Need load data for Alliant BE-86 with 115 CPRN

[Spurgenasty]

Do anyone have any experience using Alliant BE-86 with a Berry’s plated (not thick plated) 115gn round nose? I’ve looked in a couple load manuals but can only find data for other brands of plated round nose bullets. I’m loading for a Springfield XDM Elite OSP 4.5”. Any input or help would be greatly appreciated. I’m not new to reloading but have recently started reloading 9mm.

 

[Charlie98]

If it's the standard plated bullets, start with cast bullet data.

 

[Spurgenasty]

Thanks I had been told that and also to split the difference between cast and FMJ. Would using cast data also be a starting point for COL also?

 

[Charlie98]

Yes, because at it's heart, it's a cast bullet with a fancy dress. Find something with a similar profile and use that COAL.

You can ramp up the charge on the thicker plated bullets, but I would (I do...) still start at the bottom (cast) and work up.

 

[fxvr5]

https://www.berrysmfg.com/faq

https://reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/handgun/9mm_Luger__115_rev1.pdf

 

[Lee Q. Loader]

I use a lot of BE-86 with 125gr powder coated bullets. I load those at 4.9gr for a soft shooting load that is just enough to seal the chamber. I think 5.3 would be a good starting point for you.

 

[Spurgenasty]

https://www.berrysmfg.com/faq

https://reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/handgun/9mm_Luger__115_rev1.pdf

I’m assuming that the TMJ Speer is a coated bullet also?

 

[Spurgenasty]

I use a lot of BE-86 with 125gr powder coated bullets. I load those at 4.9gr for a soft shooting load that is just enough to seal the chamber. I think 5.3 would be a good starting point for you.

Ok thanks for the info

 

[fxvr5]

I’m assuming that the TMJ Speer is a coated bullet also?

It is copper plated as are Berry's.

"Coated" is now a term most often applied to a polymer (plastic?) coated lead/cast bullets.

 

[Lee Q. Loader]

It is copper plated as are Berry's.

"Coated" is now a term most often applied to a polymer (plastic?) coated lead/cast bullets.

TMJ stands for Total Metal Jacket. These are fully jacketed bullets, meaning that even the base is covered by a jacket.

https://www.speer.com/bullets/handgun_bullets/tmj_handgun_bullet/19-3995.html

 

[Spurgenasty]

It is copper plated as are Berry's.

"Coated" is now a term most often applied to a polymer (plastic?) coated lead/cast bullets.

Yeah coated was a bad choice of words I guess

 

[Charlie98]

I’m assuming that the TMJ Speer is a coated bullet also?

Speer calls their plated bullets CPRN... copper-plated round nose, I think the TMJ's are actual jacketed bullets with a base plug.... so they would be two different bullets. Speer likely uses the same data set for them, but just so you are aware.

Edit: Not trying to be a word Nazi, but I have recently learned the differences, too, and they have some differences with loading as well.

 

[fxvr5]

Speer calls their plated bullets CPRN... copper-plated round nose, I think the TMJ's are actual jacketed bullets with a base plug.... so they would be two different bullets. Speer likely uses the same data set for them, but just so you are aware.

Edit: Not trying to be a word Nazi, but I have recently learned the differences, too, and they have some differences with loading as well.

No, they are not jacketed with a base plug. Speer's TMJ bullets are electroplated, i.e. a simple plated bullet.

 

[Walkalong]

Yep, the Speer TMJ is a plated bullet. Hornady used to make "encapsulated" (Their term) jacketed bullets with a disc of copper on the base.

 

[Walkalong]

From the Berrys FAQ @fxvr5 linked to.

Where can I find load data for your bullets?
Load data from any load manual or website can be used. Full-metal jacketed, lead bullet, or plated bullet load data can be used as long as the following standards are adhered to:

Standard Plate Bullets Max Velocity: 1,250 fps

Your not going to push them hard enough to hurt them if you stay below 1200 FPS from your 4.5" XDm.

Some starting lead data is too low for plated bullets and can even stick a bullet in the barrel.

 

[Spurgenasty]

Thanks for all the info!! No wonder why all the data is so different with all these kinds of bullets. I emailed Alliant and they said the have no load data for Berrys to ask Berrys. Berry said (like the previous post) as long as I stay below 1200fps I should be fine. Alliant does have load data using speer CPRN though. I’m going with that as a starting point.

 

[lordpaxman]

Welcome to THR! You’ve gotten a lot of good advice.

No wonder why all the data is so different with all these kinds of bullets.

I load a lot of different 9mm bullets with different powders and can tell you more often than not there’s no published data for those specific combinations.
Try to find a similar weight, length, and similar technology, and if you can more than one reference. The testing setup from these will also vary so the data won’t be the same but you’ll get a range of values.
9mm is a high pressure round and COL is one of the more critical aspects, which will relate to load density. When I first started loading Rainiers, similar to Berry’s, I started at the min cast numbers and stuck a few. Nowadays there’s more load data like the Speer for CPRN and some Berrys , but if there’s no data for plated I’ll start at min jacketed rather than cast.
Now you just have to purchase some coated bullets and we do this all again. Good luck.

 

[Charlie98]

From Speer's ad copy... my emphasis added.

Unlike conventional FMJ bullets that leave lead exposed at the base, Speer® TMJ® uses Uni-Cor® technology to completely encase the lead core in a seamless jacket. It’s cleaner, more accurate and more consistent than any FMJ.

• Uni-Cor technology completely encases the lead core in a seamless jacket
• Design eliminates the accuracy-robbing features of conventional full metal jacket bullets

No, they are not jacketed with a base plug. Speer's TMJ bullets are electroplated, i.e. a simple plated bullet.

Yep, the Speer TMJ is a plated bullet. Hornady used to make "encapsulated" (Their term) jacketed bullets with a disc of copper on the base.

The base plug Hornady version might be what I was thinking of... but you can see their description is a bit misleading. Further, they still list both the CPRN and the TMJ bullet on their product page... so I'm guessing there is a difference somewhere.

 

[Walkalong]

Misleading marketing? Say it aint so.

In their defense, by all accounts the plating is thick.

 

[Spurgenasty]

Welcome to THR! You’ve gotten a lot of good advice.

I load a lot of different 9mm bullets with different powders and can tell you more often than not there’s no published data for those specific combinations.
Try to find a similar weight, length, and similar technology, and if you can more than one reference. The testing setup from these will also vary so the data won’t be the same but you’ll get a range of values.
9mm is a high pressure round and COL is one of the more critical aspects, which will relate to load density. When I first started loading Rainiers, similar to Berry’s, I started at the min cast numbers and stuck a few. Nowadays there’s more load data like the Speer for CPRN and some Berrys , but if there’s no data for plated I’ll start at min jacketed rather than cast.
Now you just have to purchase some coated bullets and we do this all again. Good luck.

Yeah I agree with what your saying here. I’ve figured out the powder charge range I’m going to start with. The thing I’m still somewhat unsure about the COL. in the Alliant data they have Speer 115gn CPRN COL at 1.135 and the 115gn FMJ (and most everything else) at 1.12. Berry website as long as I stay below 1250fps I should be fine but gives no COL . Any thoughts? Oh and I’ve already purchased the 115gn RN standard plate Berrys bullet. I think after this experience I’ll stick with FMJ ‍

 

[Alliant Reloading]

Speer markets two types of plated pistol bullets, the TMJ(R) and CPRN and/or CPFP (profile depends on the caliber). The two types are pretty different after the fact that they are both copper plated onto a lead core. The TMJ is quite good quality, with a heavy copper coating. The CP bullets are a thinner plate designed for budget minded shooters. You should not expect the same performance from the two lines.
We worked up load data for the CPRN/CPFP separately, which we felt was appropriate. I'm sure you realize our 6.3gr charge is max for the CPRN at 1.130" COAL, so reduce 10% and work up from there if you choose to use this data for the Berry's bullet. Alternatively, you could use the Speer max of 6.2gr of the TMJ (at 1.135" COAL). In either case, you need to check that that COAL profiles in your chamber. Our loads profiled in our gauges and SAAMI min chambers, but plunk your barrel before you get too far along. https://reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/handgun/9mm_Luger__115_rev1.pdf
I am happy you obtained the data you were looking for Spurgenasty, and welcome to the forum.
Shoot well,
Paul

 

[lordpaxman]

As @Alliant Reloading pointed out, if your barrel/magazine for the intended gun(s) can handle 1.130”, that’d be a good starting point. My stable dictates 1.120” for these bullets so I definitely start at mins and work up. I use a chrono so I can start long and shorten at small increments. I don’t have BE-86 data yet, that pound is still sitting in primer jail waiting to get out. I usually run the faster powders with Sport Pistol being probably the slowest. Let us know how you do, range reports are always welcome.

 

[Charlie98]

The CP bullets are a thinner plate designed for budget minded shooters.

I went through a box of .45 CPRN bullets, I was NOT impressed with them. Yea, they flew out of the barrel, and poked holes in paper... so there is that.

 

[Spurgenasty]

Speer markets two types of plated pistol bullets, the TMJ(R) and CPRN and/or CPFP (profile depends on the caliber). The two types are pretty different after the fact that they are both copper plated onto a lead core. The TMJ is quite good quality, with a heavy copper coating. The CP bullets are a thinner plate designed for budget minded shooters. You should not expect the same performance from the two lines.
We worked up load data for the CPRN/CPFP separately, which we felt was appropriate. I'm sure you realize our 6.3gr charge is max for the CPRN at 1.130" COAL, so reduce 10% and work up from there if you choose to use this data for the Berry's bullet. Alternatively, you could use the Speer max of 6.2gr of the TMJ (at 1.135" COAL). In either case, you need to check that that COAL profiles in your chamber. Our loads profiled in our gauges and SAAMI min chambers, but plunk your barrel before you get too far along. https://reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/handgun/9mm_Luger__115_rev1.pdf
I am happy you obtained the data you were looking for Spurgenasty, and welcome to the forum.
Shoot well,
Paul

Absolutely!! Thanks for the input. I will definitely do the plunk test. I have loaded with a COL similar to the 1.135 before with this gun so I’m confident it will work. I still, of course, will test first though.

 

[Spurgenasty]

As @Alliant Reloading pointed out, if your barrel/magazine for the intended gun(s) can handle 1.130”, that’d be a good starting point. My stable dictates 1.120” for these bullets so I definitely start at mins and work up. I use a chrono so I can start long and shorten at small increments. I don’t have BE-86 data yet, that pound is still sitting in primer jail waiting to get out. I usually run the faster powders with Sport Pistol being probably the slowest. Let us know how you do, range reports are always welcome.

I will definitely post my range data. Hoping to get out there this weekend. I also use a chrono.