Mr. Loud Guns
member
Can anyone out there recomend some 30/06 subsonic ammo. I want to "reduce" the amount of noise my 30/06 creates so it doesn't annoy people so much in competitions. 
Need some 30/06 subsonic ammo
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P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
None that I personally know of - this smacks of reloading only.
But also it means a very reduced charge to get sub 1100 fps, if you mean true sub sonic. That is a big case and downloading to that level ain't IMO at all easy or even safe.
We'll see what other folks say but this won't be easy I reckon.
I load for lead cast bullets for .308 and .303 now and again - and even using SR 4759 which bulks very well - I am still up at around 1900 fps and would not want to go much lower.
But also it means a very reduced charge to get sub 1100 fps, if you mean true sub sonic. That is a big case and downloading to that level ain't IMO at all easy or even safe.
We'll see what other folks say but this won't be easy I reckon.
I load for lead cast bullets for .308 and .303 now and again - and even using SR 4759 which bulks very well - I am still up at around 1900 fps and would not want to go much lower.
The Bushmaster
Member
No!!! Absolutely not!!! I doubt that it would make any difference anyway.
Light loads would be a handload item only.
I load light small game loads for various rifles, usually a medium to light weight bullet @ around 1200 to 1500 fps. They are much more pleasant to shoot, and make much less noise. They are not very good for long range, 75 to 100 yards for hunting, maybe more, but trajectory will be far less flat. They are about in the 32-20 power range. Good small game and grouse killers. Don't waste meat like full power loads. They should only be loaded with certain powders in certain load levels. Using regular rifle powder and just reducing the load can cause very serious problems. Do some research if you want to pursue this. It isn't something I'd accept average internet forum advice on until you have a good working knowledge of what is involved. Consult reloading manuals, several. Using the wrong powder for reduced loads can destroy a rifle, and I dont mean figurativley, I mean litterally destroy the gun. Kaboom! Exploded. Large and small parts in various places around the range, with similar results with the shooter a times. This may be more annoying to other shooters than regular power loads.
So, if wanting to avoid annoying the other match shooters, will everyone be using light loads? If you are the only one using light loads, there won't be much improvement in noise level at a match. I wouldnt worry about the other shooters.
I load light small game loads for various rifles, usually a medium to light weight bullet @ around 1200 to 1500 fps. They are much more pleasant to shoot, and make much less noise. They are not very good for long range, 75 to 100 yards for hunting, maybe more, but trajectory will be far less flat. They are about in the 32-20 power range. Good small game and grouse killers. Don't waste meat like full power loads. They should only be loaded with certain powders in certain load levels. Using regular rifle powder and just reducing the load can cause very serious problems. Do some research if you want to pursue this. It isn't something I'd accept average internet forum advice on until you have a good working knowledge of what is involved. Consult reloading manuals, several. Using the wrong powder for reduced loads can destroy a rifle, and I dont mean figurativley, I mean litterally destroy the gun. Kaboom! Exploded. Large and small parts in various places around the range, with similar results with the shooter a times. This may be more annoying to other shooters than regular power loads.
So, if wanting to avoid annoying the other match shooters, will everyone be using light loads? If you are the only one using light loads, there won't be much improvement in noise level at a match. I wouldnt worry about the other shooters.
I am curious as to what type of competitions you are in? If you are competing against .22 rimfire there may be a large noise difference. But in any centerfire shoots they all are loud, and if the other centerfire boys are complaining about the noise from a 30.06 give them some foam ear plugs to wear under their earphones ( if they are wearing any). I have always wondered about people that complain about noise at a shooting range, get real and wear a good pair of ear protection. I always have a handful of foam ear plugs to hand out to any spectators , so they can enjoy without hearing damage.
bogie
Member
Last month in an unlimited benchrest match, I was right next to a fellow with a 6/284.
Kinda sorta overbore, at least in theory.
I don't think I even noticed him. At least not anymore than I would have someone shooting a normal 6PPC...
Kinda sorta overbore, at least in theory.
I don't think I even noticed him. At least not anymore than I would have someone shooting a normal 6PPC...
Mr. Loud Guns
member
Yeah I usually shoot against people using 22 and .223. I could just use one of my "evil black rifles" but my 30/06 is far more accurate. I don't know anything about reloading so if anyone can reccomend something that is premade 
. If not I may not pursue this because of the danger of the bullet getting stuck in the bore.
. If not I may not pursue this because of the danger of the bullet getting stuck in the bore.You won`t find anything from the factory sub sonic in 30-06 that I know of. I have to agree with the others, why worry about noise? The guys shooting the 223s are likely as loud as your `06 so you aren`t adding any more volume to the din just another report.
If the competitions allow the rifle I would not care about the noise, the recoil might be a bit much after a few rounds but noise shouldn`t be one of your worries. Target shooting is mostly a mental game (like golf) and if you can rattle the other guy (loud, disturbing noises from rifles are usually legal in the rifle sports) he won`t be as hard to beat.
If the competitions allow the rifle I would not care about the noise, the recoil might be a bit much after a few rounds but noise shouldn`t be one of your worries. Target shooting is mostly a mental game (like golf) and if you can rattle the other guy (loud, disturbing noises from rifles are usually legal in the rifle sports) he won`t be as hard to beat.
Maybe this will be the best you can buy off the rack.
http://www.remington.com/ammo/centerfire/managed_recoil.htm
If you can find someone to handload for you, here is a site with a host of info on redeuced loads. Do a search for "Blue Dot".
http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/ubb.x/a/frm/f/2511043
http://www.remington.com/ammo/centerfire/managed_recoil.htm
If you can find someone to handload for you, here is a site with a host of info on redeuced loads. Do a search for "Blue Dot".
http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/ubb.x/a/frm/f/2511043
eurohacker
member
- Joined
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If you put a suppressor on such a rifle and use subsonic ammo, how quiet will it be?
P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
If true sub-sonic - then a suppressor will perform very well. Not as quiet as a .22 with can but still - very muted sound. Certainly no ''bang''. And if bullet sub-sonic then of course no sonic bullet ''crack''.
I still think tho loading down to this extreme is not either going to be easy, that useful or even totally safe. Very lightly loaded bottleneck cases have apparently behaved at times very oddly! I have never gone that low so no first hand experience.
I still think tho loading down to this extreme is not either going to be easy, that useful or even totally safe. Very lightly loaded bottleneck cases have apparently behaved at times very oddly! I have never gone that low so no first hand experience.
grendelbane
Member
Sub-sonic loads for center-fire rifles require tuning to the individual rifle.
I have loaded some round ball loads in .308, and air rifle pellets in .223.
http://guns.connect.fi/gow/arcane1.html
This link will show you some of the problems involved.
I have loaded some round ball loads in .308, and air rifle pellets in .223.
http://guns.connect.fi/gow/arcane1.html
This link will show you some of the problems involved.
I agree with P95Carry that trying to load the .30-06 to less than sonic level which means less than 1140-1160 fps depending on altitude, temperature, humidity, etc. would be very hard and possibly even dangerous! Believe you would also lose the accuracy at such reduced velocity. I once loaded cast ammo for the .30-06 and my cast loads were around 1800+ fps (didn't have personal chronographs in those days). If your gun is too loud, that sounds like a "valid reason for another rifle", possibly .223 caliber.
Good shooting and be safe.
LB
Good shooting and be safe.
LB
My experience is that most reduced loads shoot ragged one hole groups or under one inch groups for me at around 25 to 30 yards. Some others will be a bit less accurate, but not by a lot. Haven't shot them much on paper past that range.
yeah
I have been intensely interested in subsonic rifle loads for a long time now.
You have 2 basic options to pursue: heavy (usually soft lead) for caliber projectiles and very reduced powder charges; or
itsy-bitsy little projectiles (pistol projectiles in rifles, or else buckshot, etc) and very very very reduced loads- sometimes primers only.
BTW: you will get all this off of the arcane site mentioned above. i have found a few other references, and if i get them all in one place i will happily share them.
For the smalll projectile loads: One option, a sort of cheat method, is to use a cartridge adapter/chamber insert. They come in various configurations but allow fo rexample a 32ACP to be loaded one-at-a-time into 308 or 30-06 chambers and fired. These are subsonic rounds. The 32-ACP-30-06 uses a same caliber projectile so the accuracy is pretty good. Some use sub-caliber projectiles, mostly allowing 22LR (or, what i use most 22 Subsonics or even colibris) to be used in larger bores: 30-cals, 45 colt, and all the way up to 22-in-12ga shotgun. But these may not be what you want.
I know what I want REALLY is actual subsonic rifle loads. So...
well, heres one of the 'use at your own risk' ones i found for 8mm mauser:
Bullet Weight : 125
Bullet Type : Cut down Lee mold, cast wheelweight
Bullet Diameter : 323
Powder Manufacture : allient?
Powder Type : Unique
Powder Weight (Grains) : 5
Primer Manufacture : any
Primer Type : any
Brass Manufacture : reformed 30-06
Velocity : 925- 1025
Notes : Very smokey, fairly accurite, light recoil. I stuff some dacron cushion stuffing in to keep powder against primer. BTW 30 inch Turk barrel.
Contributor : Alex
E-Mail : [email protected]
I have some more info on another file- can't get to it now. I'll post back Monday sometime.
But not alot of folks have worked these up. I even spoke with folks from other countries who offered suggestions, but cant export ammo to us hre. BTW: Quality Cartridge will work up a load for you, but you have to order a few hundred bucks worth for him to do it.
One last intriguing tidbit: In my search for the elusive 8mm Mauser Nahpatrone, which uses the mystical Platzpulver 33 blank powder (supposedly similar to VV N310) I came up with these Prvi Partisan M69 blanks:
http://www.prvipartizan.com/products/millitary/small_arms/79x57_ammo.htm
actually, OLD Western Scrounger sells some! Here: http://www.ows-ammunition.com/cgi-b...3233x4572&session=42d0820711dc9851&L=eng&M=18 , item 8889b
Now these blanks are not quiet, they are designed to cycle machine guns. But, maybe the powder has the desireable characteristics?
I dunno.
This is a work in progress fo rme, too.
C-
I have been intensely interested in subsonic rifle loads for a long time now.
You have 2 basic options to pursue: heavy (usually soft lead) for caliber projectiles and very reduced powder charges; or
itsy-bitsy little projectiles (pistol projectiles in rifles, or else buckshot, etc) and very very very reduced loads- sometimes primers only.
BTW: you will get all this off of the arcane site mentioned above. i have found a few other references, and if i get them all in one place i will happily share them.
For the smalll projectile loads: One option, a sort of cheat method, is to use a cartridge adapter/chamber insert. They come in various configurations but allow fo rexample a 32ACP to be loaded one-at-a-time into 308 or 30-06 chambers and fired. These are subsonic rounds. The 32-ACP-30-06 uses a same caliber projectile so the accuracy is pretty good. Some use sub-caliber projectiles, mostly allowing 22LR (or, what i use most 22 Subsonics or even colibris) to be used in larger bores: 30-cals, 45 colt, and all the way up to 22-in-12ga shotgun. But these may not be what you want.
I know what I want REALLY is actual subsonic rifle loads. So...
well, heres one of the 'use at your own risk' ones i found for 8mm mauser:
Bullet Weight : 125
Bullet Type : Cut down Lee mold, cast wheelweight
Bullet Diameter : 323
Powder Manufacture : allient?
Powder Type : Unique
Powder Weight (Grains) : 5
Primer Manufacture : any
Primer Type : any
Brass Manufacture : reformed 30-06
Velocity : 925- 1025
Notes : Very smokey, fairly accurite, light recoil. I stuff some dacron cushion stuffing in to keep powder against primer. BTW 30 inch Turk barrel.
Contributor : Alex
E-Mail : [email protected]
I have some more info on another file- can't get to it now. I'll post back Monday sometime.
But not alot of folks have worked these up. I even spoke with folks from other countries who offered suggestions, but cant export ammo to us hre. BTW: Quality Cartridge will work up a load for you, but you have to order a few hundred bucks worth for him to do it.
One last intriguing tidbit: In my search for the elusive 8mm Mauser Nahpatrone, which uses the mystical Platzpulver 33 blank powder (supposedly similar to VV N310) I came up with these Prvi Partisan M69 blanks:
http://www.prvipartizan.com/products/millitary/small_arms/79x57_ammo.htm
actually, OLD Western Scrounger sells some! Here: http://www.ows-ammunition.com/cgi-b...3233x4572&session=42d0820711dc9851&L=eng&M=18 , item 8889b
Now these blanks are not quiet, they are designed to cycle machine guns. But, maybe the powder has the desireable characteristics?
I dunno.
This is a work in progress fo rme, too.
C-
Speed of Sound
AHA! There is my "missing" post on speed of sound. Did some research on the net and found a formula for speed of sound. Result of calculations at various temp's:
80 degrees (F) = 1140 fps
90 degrees (F) = 1151 fps
100 degrees (F) = 1162 fps
For more info see thread:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=146440
Good shooting and be safe.
LB
AHA! There is my "missing" post on speed of sound. Did some research on the net and found a formula for speed of sound. Result of calculations at various temp's:
80 degrees (F) = 1140 fps
90 degrees (F) = 1151 fps
100 degrees (F) = 1162 fps
For more info see thread:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=146440
Good shooting and be safe.
LB
P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
IIRC these figures would be calculated for sea level? I forget the conversion for every 1,000 feet extra above but it does change the result. I think the less dense the air, then the higher the speed goes before crossing threshold.
1100 fps appears to be a safe lower target level to ensure being below.
1100 fps appears to be a safe lower target level to ensure being below.
The Bushmaster
Member
LHB1...There must be an echo in here. Glad you found the missing post. I know just how it feels when you can't find one that you posted. Then you have to rewrite it and try to remember those all important words that you used in the lost post.
"Can anyone out there recomend some 30/06 subsonic ammo. I want to "reduce" the amount of noise my 30/06 creates so it doesn't annoy people so much in competitions."
Thinking about this more, the specifics of subsonic and supersonic are good for consideration for suppressed weapons, but the intent of the original; post does not actually require subsonic loads to achieve what he wants. Just reduced muzzle blast will achieve the desired result, and supersonic loads can still be substantially less noisy than full power 30-06 loads, without as much penalty in terms of trajectory. 30-06 loads that are in the 30-30 power range, when fired in 22 to 24" barrels, will have much less muzzle blast. The new "controlled recoil" type loads put out by some of the ammunition companies will do some of the same thing.
Thinking about this more, the specifics of subsonic and supersonic are good for consideration for suppressed weapons, but the intent of the original; post does not actually require subsonic loads to achieve what he wants. Just reduced muzzle blast will achieve the desired result, and supersonic loads can still be substantially less noisy than full power 30-06 loads, without as much penalty in terms of trajectory. 30-06 loads that are in the 30-30 power range, when fired in 22 to 24" barrels, will have much less muzzle blast. The new "controlled recoil" type loads put out by some of the ammunition companies will do some of the same thing.
found it
I found my collection of data. its a mixed up hodgepodge of data, calibers, loads, and info from several sources.
Its kinda long, so i will be happy to email it to anyone who wants it.
I also know I have alot of info handwritten somewhere.
When i find that, I will type it in and offr it up for what its worth as well.
(BTW: none of this is worht too darn much!)
C-
I found my collection of data. its a mixed up hodgepodge of data, calibers, loads, and info from several sources.
Its kinda long, so i will be happy to email it to anyone who wants it.
I also know I have alot of info handwritten somewhere.
When i find that, I will type it in and offr it up for what its worth as well.
(BTW: none of this is worht too darn much!)
C-
cracked butt
Member
Tr a 200 gr. cast bullet with 15 gr of 2400 behind it. Its not quite subsonic, but its pretty quiet, actually quieter than the .22 rifles that I shoot.
pcf
Member
The Lyman #48 manual list a 210gr cast bullet with IMR SR7625 @ 1242fps out of a 24 inch barrel
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