then post specific info about your gun, such as:


    1. What version of the model 3 is it (plain 3, 3A, 3B, 3C, etc?)
    2. What is the barrel length?
    3. Do you know when it was made?
    4. What kind of sights does it have on it? Is the receiver drilled and tapped on the left side for a peep sight - what is the distance between holes?
    5. Does it have a cast or metal stamped trigger guard?
    6. Is the bolt and or trigger chrome plated? Does the bolt have a cocking knob?
    7. Is the stock walnut, and does it have finger groove/s on the front, sling swivels?
    8. What kind of butt plate does it have, metal, hard rubber, or plastic?

    Any other information speciffic to your rifle would be greatly appreciated and help this project along. Thanks for contributing.

    Regards,
    Rob
     
  11. Rob62

    Rob62 Member

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    Btt,

    These rifles, or owners of them are unbeliveably difficult to find. Since this quest for information started I have hit local gun shows and asked others to look as well. So far no one has seen any model 3s out there.

    Yesterday I did see a model 4 at the North Atlanta Trade Center gun show (An Eastman show). It was in really rough condition and stickered at $100. The stock looked oil soaked. Lots of minor pitting on the barrel and some on the receiver. Most of the original finish was also gone.

    Rob
     
  12. marksman13

    marksman13 Member

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    Rob, I just started a thread today asking about this rifle...guess I should have used the search feature. Here are a few picks of the Savage Model 3D that I picked up last night. It belonged to my Grandfather. From what I remember it is a fairly accurate gun. Not sure how accurate it is compared to more modern designs. Thanks for all the info you have posted. By the way, about how much would this rifle be worth in say 90% of original cohttp://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=254266ndition?

    This is the link to the pics.
     
  13. Rob62

    Rob62 Member

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    marksman13, I posted a reply in your thread referenced.

    Rob
     
  14. kragluver

    kragluver Member

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    I've been lurking on this forum for a long time and decided to join so that I can reply to your post.

    I was just given a Savage Model 3 by a friend of mine. I ran across your post while trying to do some research on this rifle.

    It is marked Model 3 (no other letter). It has finger grooves in the forearm and a curved steel buttplate. It is NOT D&T'd for a receiver sight and has a simple buckhorn style rear sight with gold bead front sight. The bold and bolt-handle are chromed but the trigger is not. Barrel measures 24" and overall length is 41-3/4". The trigger guard is stamped. The stock appears to be Walnut and there are no sling swivels.

    Based on the descriptions in the previous posts, this looks like a circa 1933 rifle, but its not D&T'd and the trigger is not chromed. Also, the bolt has red paint around it that shows when cocked.

    The metal looks like it may have been re-finished at some point as it is browned and not blued. The browning quality is not great and looks like a "bubba" job -- either that, or its just aged. It doesn't look too bad, just not "factory". Overall, the rifle appears to be in very good shape. The bore was very clean. Anyone have any idea to value?

    Ken
     
  15. Rob62

    Rob62 Member

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    Hi Ken, and welcome to becoming a forum member.

    Thank you for sharing your rifles information. From your description of the finish I would presume that your factory bluing has just turned brown from age and use. Many of these older guns' metal finishes have become brown.

    You will find that the current prices are all over the place. First and foremost is that while the Savage model 3 series of rifles are not common - at least from what I have seen. The prices are not reflected by this scarcity. There does not seem to be any collector interest whatsoever.

    I would place a value of $100-$175 on of your rifle.

    Regards,
    Rob
     
  16. kragluver

    kragluver Member

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    Howdy Rob and thanks for the welcome and info. I'm not certain I'm going to sell the rifle yet. I have four young boys and having an extra .22 around is not a bad thing. I could use the space in the gun safe though:)
     
  17. Rottresq

    Rottresq Member

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    Savage model 3 info

    Mine is stamped Savage model 3, no serial #. OAL= 40in BBL = 24in. Trigger guard forged seel. Bolt and trigger chromed. Gold bead front sight. Lyman 55W peep sight. Original Walnut stock, no fingergroves. Has steel butt-plate. Take-down screw knurled. Bolt knob is smooth. Appears original except for peep sight. Looks like rear dovetail may have been removed and then peep installed. Blue is 85-90% bore is good and rifle function correctly and is accurate. A "14" inside a circle is stamped at the breech end of the barrel.
    Unknown if this is significant or just a proof or foundary mark.
     
  18. john from md

    john from md Member

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    Can anyone tell me how to disassemble a model three bolt?

    Thanks,

    John from MD
     
  19. gcrookston

    gcrookston member

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    My father's first rifle was a Savage M3. I had it for many years after his passing, then gave it to my brother for his children to use when they became old enough to start shooting. My father got the rifle when he was 12 or 13, this would have been 1930-31.

    It has a slender finger grove stock, spring wire leaf rear sight. gold bead front sight may not be original. No serial # and marked Savage Model 3. Take down is by a single large screw forward of the spring steel trigger guard. The guard is held in place by two wood screws. Steel butt plate. Don't remember the barrel length, but I'm guessing 22". I'll see if I can get my brother to shoot me a picture of it.

    It already had a hair trigger when I was growing up and became completely unsafe to shoot or handle loaded by the time I was in my early teens. In 1989 I took it to an old time gun smith who fabricated parts to fix the problem (I don't recall specifically what the problem was other than it was just worn out).
     
  20. gimposaurus

    gimposaurus Member

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    I have a 3b, walnut stock, stamped trigger guard, serial 2401, plastic buttplate. It's in pretty rough condition I picked it up for $40 from a sports store (I'm in New Zealand)
     
  21. gimposaurus

    gimposaurus Member

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    it's also not dovetailed and has no fingergrooves in the forend.
     
  22. GreenMachine

    GreenMachine Member

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    My Savage 3B Configuration

    26" BBL, open sights, gold bead front sight, rear sight assembly has dovetail drilled & tapped for a single pivot screw about which the rear sight can be adjusted for windage. Walnut stock has nicely fluted comb and has black-painted forend tip, length of painted section about 2.18". No finger grooves on forend. No sling hardware or holes. Has blued stamped-steel trigger guard and hard rubber butt plate. Bolt body and handle is chrome-plated, as well as the trigger. Blued cocking knob has diagonal knurling. Arrow on bolt body points back towards cocking knob. Bolt cocks when lifting bolt handle, but as no safety. Receiver has no tapped holes for peep sight nor does stock have any inletting for same. There are a pair of 10-32UNF tapped holes, 2.35" center distance, on the left side of the receiver for scope mounting. I would normally say these were added by the owner, except the threads are blued and the forward screw hole occurs where the barrel fits inside the receiver; the radius of the turned-down diameter of the barrel is visible at the bottom of the forward tapped hole, indicating that that hole was drilled & tapped before the barrel and receiver was assembled. Also indicative that the holes may have been factory original is that there is none of the typical "show" you would see on the blueing if a mount had been present. I'm not sure of this assessment, so would appreciate an expert's take on this. I just can't imagine a basement gunsmith taking the barrel off the receiver to tap the hole, when a bottoming tap would do the trick. I just joined High Road and appreciate this forum.
     
  23. Patch007

    Patch007 Member

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    My 3D

    I received my Model 3D from my Father and he received it from his dad before that...It has the 24 inch barrel.....Hard rubber or plastic buttplate...Lyman R55W peep sight(missing rear appature) and Chrome plated bolt and trigger. The trigger guard is cast and unfortunately I re-finished about 10 years ago not knowing better....
     

    Attached Files:

  24. Clockworkskin

    Clockworkskin Member

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    I stumbled across this thread while looking for a rail for this rifle. My original intention was to throw an old leupold 3x on it but after reading this I think I'll just leave it as it.

    Like many of you, this was handed to me from my father. I would like to date it but I cannot find a serial number. Where is the SN stamped? I removed the action from the stock and looked underneath but still, nothing.

    I'll work on getting some pictures later.
     
  25. Rob62

    Rob62 Member

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    As far as I know these rifles were not serial numbered - as most firearms made prior to 1968 did not require this in the USA.

    gimposaurus reporting a serial # of 2401 is a first. I too would like to know where he found this number on his rifle and does it look like it was factory stamped.

    Rob
     

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