Need Help Ientifying This Replica Colt Grip Frame

[expat_alaska]

I'm a noob and most of you guys know a heckuva lot more than I do.

I have a 3-different grip-style/triggerguard project in mind for my Pietta 1851 Navy .36: squareback TG w/Pietta "tail" grips (which I have now); modified gripframe/grips w/round/oval TG to more simulate the original colt design; and an 1860 gripframe/TG/grip to fit the 1851.

I ordered the Pietta1851 squareback TG and a Pietta 1851 gripframe from Taylor's. The TG was just as imagined, but the gripframe is not for an 1851 Navy. As Taylor's was so good in procuring the squareback TG for me, I don't want send the gripframe back, and would ask assistance from you folks as to what I have before I proceed further, considering my project.

The first pic is the naked gripframe.



The second pic is the gripframe as it mates to the original grip on my 2014 Pietta 1851 Navy.



I am thinking the gripframe is a Colt 1860 Army, but I need confirmation.

I am hoping it is not a Dragoon gripframe as I don't see Pietta manufacturing a Dragoon revolver.

Any help you folks can offer will be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

Jim

 

[Prairie Dawg]

Hi:
1860 Army backstraps are steel and the grip is about 3/4 inch longer than a Navy grip.
What you have there is not an Army gripframe IMHO
--Dawg

 

[expat_alaska]

Yes, I know that 99+% of all Colt 1860 gripframes are blued steel and it's not even close to being 3/4" longer.

Any other guesses? I think it is too small to be Dragoon gripstrap.

I am puzzled, but someone out there knows WTH it is.

Thanks for your response Prairie Dawg.

Jim

 

[ivankerley]

um my uberti 1860 civie begs to differ, sports the brass backstrap
heres the grip profile, yeah the army is longer
piettas have a slightly different shape than both the originals and even ubertis
hope ya find out what ya got
gene

 

[Jim K]

I expect that Taylor's is the only possible source of the information you want. With dozens of outfits making repros of the 1851 Navy, each slightly different, I doubt very much that anyone here can help beyond guesswork.

Jim

 

[44 Dave]

With Pietta having the wrong grip shape, who knows. I found a grip frame (possibly from a '73) of an unknown origin to correct my grip shape, to match with my Uberti. It didn't stick down like yours, but yours shows the Pietta hooked heel.

The more I look at what you have sure looks to be the proper Colt shape, the blank grip is shaped to the brass of each gun so you can't inter change one part and expect every thing to fit perfectly.
Can you not just swap the trigger guard?

 

[Curator]

expat_alaska,

Switching grip frames without also installing new wood is often a problem with the Colt design. These guns have the grip wood and grip frame finished as a unit when assembled at the factory. Meaning: unfinished/oversize grip frame and unfinished grip blank are screwed to the unfinished frame. Then the whole assembly is ground down and polished to match. That is the cheapest and most efficient way to get good wood-to-metal fit with cast/unfinished parts. You can get lucky and have parts that will switch from one gun to another but not usually.

 

[Rebel Dave]

I think what you have there is a 51 grip frame from a Uberti, or ASM. Their grip frames tend to be more "authentic" shaped, vice, the trumpet shape of the Pietta.

You should be able to make it fit, and then, fit a new stock to the frame. You will end up with a more "authentic" 51. You can also go the easier route, and fit 2 piece grips to the frame also.

Good Luck. Rebel Dave

 

[expat_alaska]

Thanks Guys!

Hi:
1860 Army backstraps are steel and the grip is about 3/4 inch longer than a Navy grip.
What you have there is not an Army gripframe IMHO
--Dawg

Wow! 3/4"? That sent me back to Flayderman's book to look and compare. I think you are pretty close.

um my uberti 1860 civie begs to differ, sports the brass backstrap
heres the grip profile, yeah the army is longer
piettas have a slightly different shape than both the originals and even ubertis
hope ya find out what ya got
gene

I was hoping someone had an 1860 brass backstrap pistol and here you are! Good to know there are anomalies to the conventional wisdom, like when I was told Pietta didn't make a squareback 1851 Navy TG and DGW had one on a complete Pietta pistol in their 2015 catalog.

I expect that Taylor's is the only possible source of the information you want. With dozens of outfits making repros of the 1851 Navy, each slightly different, I doubt very much that anyone here can help beyond guesswork.

Jim

I ordered it using their Pietta part numbers on Taylor's website. Maybe they have a bin containing all Pietta 1851 Navy backstraps that go back to who-knows-when? And maybe it was marked with a P/N that denoted an 1851 Navy backstrap and consolidated into that bin? I dunno. Just a scientific-wild-a$$-guess on my part.

With Pietta having the wrong grip shape, who knows. I found a grip frame (possibly from a '73) of an unknown origin to correct my grip shape, to match with my Uberti. It didn't stick down like yours, but yours shows the Pietta hooked heel.

44 Dave

Yeah, somewhat. The Pietta hooked heel/"tail" is not nearly as pronounced on this backstrap as my original backstrap that matches the pictured grip; I have a grip that I purchased on EBay and the seller said it came from a 2014 [CM] Pietta, which fits my original backstrap as well or better than the original grip. This backstrap also does not have the groove/depression on the bottom rear for a shoulder stock. Anyone know when Pietta started manufacturing/selling the shoulder stock for its 1851 Navy?

The more I look at what you have sure looks to be the proper Colt shape, the blank grip is shaped to the brass of each gun so you can't inter change one part and expect every thing to fit perfectly.
Can you not just swap the trigger guard?

44 Dave

The backstrap in question fits (more than less) both the original round/oval TG and the new squareback TG, but the bottom screw hole does not even remotely align with the threaded hole in the bottom of the TG. I read a post somewhere that a Uberti backstrap hole did not quite match the Pietta but could possibly be altered a bit to allow the screw to enter the threads, but I don't see that here. Just FYI.

Switching grip frames without also installing new wood is often a problem with the Colt design. These guns have the grip wood and grip frame finished as a unit when assembled at the factory. Meaning: unfinished/oversize grip frame and unfinished grip blank are screwed to the unfinished frame. Then the whole assembly is ground down and polished to match. That is the cheapest and most efficient way to get good wood-to-metal fit with cast/unfinished parts. You can get lucky and have parts that will switch from one gun to another but not usually.

Curator

I can possibly buy that scenario if the parts business sold the backstrap/TG/grip as a complete set. Otherwise, IMHO, parts fit is a crapshoot. It has been said that, for many years now, Pietta uses CNC machining/manufacturing processes.

I think what you have there is a 51 grip frame from a Uberti, or ASM. Their grip frames tend to be more "authentic" shaped, vice, the trumpet shape of the Pietta.

You should be able to make it fit, and then, fit a new stock to the frame. You will end up with a more "authentic" 51. You can also go the easier route, and fit 2 piece grips to the frame also.

Good Luck. Rebel Dave

Don't want the 2-piece grips, but I think you are correct about the manufacturer (Uberti). (BTW how is the 1851 squareback you got from DGW?)

********

You folks have been great insofar as response and ideas. Lots of food for thought.

Thanks again!

Jim

 

[Jim K]

Note what Curator said about the originals having the grip straps and frame worked down as a unit. That is why we see small variations in the shape of the frame where it joins the backstrap. And why the original wood one-piece grips are marked with the serial number of the gun so the matched parts can be brought back together after final polish and finishing.

Jim

 

[expat_alaska]

Note what Curator said about the originals having the grip straps and frame worked down as a unit. That is why we see small variations in the shape of the frame where it joins the backstrap. And why the original wood one-piece grips are marked with the serial number of the gun so the matched parts can be brought back together after final polish and finishing.

Jim

Not sure what you mean by "original".

Pietta grips are marked with an assembly (my bold) number on the inside of the grip adjacent to the backstrap. It has no bearing nor relationship to the serial number.

My Pietta 1851 Navy steel has serial number 636005. The assembly number on the grip is 4997.

Pietta must have a computer program that links assembly numbers with serial numbers for manufacturing or numbers crunching purposes. Otherwise it makes no sense as there is no visual correlation with end product numbers.