Need some input on a new rifle

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jmr40 said:
I've owned 338-06 and 35 Whelen in the past and came to the conclusion a 30-06 loaded with bullets on the heavier end does everything better. Shooting the same bullet weights through a larger bore with similar powder charges will result in faster MV so the 338-06 and 35 Whelen look better at the muzzle. You can kill an elk with a 30-30 at the muzzle, it is down range where you need power.
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You about have me convinced to just go with the 30-06 with this. I know it's not much different than my 270, but when comparing the heavies for caliber in an '06 compared to my 140 gr. load in the 270, it seems like a pretty big difference.
 
magnatecman said:
Yes I know that my 270 is adequate for my needs, It has already proven that for the past 30 years. I have a 1/2 moa load with 140 gr. Berger's that has taken several elk out to 571 yards according to my range finder. I have shot steel with it out to 700 yards just for fun.

But now that it's been compared to a chevy I REALLY want something different. :rofl:
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Different is good! Good luck with your venture!!!
 
Has anyone tried the Hornady 212 gr. ELD-X out of the 30-06? I would be very interested in hearing about that, load data and what not.
 
I have a .35 Whelen. With 250 grain bullets it shoots fair tight and controllable. Your comment about 'range' puzzles me. How far do you think you will be shooting an elk? I submit the average shot for elk is less than two hundred yards. .35 Whelen is not abusive in recoil, but I have a moderately heavy rifle.
 
30 years later I have an itch for something new. I have always felt my .270 was perfect for my needs and has in fact served me well all these years. In fact it will continue to be my go to deer rifle. So this new rifle will be more for elk than anything else. A couple of deciding factors for me are that it needs to be and elk killer capable caliber out to at least 500 yards. I'm not into the extreme long range hunting thing, and want to keep it in what I consider moderate range. Most of my shots on game are inside of 200 yards, but at times 500-600 has happened.
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I'm not a fan of recoil, but not a wimp either. I have a preference for non-magnum calibers(4 or 5 rounds in the mag).
The calibers I am interested in are : 338-06, 8mm-06,30-06, 35 Whelen (but probably not long range enough), 300 or 325 Wsm's (but magnums aren't my thing).Perhaps 338 or 300 RCM's would be good too. Shorter, handier rifles are more useful to me and my style of hunting.
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You already have a good rifle for the job, your 270. The 30/06 might be a little better for Elk but the 270 shoots flatter so it's close to being a wash... The same goes for the 338/06 and 35 Whelen only more so, they're great for short and moderate range but not for long... For a guy that says he doesn't hunt at long range it sounds like you do..

So, you want a rifle that is larger than the 270, doesn't kick too heavily, is powerful enough and shoots flat enough to take Elk out to 600 yards and isn't a magnum.... ?????? Well, it sounds like you might be asking for too much and might need to reevaluate which attributes are really the most important to you... I would say that from the criteria that you mentioned the cartridges that come the closest but don't really meet all of the prerequisites are: 270 Win (which you have), 30/06 and one of the 300 mags.... All are close but none can match all of your requirements. The 270 isn't as large a caliber as you want, the 30/06 doesn't shoot quite as flat as as your 270 and the 300's kick more and are magnums which you don't want... The 338/06 and 35 Whelen are good but don't meet your range requirements... Sure they'll kill an Elk at long range but don't shoot flat enough to facilitate the shot... The 6.5 PRC isn't any better than your 270...
 
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Archie said:
I have a .35 Whelen. With 250 grain bullets it shoots fair tight and controllable. Your comment about 'range' puzzles me. How far do you think you will be shooting an elk? I submit the average shot for elk is less than two hundred yards. .35 Whelen is not abusive in recoil, but I have a moderately heavy rifle.
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The comment about range and the 35 Whelen are just that I feel it won't give me enough of it, but I have no experience with it either so idk? What do you consider it's effective range? How much more range does the 338-06 give you? Like was mentioned earlier in this thread, I have and do have a need to shoot out to 500 yards at times.
 
Bushpilot said:
For a guy that says he doesn't hunt at long range it sounds like you do..

I guess, but I don't consider 500 yards to be long range shooting.

So, you want a rifle that is larger than the 270, doesn't kick too heavily, is powerful enough and shoots flat enough to take Elk out to 600 yards and isn't a magnum.... ?????? Well, it sounds like you might be asking for too much and might need to reevaluate which attributes are reallythe most important to you...

I agree with this statement and realize that I am looking for something that may not exist, but what is the next best thing?
Perhaps a faster twist 270 lobbing 170grain ?The Flat shooting part can be overcome to some degree with a range finder and adjustable turrets calibrated to the given load.

I would say that from the criteria that you mentioned the cartridges that come the closest but don't really meet all of the prerequisites are: 270 Win (which you have), 30/06 and one of the 300 mags.... All are close but none can match all of your requirements. The 270 isn't as large a caliber as you want, the 30/06 doesn't shoot quite as flat as as your 270 and the 300's kick more and are magnums which you don't want... The 338/06 and 35 Whelen are good but don't meet your range requirements... Sure they'll kill an Elk at long range but don't shoot flat enough to facilitate the shot... The 6.5 PRC isn't any better than your 270...
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I am good with giving up some of these attributes, I can for instance handle more recoil, or even accept a magnum, I'm just trying to see if there is something out there that gets me close to what I'm after without giving up too much.
 
I am good with giving up some of these attributes, I can for instance handle more recoil, or even accept a magnum, I'm just trying to see if there is something out there that gets me close to what I'm after without giving up too much.
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I would think one of either the 300 mags or the 7 mags would be you're best option then. I forgot to mention the 7 mags earlier, they're not significantly larger in diameter but would still be a good choice.

I'm not into the extreme long range hunting thing, and want to keep it in what I consider moderate range. Most of my shots on game are inside of 200 yards, but at times 500-600 has happened.
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I guess, but I don't consider 500 yards to be long range shooting.
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In post #32 You mistakenly quoted me quoting you... I think 500 yards IS a very long shot on game, probably too long for most. If 500 yards is not "long range" what would you consider it? 500 yards is far enough that a 15 MPH crosswind at that range can turn a shot at an Elk's vitals into a clean miss or a gut shot when standing broadside. A ranging error of 100 yards becomes either a miss over the shoulder or a broken leg.

If you're using a modern scoped rifle/cartridge and shooting at distances far enough away that you can't reliably make the first shot on a big game animal without a range finder that's long range shooting IMO. Those 500 and 600 yard shots don't just "happen," you choose them. Choose wisely..
 
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magnatecman said:
Has anyone tried the Hornady 212 gr. ELD-X out of the 30-06? I would be very interested in hearing about that, load data and what not.
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I've shot the 208 Eld-m from my 30-06 B-14, but not the 212s. I was scratching 2600 with the 208s and 7828, so more velocity should be possible with other powders.
Accuracy was good.

My favorite rifle which is now out of production is the Browning Abolt 2, of whats currently offered i really like the Bergara B-14s.
I also really like the Howa1500 and Why Vanguard's.
They are new/random enough, I've never seen one of those Sauers irl, but they do look nice.
I honestly haven't liked the Sakos since the AV, and I'm not really sure why.
(EDIT: sorry typed that previously on my phone...that was painful to read, had to fix it ish)

Personally I'd suggest the .30-06, 7mm mag, or perhaps a properly fitted .338WM. you want random and AWSOME!!! the .358 Norma deserves a look.

Just a side note. I'm begnning to find that a properly fitted stock with a squishy pad, does more to attenuate recoil than I had previously thought.
I just finished building a .375 Ruger, and it's the first rifle that I've specifically fit to me. Most of the time I leave stocks an inch short so other people can shoot the guns as well.
My .375 weights 8lbs 6oz, launches 270s at 2850, and delivers 40lbs + of reoil energy.
I'll happily shoot that gun, where as the last store bought 300 I could only comfortably shoot 10-15 shots because.of how short the stock was.
 
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I've got both 300 Win Mag and 300 WSM. The 300 Win Mag is becoming more popular for long range shooting it would appear. Here, this Win Mag is new to me and a work in progress. The 300 WSM also a winner if you are after a magnum. My current 300 WSM is a Browning A bolt stainless. There were two others before the Browning. It's possible to get a relatively light rifle with more than enough horsepower. I'd suggest you not let go of your current 270. What ever you decide to get you'll have a dependable back-up rifle.
 
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I agree what you guys are saying with regards to wind and shooting longer distances. I've experienced it myself at 700 yards on my steel target enough to know I won't be taking that shot on game. Truthfully, I did begin to embrace the notion of long range hunting, if you want to call it that. But quickly realized it's not for me. I'm talking of guys shooting game at 800-1200 yards, which is truly long range shooting in my mind.

I actually enjoy hunting with my muzzle loader more than rifle hunting, because of the closeness to the game that comes with it.

The more I think on this subject and what rifle I want the more I'm leaning towards something of a medium bore. I still don't really want a magnum so I'm thinking I would be happier giving up on my desired range and allow for a limit of say 350 yards or so. Still thinking 338-06 or possibly even 338 Fed?

And yes, the 270 isn't going anywhere !
 
No to 338 Fed. Yes to 338-06.

The 30-06 doesn’t have the punch to handle the 212’s effectively, and often doesn’t have the right twist needed. The 30-06 really shines with the 165-180’s, and struggles to manage the 200’s in conventional 22-24” barrels. I shot a bunch of the 200 and 208 ELD’s to try them out last year and the fall before. Performance was lackluster, at best, and contacting Hornady, the velocity wasn’t where it needed to be for expansion on game. I bought into the hype of the .30-06 about 25yrs ago; guys claimed it was super-versatile because bullets were available from 110 grains up to 220... in practice, it sucks at either end of the spectrum.

The 338-06 has the same limitation of powder capacity, but the bullets are typically more appropriately constructed and the barrels properly twisted. It can’t handle the biggest 33 cal bullets for super long range work - those really meant for the 338 Lap - but it shines with the 225 class pills.

The 338 Fed is a really fun round, but it certainly doesn’t have the horsepower to handle heavy bullets and reach mid-range (your 500yrd mark). My use for the .338Fed is centered around a 16-18” bolt gun - a hard hitting, fast handling brush hammer. Not a mid range elk rifle.
 
Guys go about choosing a caliber exactly backwards. They pick a cartridge, then try to figure which bullet.

“I’ve got a 30-06, 270, 243, etc. What’s the best bullet for......”

Probably should first take laws of physics into effect, then work backwards. Suppose you want a bullet that stays supersonic to 1,000 yards or has a certain level of retained energy. That requires a given B.C. Which requires a specific twist rate and bore size unless you don’t care about recoil. Which also requires a minimum amount of powder to give adequate velocity.

You can change shoulder angle 1/2 a degree, make the case a little different, change the name on 5he head stamp. In 5he end, it matters little or not at all.
 
I don't think the 338-06 or 35 Whelen were intended for 500 yard shooting. I would not consider anything along those lines for the kind of shooting the OP had in mind. Personally, my suggestion would be nothing any larger than a thirty caliber in the usual '06 based rounds.. I have had a built up 338-06 (03A3 Springfield based) and got not one but two 35 Whelens now (build up Mauser and a modified Model 70 Winchester) . I do have some reloading experience reloading these two. Great cartridges. Personally, using these rounds further than 200 yards lacks sportsmanship.
 
I don't think the 338-06 or 35 Whelen were intended for 500 yard shooting. I would not consider anything along those lines for the kind of shooting the OP had in mind. Personally, my suggestion would be nothing any larger than a thirty caliber in the usual '06 based rounds.. I have had a built up 338-06 (03A3 Springfield based) and got not one but two 35 Whelens now (build up Mauser and a modified Model 70 Winchester) . I do have some reloading experience reloading these two. Great cartridges. Personally, using these rounds further than 200 yards lacks sportsmanship.
 
338-06 A-Square

BRAND: NoslerCustom Hand loaded Ammunition | BULLET STYLE: AccuBond
PART #: 26016 | COUNT: 20 | MSRP: $79.30
BULLET WEIGHT: 200 | BBL TWIST RQMT: 1-10"
FOR USE: Deer/Elk/Moose Sized Game | LEAD-FREE: N
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yards / Muzzle Velocity(FPS) Energy(FT-LBS) Drop In Inches(100YD) Zero Drop In Inches(200YD) Zero
MUZ: 2,800 3481 -1.5 -1.5
100: 2580 2956 0 1.9
200: 2371 2497 -3.7 0
300: 2172 2094 -13.7 -8.1
400: 1982 1745 -31 -23.5
500: 1803 1444 -57.2 -47.8
600: 1636 1189 -94.1 -82.9
700: 1483 976 -144 -131
800: 1346 805 -209.8 -194.9

Seems to me this ought to be good out to close to 400 yards? Am I wrong in thinking this? Unsportsmanlike ?
 
Or better yet!

338-06 A-Square

BRAND: NoslerCustom Hand loaded Ammunition | BULLET STYLE: AccuBond
PART #: 26035 | COUNT: 20 | MSRP: $79.30
BULLET WEIGHT: 225 | BBL TWIST RQMT: 1-10"
FOR USE: Deer/Elk/Moose Sized Game | LEAD-FREE: N
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yards / Muzzle Velocity(FPS) Energy(FT-LBS) Drop In Inches(100YD) Zero Drop In Inches(200YD) Zero
MUZ: 2,600 3376 -1.5 -1.5
100: 2441 2976 0 2.2
200: 2287 2614 -4.3 0
300: 2139 2286 -15.3 -8.8
400: 1997 1992 -33.9 -25.3
500: 1860 1729 -61.3 -50.4
600: 1730 1496 -98.6 -85.6
700: 1608 1291 -147.7 -132.5
800: 1493 1114 -210.1 -192.8
 
First of all, forget a 100yd zero.
Secondly, with out moving up to a .30cal magnum, you’re not going to see a discernible difference in either trajectory or killing power.

I’ve got a custom rebarreled MkX Mauser in .338/06. For elk in wooded areas, moose or large bears in wooded areas, WITH PROPER BULLETS, it’s as good as anything short of the .375Ruger and .375H&H.
However, it’s not the open country rifle the .270win is. I’ve got two. One is also a MkX Mauser with factory barrel and wood. I aquired it 40yrs after the one in .338 (originally a .30/06, killed my first deer with it in ‘76). It shoots easily under 1”@100yds 5-shots with a 140gr bullet over 58.0gr RL22. Gets 2,900fps.

However, both are range toys or closet queens. For mountain hunting in Colorado or Wyoming, I’ll take either my Rem Mod7 in 7mm08 or Colt LtRifle in .30/06. With a 140gr Accubond over RL17 with a 20” bbl at 7.5lbs, it’s fully the equal of the .270. (2,900fps!). Likewise the ‘06 with a 165gr at 3,000 (RL17) or 180gr at 2,800. I’ve got a Savage.300RUM, but I just don’t really care for it. Stock feels like a 2x4 in my hands. Recoil IS significant but so is power. It’s drawn blood on both ends every time it’s been fired in earnest. But I’d swap a “Weatherby Eye” for a decent bull elk in the batt of a bloody eye! Last time I elk hunted, I took it for opening day, but elk didn’t cooperate. Closest I came to a legal elk was about 1/2mile.

What I think you really want is a .300WSM or .300winmag.
The recoil isn’t as much more than the .270 as you think, trajectory similar to .270 but a little bit more punch on target.
If I were in your place, I’d look hard at the Winchester M70 SuperGrade stainless in .300winmag. Get the Leupold 3.5-10x, (finish your choice), and zero a 190gr AccubondLR at 300yds. Practice hold-over for 600yds, and get a good, compact rangefinder.
I’m lucky as I get to shoot at 600yds regularly. (CMP Talladega) However, I wouldn’t shoot at an elk that far unless everything was “just right”. Never is. Last time I had a 600yd shot on a elk, it was moving away, up hill, and I didn’t have the time or location to get into a shooting position. A “snap” shot was out of the question.
What I think you want is really a new “toy”. BTDT.
 
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I haven't settled on a cartridge just yet, but that 338-06 seems to fit pretty well with what I'm after. Rifle cost I'm looking to keep it under say $1500
 
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