Need info for class: How easy to convert a gun to full auto?

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You need to specify whether you mean "convert a semi-auto gun so it's functionally identical to the equivalent factory full-auto gun", or whether you mean "modify something on the gun so that it may or may not fire in full-auto, but will get the BAFTE on your case".
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That is a good point, CleverNickname (and a clever nickname). The ATF, and I presume my classmates, are concerned simply that a gun can be fired in full auto at all. Reliability is irrelevant.

So, that is probably the angle my class discussion would take.
 
Sometimes semi guns can become autos due to a malfunction without the owner being aware of it. For instance if the disconector in a AR were to become worn down enough it could allow for random burst or even full auto fire. I have seen 1911s with broken sears that went full auto as well.
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This is an interesting and important point in the strict liability test the Supreme Court used in the case. My interpretation is that they held that if you are in possession of such a gun, you are not guilty of owning a non-registered machinegun.

But then the question is, say your gun does this once. Are you now in possession of a non-registered machinegun? Is there a grace period of ownership if you make an effort to get it to a gunsmith? I'll be curious to see what my prof says on that one.
 
CleverNickname makes a great point, there is a bid difference between modifying a semi-auto so that fires as a full auto is intended and modifying it so that it malfunctions in such a way that produces full-auto. This distinction isn't made by the law, but is extremely important from a safety standard.

It is my understanding that simply altering a disconnecter (such as filing it down so that seer no longer engages it) causes the weapon to fire "out of battery" such that a single trigger pull will often make the weapon fire until the magazine is empty. Often this continues even when the trigger had been disengaged. The dangers include uncontrollability, unable to stop firing until weapon is empty, and possibility of ammo destination when chamber is unsupported (kaboom).

I agree that we do not need to post information showing how to modify weapons to fire full-auto, but it always a good idea to explain the dangers related with trying to do this and why this should NEVER be attempted.

As for the legal issues, i would much rather save the money and spend the thousands of dollars to legally purchase a legal registered full-auto than to have my right to own any firearm taken away and be put in prison for illegally manufacturing an illegal full-auto weapon.
 
Converting a semiautotic firearm to fire fully automatic is one thing. Do it safely such that it won't damage the gun or injure the shooter is another. Sure a kitchen job can be done, but it's not something your average enthusiast can do.
 
I would submit that according to the LAPD Chief, none of the 40,000 firearms they confiscated in the last decade was a full auto conversion of a semi-auto weapon. Though it is possible, the full auto conversions simply are never done in real life.
 
IIRC, merely posessing the wrong collection of parts violates NFA and having certain M-16 fire control parts in an AR-15 is also illegal even if the gun operates in the semi-auto mode only.
 
Does someone here have a parts diagram for the M15 and the M16 for the lower so we can compare size of parts, number of parts and the way they are orientated?
I always thought the M16 was just one with an adjustable disconnector, I seem to be very wrong.
 
Does someone here have a parts diagram for the M15 and the M16 for the lower so we can compare size of parts, number of parts and the way they are orientated?
I always thought the M16 was just one with an adjustable disconnector, I seem to be very wrong.
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The M16 only has one extra part over the AR15 (unless your talking about M16s with a burst setting). The internal parts are all the same size and very similar in looks. The parts that vary in a M16 vs an AR15 are the hammer, trigger, selector, disconector, and bolt carrier. The AR15 also lacks the auto sear which the M16 requires for full auto fire.

I see no reason for a thread lock on this one. Nothing illegal is being discussed the OP asked a legitimate question regarding the difference between the two rifles.
 
There is a way to convert ordinary fertilizer -- the same fertilizer I use on my pasture -- to a powerful explosive. If you can't figure out how to do it, there is a book published by the United States Goverment that tells you how.

And that method was used to make the explosives that were used in the first attack against the World Trade Center (when they drove a van full of explosives into the parking facility) and to blow up the Murraugh building in Oklahoma City.

There is also a method that can be used to turn an ordinary passenger jet into a lethal cruise missle that can kill thousands of people -- that method was used on 9/11 of 2001.
 
This thread makes me so angry. I want to own something fully automatic for the pure joy of having one.

I have no criminal record... in fact, I'm more of a hermit. I like to shoot, simply put. WHY CAN'T I OWN ONE WITHOUT PAYING THOUSANDS for little pieces of worthless metal.

Freedom? Pshhh.. We need to get this changed immideitally.
 
Staples is still good law. It basically says that it isn't enough that you possess a machinegun, the government has to show that you knew what you possessed was a machinegun.

In the case of an AR15 (the rifle used in Staples), you first need M16 parts instead of AR15 parts. In the early 90s, these parts were easier to acquire without a tax stamp than they are now.

The second thing is you would need to mill out the lower receiver block if it was a Colt or some other brands. However, many modern brands do not include the receiver block because it limits what type of match triggers you can use in the rifle and the only real purpose it serves is to make an already difficult task more difficult.

Finally, you would need to drill the pin for the autosear in the proper location. As long as you have a good template, this isn't real hard; but people do make mistakes on this even with a good template.

As I recall in Staples, he had purchased the rifle from a private seller and was unaware of the modifications made to the rifle since he didn't know much about ARs. This was also pre-Internet where he could have easily determined the difference. One thing I would be curious about now is whether the knowledge requirement would be easier to prove simply by the sheer availability of firearms knowledge on the Internet. If he had visited AR15.com, could the state have argued that he should have known he had a machinegun based on some of the content there?
 
The gun in question is firing as a slam fire. it is unreliable and unsafe, it works if using hand loaded ammo because of the softer primmer.
Many years ago a company in Washington state OLY ARMS made a AR-15 that had all M-16 parts, the lower was also m-16 they just didn't include the auto sear or a hole for the pin. they also added a pin so the selector couldn't go to the full auto mode. If the pin was removed and the selector placed on auto it would go full auto because the play in the firing pin would allow the firing pin to slam into the primmer and set off the round.
In the late 70's they recalled all of their guns to replace the M-16 parts with AR-15 parts at no cost to the owner of the firearm. The state made it a felony to posses any of the parts of the M-16.
The M-16 hammer has a protrusion on its top the AR-15 dose not, the disconnecter of the M-16 has a tail, the AR-15 has no tail. The selector switch has an extra cam for auto. the trigger of the M-16 is open on the end the AR-15 has a solid back, The bolt carrier on the M-16 is also different with more metal in it.
When the selector is placed on Auto the disconnecter tail is forced down and the disconnecter hook will now miss the hook on the hammer when it comes back during cocking, when you pull the trigger the hammer goes forward hits the firing pin which hits the primmer firing the round the gas from the round along with the recoil unlocks the bolt and forces back the bolt carrier this pushes back the hammer which engages the auto sear and is held there until the bolt carrier moves forward and hits the auto sear releasing the hammer just as the bolt locks in the chamber.
Just having any one part of the M-16 internal parts is a felony even if not in a gun.
I have heard that slam firing has caused guns to self destruct on more then one case.
 
full auto .22

It is possible to convert an AR-7 (or an old Charter Explorer pistol, built on the same action) to full-auto ONLY with a Dremel tool, a piece of saw blade, and a spring from a ballpoint pen. Takes a few hours, and the resulting weapon is totally useless--and prone to frequent jams. It will also frequently fire when you chamber a round, with or without a finger on the trigger. Even if it were legal, a dumber or more dangerous weapon would be hard to imagine.

I have seen such a gun. The owner was a world-class bonehead who, with a little assistance, grew enough brains to destroy the weapon before anyone was hurt or arrested.
 
given that there is no shortage of people out there that lack good judgement (aka stupid)...

and...

that there is also no shortage of people out there who have no regard for the law or potential consequences of breaking it (drug users being a ready example)...

I can't help but think that if it was really that easy, there would be a lot of full auto's out there for the getting.

Either it's not as easy (or cheap) as some think, or legal gun owners are much more law abiding than some think. (or both)

But then again, in the world of gun grabbing politics, neither reason or truth matter much....it's all about hype, fear and exploitation of ignorance.
 
It's worth noting that you can convert an AK to full auto with nothing more than a shoelace. You can also get burst fire using a belt loop.
 
"bump firing"

On firing "full auto" via shoelace or belt loop: there's a thread around here someplace on "bump firing". Unless you do something to alter the gun for it, it's perfectly legal and does not make the weapon "full auto". It's fun for entertainment, but not particularly practical. You can't hit a barn with bump fire unless you're standing inside it.

If you're aching to burn a couple hundred bucks' worth of ammo in half an hour, it'll do that, though.
 
The ATF has claimed that a shoestring is a machine gun, but we're paranoid to worry about describing to some unknown person (no offense intended to the OP) how to convert a gun to full auto...

When everyone is out to get you, paranoia is adaptive.
 
I just still don't get how the ATF can classify an internal part of the gun a machinegun. I mean, they consider the receiver (or frame) of the firearm with the serial number to be the actual firearm (if you build a 1911, the only part you need an FFL for is the frame).

But I gave up trying to figure out how laws were made a long time ago :)
 
I saw the rubberband method on utube recently

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVfwFP_RwTQ

http://poormansmachinegun.com

The whole idea of outlawed machine guns is a joke. They aren't outlawed, just controlled by a tax stamp.

Up till fairly recently anyone could buy a brand new one, and yet they were NOT used to commit crimes in any significant number. There was no problem that needed solving, and yet they were 'controlled' in a way that eventually private ownership of them will all but disappear.
 
From the case I read, a full auto conversion sounds as simple as changing your sparkplugs, which didn't seem right to me.
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Simple? You've never tried to change the spark plugs on a modern U.S.-made car, have you? ;-)
 
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