I will be buying my first and probably only handgun for the next few years, and so I need to be damn certain that I pick the right one for me. I've been looking into this like a crazy person, and I have come down to 2 guns. The Desert Warrior and the Eclipse Custom. Both seem the same in what they have, but I'm very confused on the way Kimber words there descriptions. The DW says Match grade frame, slide, barrel, bushing and chamber...but I thought basically all Kimber's came with that, and this is what is confusing. Because on the eclipse it only stays match barrel and bushing. Also, I will be using this primarily as a CCW. Will the "bright" look of the eclipse be anything to worry about while carrying? Will someone please shed some light on this very confused soul!
Need help on Kimber's
- Thread starter VetteV12
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kashton
Member
Please do not get upset with me but my personal experiences with kimber were horriffic. I bought a Kimber Tactical Ultra II and it jammed like mad! It even stove piped a live round, so I sold it back to the dealer. I just tried out a Warrior from a store that lent it to me and it also jammed quite a bit. I would never buy a Kimber again. I own Glocks and H&Ks.
The OCPD Swat was going to have Kimbers as their sidearms, then their gunsmith checked one out. He turned Kimber down. I have heard mix stuff on them, some people love them and some don't. My friend had a Grand Raptor shot like a dream with no malfuntions, and I loved the way it shot also. Only if i was going the spend that kind of money I would spend a couple more hundred and get a Les Baer. Oh I would'nt buy a Kimber, I think there better guns out their for less money. (JMO) A custom 1911 builder told me that the Springfield TRP is the best 1911 off the shelf......... Colts, kimbers, PO, S&W's.
The Lone Haranguer
Member
I'm not "hip" on the Kimber du jour, but I can answer this. 
IMO, no. It is going to be concealed, so no one is going to see it while you are carrying anyway. If in the (hopefully) unlikely event you have to use it, you will not be "presenting" it until the last possible moment, and then it will not matter if the aggressor sees it, because you will be shooting at him anyway. In fact, the sight of it might dissuade him without your having to shoot.
IMO, no. It is going to be concealed, so no one is going to see it while you are carrying anyway. If in the (hopefully) unlikely event you have to use it, you will not be "presenting" it until the last possible moment, and then it will not matter if the aggressor sees it, because you will be shooting at him anyway. In fact, the sight of it might dissuade him without your having to shoot.
Ken Rainey
Member
If I was going to purchase a new Kimber, it'd be one without the firing pin block...I "think" the Warrior and/or Desert Warrior comes without them. I prefer the "first" series or "non series II" models of Kimbers....If you could find a used one in good shape, might look on GunsAmerica or the for sale forums...they can be found, although not that often. If the Warrior or DW comes without the additional safety added and has the internal extractor - which they've gone back too it "should" be as good as a "first" series model...
Then again, if you're gonna buy a one and only pistol and you're prepared to spend some money, you might look around for an Ed Brown, Wilson Combat or Les Baer...just a thought...I've never owned one....I'm all Kimber in the 1911 department at this time..
Then again, there's something to be said for having more than one of the same type pistol - just in case - and that's easier to do with the non "designer" brands...
Whatever you get, you "may" have to tweak the extractor and possibly replace the magazine or at least it's follower but that's just the way it is nowadays with the 1911s being put out....read "cousin" 1911Tuner's threads and posts to learn everything you need to know about the 1911 pistol and how to do it!
Then again, if you're gonna buy a one and only pistol and you're prepared to spend some money, you might look around for an Ed Brown, Wilson Combat or Les Baer...just a thought...I've never owned one....I'm all Kimber in the 1911 department at this time..
Then again, there's something to be said for having more than one of the same type pistol - just in case - and that's easier to do with the non "designer" brands...
Whatever you get, you "may" have to tweak the extractor and possibly replace the magazine or at least it's follower but that's just the way it is nowadays with the 1911s being put out....read "cousin" 1911Tuner's threads and posts to learn everything you need to know about the 1911 pistol and how to do it!
critter
Member
What Ken said. I have an older (pre-firing pin block safety) Kimber Compact stainless. It has always been 100% from day one (and I bought it used). I carry it a lot. Good gun. Very accurate too.
Good luck with your choice.
Good luck with your choice.
Steelharp
Member
I prefer auto's, I've had several Kimbers, sold them all. Not casting aspersions of any kind, but if you're only going to have ONE handgun for a while, I would strongly consider a 4" .357 revolver. It will work, every time, simple to maintain, and will take care of anything you might need it for... as long as you don't go bear hunting.
Kimber is giving my buddy the runarround on a warranty issue. The thumb safety broke off after a few hundred rounds, but is outside the 1yr warranty. Kimber will not fix it. This is why I bought a Springfield. Just food for thought.
redactor
Member
I think that the Desert Warrior does not have the firing pin block, and the Eclipse does. A lot of people deride the firing pin block on the Kimber Series II, but I can't for the life of me figure out why. It is activated off the grip safety, so it doesn't change the trigger pull, and is about the most simple device I've ever seen. Sure, it wasn't part of JMB's original design, and I know that all machines can fail no matter how simple.
You will have a lot of people tell you that safety is between the ears, not between the hands... Rubbish. It's both. I carry a Kimber Pro Carry II HD. For my money, I like to have that extra layer of security the firing pin block offers.
Another thing, is that you will read a lot of posts from people bad-mouthing Kimber. While it is possible to get a bad one, you probably won't. What you will get is a sidearm that temporarily trades out-of-the-box reliability for improved accuracy. I don't know which one of these would be more accurate, but for self-defense/home-defense, either will be accurate enough.
Out of the box, either of those pistols will be VERY tight, and will take some time to break-in. If you've never shot a .45 before, you probably will limp-wrist it a lot at first. Those two things alone will cause stoppages, and are probably the cause of %75 of Kimber trash-talk.
Resist the urge to feed it with 8-round magazines until you're sure that any unexpected kinks are worked out. In fact, resist the urge to "tinker" with it at all until you've got at least 1000 rounds down-range. It will take you that long to get used to it, and you'll enjoy that anyway.
Another thing you need to make sure of is that you clean it really well BEFORE you shoot it for the first time.
I don't think that the shiny finish of the Eclipse will hamper concealability. However, it will tend to show holster marks, scratches, and wear more easily than the DW. I've had my Pro Carry II HD for about a year and a half, and it does a good job of hiding blemishes.
You will have a lot of people tell you that safety is between the ears, not between the hands... Rubbish. It's both. I carry a Kimber Pro Carry II HD. For my money, I like to have that extra layer of security the firing pin block offers.
Another thing, is that you will read a lot of posts from people bad-mouthing Kimber. While it is possible to get a bad one, you probably won't. What you will get is a sidearm that temporarily trades out-of-the-box reliability for improved accuracy. I don't know which one of these would be more accurate, but for self-defense/home-defense, either will be accurate enough.
Out of the box, either of those pistols will be VERY tight, and will take some time to break-in. If you've never shot a .45 before, you probably will limp-wrist it a lot at first. Those two things alone will cause stoppages, and are probably the cause of %75 of Kimber trash-talk.
Resist the urge to feed it with 8-round magazines until you're sure that any unexpected kinks are worked out. In fact, resist the urge to "tinker" with it at all until you've got at least 1000 rounds down-range. It will take you that long to get used to it, and you'll enjoy that anyway.
Another thing you need to make sure of is that you clean it really well BEFORE you shoot it for the first time.
I don't think that the shiny finish of the Eclipse will hamper concealability. However, it will tend to show holster marks, scratches, and wear more easily than the DW. I've had my Pro Carry II HD for about a year and a half, and it does a good job of hiding blemishes.
I bought three Kimbers, and had to tinker with them to get them to work. First of all, none worked with their own factory magazine. With Wilson magazines, the first two Kimbers, the Classic Custom model, would not lock open when empty, so I replaced the slide stops with Wilson slide stops. They would then lock open, but not feed reliably. The solution was Metalform magazines. My third Kimber was a Stainless Gold Match; the first time I fired it rapidly enough to get it warm, the extractor bent like a banana in the wrong direction, a fundamental flaw in heat treatment, apparently. I installed an Aftec extractor. The Stainless Gold Match would ONLY work with McCormick Power Mags. I finally decided Kimbers were just too finicky, and sold them off. I know three guys who own or owned Kimbers; two are happy, one had multiple problems, and was also very unhappy with Kimber's customer service. Before anyone says I am limp-wristing, or am doing something wrong, I will say my two Colt Government Models worked just fine, my Springfield worked just fine, and my Les Baer works just fine, with any magazine I have tried in them. Kimber makes enough OK pistols to keep enough guys coming back for more, but they will get no more of my money. If I ever get another 1911, it will be Colt or Les Baer.
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Kimber is hit or miss (but mostly "hit"). Their success has affected their quality control as Kimber is swamped trying to meet the demand. Even their Custom Shop stuff can ship with major problems -I know because I have one of the 'bad' ones.
You can get 2 exact Kimbers and have one function flawlessly and another that just won't.
You can get 2 exact Kimbers and have one function flawlessly and another that just won't.
glockman19
Member
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I bought a Raptor II, Ultra Raptor II and Custom II in the last 8 months. All work flawlessly.
I think the Raptor Series is the best Custom shop gun they make. The warrior is almost identical.
I think the Raptor Series is the best Custom shop gun they make. The warrior is almost identical.
I do plan on cleaning it before I shoot it and do a very "slow" break in with about 1000 rounds. I've been shooting guns for about 8yrs now, and every one I've ever had just needed alittle TLC and worked fine. Can't say that for my buddies guns, because he just loads and unloads and expects them to keep workin fine. So to all that are bashing kimber, thank you for telling me about there problems. But the way I see it is that EVERY gun maker will and does have problematic guns out there. Just some get more publicity than others. Because until I came to this forum I've NEVER heard of a bad kimber, only time I did hear anything bad about them was just simply a mag problem. Now that I do know about some of there problems, I will take the precaution and buy from a dealer that will either replace a problematic gun or at least fix it for free.
But one question remains on my original post...The DW says Match grade frame, slide, barrel, bushing and chamber, but I thought basically all Kimber's came with that...to clarify, I'm asking if the Eclipse also come standard with the match grade frame, slide, barrel, bushing and chamber?
But one question remains on my original post...The DW says Match grade frame, slide, barrel, bushing and chamber, but I thought basically all Kimber's came with that...to clarify, I'm asking if the Eclipse also come standard with the match grade frame, slide, barrel, bushing and chamber?
Ala Dan
Member in memoriam
"Right On"
with the Les Baer TRS~! Good enough for me, and probably good enough
for you too~!
with the Les Baer TRS~!
Good enough for me, and probably good enoughfor you too~!
JDGray, why is your buddy dealing with Kimber on that thumb safety? Better to get a local 'smith to install a good aftermarket safety locally than have Kimber install another one of their inferior breakage-prone safeties. I replaced my Gold Match's bad extractor myself, feeling that with my bad experience with Kimber already, I did not want to give it back to those clowns to make it right. A 'smith I know said that Kimber makes really good frames, slides and barrels, but have trouble with the small parts, and recommended replacing the small parts with quality stuff. He said that several years ago; I don't know if anything has changed since then. Kimber struck out with me; I now spend my money elsewhere.
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I see we have fans of Les Baer here. My Thunder Ranch Special is a great pistol. One of my deepest regrets regarding firearms is that I bought two Kimber Custom Classics in 1997 in instead of one full-sized all-steel Les Baer such as a Premier II. (The TRS was not yet available.) My police agency was about to change the duty pistol policy, to all DA .40 autos, except for those other pistols we "grandfathered" by a certain closing date. I already had a Colt Government, and bought those two Kimbers, with the intention of using 1911 duty pistols for the rest of my LE career. Ah, well, hindsight is 20/20. I can use my Les Baer on my own time, but at work use a SIG .40 now.
My Thunder Ranch Special is a great pistol. One of my deepest regrets regarding firearms is that I bought two Kimber Custom Classics in 1997 in instead of one full-sized all-steel Les Baer such as a Premier II. (The TRS was not yet available.) My police agency was about to change the duty pistol policy, to all DA .40 autos, except for those other pistols we "grandfathered" by a certain closing date. I already had a Colt Government, and bought those two Kimbers, with the intention of using 1911 duty pistols for the rest of my LE career. Ah, well, hindsight is 20/20. I can use my Les Baer on my own time, but at work use a SIG .40 now.At present, I own 11 different 1911s. Springfield, Para Ordnance, Colt, Kimber, Les Baer, and Ed Brown.
I've heard, and seen that quality control has slipped on most of the production guns due to high demand.
If I was to buy my first, and only 1911, my first choice would be to have one hand built by one of the good 1911 gunsmiths. A properly fitted 1911 will be a joy to shoot, and will be able to be passed on to your grandchildren. My second choice, if I didn't want to wait for a full custom to be built would be to buy a good semi-custom from either Les Baer, or Ed Brown.
If you buy a production gun, I'd recommend taking it to a good 1911 gunsmith for a look-see, and tune up.
I've heard, and seen that quality control has slipped on most of the production guns due to high demand.
If I was to buy my first, and only 1911, my first choice would be to have one hand built by one of the good 1911 gunsmiths. A properly fitted 1911 will be a joy to shoot, and will be able to be passed on to your grandchildren. My second choice, if I didn't want to wait for a full custom to be built would be to buy a good semi-custom from either Les Baer, or Ed Brown.
If you buy a production gun, I'd recommend taking it to a good 1911 gunsmith for a look-see, and tune up.
Hawk
Member
Kimber has put out some real stinkers and some pretty nice stuff. I speak with "zero degrees of separation" on both as I have one of each.
The FPB plunger in one was rough leading to FTRTBs - preferable to breaking and shutting the thing down altogether but still not confidence-inspiring. This was the same one that saw the safety shatter like Steuben crystal when struck with a claw hammer. The shattering safety remains something of a mystery as it fell apart while I was shooting the thing - no obvious impact or anything. I believe the late Douglas Adams described such a phenomenon as "non-linear catastrophic structural exasperation" meaning that it was "fundamentally fed up with being where it was"
My dealer recently checked a Kimber Warrior and lo and behold: no type II parts. If the desert version is also free of FPB bits, I'd assume it would be an excellent way of improving one's odds.
They put out a lot of pistols so one would expect a lot a moaning. I wouldn't be too put off by it (my own included). But there's no reason not to improve your odds by omitting something that's been known to complicate issues.
The FPB plunger in one was rough leading to FTRTBs - preferable to breaking and shutting the thing down altogether but still not confidence-inspiring. This was the same one that saw the safety shatter like Steuben crystal when struck with a claw hammer. The shattering safety remains something of a mystery as it fell apart while I was shooting the thing - no obvious impact or anything. I believe the late Douglas Adams described such a phenomenon as "non-linear catastrophic structural exasperation" meaning that it was "fundamentally fed up with being where it was"
My dealer recently checked a Kimber Warrior and lo and behold: no type II parts. If the desert version is also free of FPB bits, I'd assume it would be an excellent way of improving one's odds.
They put out a lot of pistols so one would expect a lot a moaning. I wouldn't be too put off by it (my own included). But there's no reason not to improve your odds by omitting something that's been known to complicate issues.
rbernie
Contributing Member
Because sometimes, if the manufacturing tolerances are off on the chamfer of the plunger, it can intermittantly prevent the slide from returning completely to battery. That's bad juju for a defensive weapon.
I've had four (4) Kimbers. One of the four had this issue very dramatically. The others were issue free (other than the usual MIM concerns that gnawed at my soul but had no noticable effect upon the firearm's operation).
1911RjB
Member
i currently have a kimber custom 1911, the only work i have done to it is new mags, slide stop and tactical saftey, for the simple fact the origional grinded my side, when carrying it. I've had no problems with the 1000+ rounds i've put through it. i'd recommend kimber to anyone.
kashton
Member
VetteV12 -- Go to the 1911 forums and look at the Kimber section. Take a look and see if anyone complains of issues with their guns. That may give you some insight
CountGlockula
Member
Rent before you buy, is the best policy.
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