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Need To Get Something Off My Chest...

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Ohio Rifleman, Aug 6, 2007.

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  1. Ohio Rifleman

    Ohio Rifleman Member

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    Mods, I apologize if this is out of line, but I just need to relate this incident to someone.

    Keep in mind a few things here: I'm 20 years old, and have been into guns/shooting since 18. My dad is an ex-LEO, was on the force for 17 years. He owns a Ruger P-series 9mm pistol. Now, with all that out of the way...

    I casually mentioned one day a few weeks ago that I might be interested in purchasing a shotgun for HD. (Since I'm a bit concerned about overpentration with my SKS, but that's been debated up and down) He just kinda chuckled and said "I'll take care of home defense."

    Now that REALLY irritated me, but I didn't say anything. To me, that's exactly the same as depending on the police to save you if anything happens. I mean, my dad can't be here 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. I know, since I'm over 18, legally, what he thinks doesn't mean squat. But still... Also, when I mention getting my CCW when I turn 21, he doesn't seem terribly enthusiastic about that, trotting out anti-sounding remarks like "Why do you think you need a CCW?" :cuss:

    I don't know, I just needed to relate that and see what my fellow High Roaders think about this.
     
  2. Zeke Menuar

    Zeke Menuar Member

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    Blow it off


    Once your 21

    Get your CHL

    Take every firearms training class you can, handgun, shotgun and rifle.

    Not much he can do or say after you turn 21.

    Good Luck

    ZM
     
  3. jefnvk

    jefnvk Member

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    Sorry to drag out the old saying, but its your dad's house, and your dad's rules.

    This coming from a 21 year old.
     
  4. RNB65

    RNB65 Member

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    Why are you still living with your parents at age 20? :p
     
  5. 1911 guy

    1911 guy Member

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    Speaking as a father.

    I don't know your Dad, but I'll take a stab at what he may be thinking about.

    You're a young man about to turn 18 and be a legal adult. His protection of you is about to end and he doesn't like it. Not that he wants to control you, he wants to shield you from what he knows is a big bad world out there. Take care of HD? He'd rather put himself in harms way a hundred times than see you get hurt by some thug with a crowbar or gun. CCW? He'd probably rather not think that his son would ever be the victim of anyone's ill intent and need it.

    It's an odd thing, seeing my perspective change now that I have a son of my own.

    Eh, I'm not sure why I thought you said you were 17. Forget the "about to turn 18" part.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2007
  6. Ohio Rifleman

    Ohio Rifleman Member

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    Let me clarify... Nobody's forbidding me or saying I absolutely CAN'T get a shotgun or a CCW (when I'm 21) he just doesn't seem to think I should. I still could do either of those things, except the CCW thing of course. I don't know, it just bothers me to think that he wants me to depend on him for protection in the house.
     
  7. Novus Collectus

    Novus Collectus Member

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    For now, if you only have the SKS and you are worried about overpenetration, then use sunsonic rounds using round or flat point bullets. Not sure if they sell them, but you might be able to reload your own. http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/762ProjectRifle.html
     
  8. CTPistol

    CTPistol Member

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    get your own house and keep as many shotguns as you want there.

    You know how he feels, pushing it will just cause it to go to the "my house, my rules" ending.

    and he's right.

    ;)
     
  9. SaxonPig

    SaxonPig Member

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    You are the young lion on your way up.

    He's the old lion on his way out.

    Don't take it personally, it's a primordial thing.

    When you are the head of the house you can say stuff like that to your kid.
     
  10. James T Thomas

    James T Thomas Member

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    home is your castle

    I hope that you do not discover that your father has liberal -socialism leanings. If it turns out so, realize that the process of educating him will take time and your patience.

    He is overdue to receive you as a grown adult male; an adjunct to the defense of his wife, your mother and your home. Even him, if he would think about it.

    How about your day to day behavior? At twenty -have you begun to exhibit a change from late teenage, or even college/ sophomoric traits?
    That may be part of the reason your father is percieving you as a youngster yet. Just a thought.

    He must know of the crime that goes on, out there on the streets and highways.

    How far do you travel to friends or recreational events?

    Ask him how long it will take to get to you if you are in danger and "need him to come and protect you?" Or for that matter -name the police in the juristiction you ask him for this example? He sould have first hand experience to make judgements about.

    If you do decide to be emancipated at the legal age, still show your father the respect he deserves, and along with your independence, show him how responsible you are by adherence to safe gun posession and handling, so that he may be reassured in his son's actions.
    Work this with your loving mother too.

    I always have confidence in my two grown son's abilitiy to defend themselves and their loved ones. It is a family strength quality.
     
  11. Bilt4Comfort

    Bilt4Comfort Member

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    You took the high road by not giving him a smartass reply. Now go to him and tell him what you told us. If he is a reasonable man, he will at least listen to your side of it with an open mind. If he doesn't...you're free to live under your own roof.
     
  12. Smokewagon45

    Smokewagon45 Member

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    Under his roof, he makes the rules. Get used to it.
     
  13. scubie02

    scubie02 Member

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    when it comes to a loved one, it doesn't matter how old you are--you're going to want to put yourself in harm's way before a loved one every time, and you may be 50 one day and him 70 or whatever, but you'll STILL be his kid, and he'll be sticking his frail old arm out if he has to hit the brakes and you're in the car...
     
  14. Ohio Rifleman

    Ohio Rifleman Member

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    One time, I asked him point-blank, how often he would actually interrupt a violent crime in progress (rape, robbery, assault, etc.) and he said that it was pretty rare to do that. Usually, they'd just show up after the fact. And I'll say again, he has not explicitly said I CANNOT get a shotgun or a CCW or anything like that. He just seems...unenthusiastic about either of these things for me.

    I have always been mature and intelligent for my age. My folks have always told me so. And in my room, right now, there is a Yugo SKS, an M44 Mosin, and a Ruger 10/22 and plenty of ammunition for all three. I'd say that's plenty of trust right there.

    I generally don't go terribly far from home, nor do I usually stay out very late. But things DO happen.

    Furthermore, I take safe gun handling VERY seriously. I've never had a major safety violation at the range or at home. In fact, when we were at the range with his gun-nut friend (also ex-LEO) he covered my dad with the muzzle of his .380 pistol. I didn't notice at the time, but he told me that after we got home.

    All in all, I don't think I've given my folks any reason not to trust me with a CCW or a shotgun for defense.
     
  15. Henry Bowman

    Henry Bowman Senior Member

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    Not exactly the same. He knows you personally. And, as stated, it's his house.

    You might want to rethink that. Really. In another 5 years, you'll be amazed how much smarter he has become in such a short time. ;)
     
  16. Ohio Rifleman

    Ohio Rifleman Member

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    Henry Bowman, what I meant by that was that I could go out and buy a shotgun without his help or anything and it would be legal. And it bears repeating, nobody has expressly forbidden me from doing anything. If I were to buy a shotgun, he would probably think it's a waste of money, but he wouldn't likely do anything about it.
     
  17. brighamr

    brighamr Member

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    I can relate

    When I was 17, I was actively involved in range competitions, hunting, and would go target shooting 2-4 times a week. My dad liked target shooting and was generally pro-2A.

    When I mentioned packing on a regular basis, or having a gun for home defense; he wouldn't get mad but he didn't want me to do either of them. I couldn't stand it at the time, but his reasoning was:

    a) if I couldn't pay for my own apartment, job, car, insurance, etc. I probably shouldn't be the one in charge of family security
    b) if I was ever found packing (at a party or at a friends house or at a school function or anywhere where non-2A people could be present) it would cause a whole slough of social problems

    I tried reasoning, but I never could win *while living at home. A couple years later, after having a steady job, going to college, buying my own car, my own insurance (basically being completely self-sustained). I did buy a mossberg and I did start to open carry my g17 whenever possible. I asked him then what his opinion was. He answered "I don't think you'll ever need that gun on your hip, or the shotgun in your house; but I do trust you to handle both of them and to take care of problems on your own now"

    Long story short, most parents wont completely trust\respect a son or daughter who lives off of their income. (In their eyes you are still their "baby-boy") Getting a steady job, manning up to your mistakes and paying for all your expenses by yourself usually earns their trust and respect.

    I'm not saying move out or anything, just trying to relate a similar experience and how it ended up. Nowadays, my dad often talks to me about 2A bills, laws, and general firearm questions because he thinks of me as the family expert NOT an industry expert ;) To tell you the truth, a main part of our father-son relationship is bashing gun-control bills and talking about the theories of individual gun rights.

    I hope this helps.

    *Don't take offense to all the people saying "his house, his rules". That's just a short way of saying it's hard to have total freedom when your not supporting yourself IMO.
     
  18. MOSINS

    MOSINS Member

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    Let it go, he'll get over it sooner than you think.

    Even if they don't approve of your plan to CCW, carry away anyway.

    :D
     
  19. martinc64

    martinc64 Member

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    When your dad's rules or his attitude about handling all the "man of the house" stuff starts bothering you it means you need to move out.

    Move out.
     
  20. grampster
    • Contributing Member

    grampster Member

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    Go buy a shotgun. Why are you making a mountain out of a molehill? You can do a lot of things with a good shotgun. Trap, skeet, hunt small game, deer, as well as having something around for HD.

    I won't give you any advice about what breed to purchase as I particularly like a couple of different brands for my own reasons. But I like the Ithaca mod. 37 Featherlite pump in 12 ga. and have an Ithaca XL900 semi auto in 20 ga. which is a fine multipurpose firearm. I have found my Browning Gold Hunter in 12 ga. to be a fine multipurpose shotgun as well.

    Go over to shotguns and there are lots of folks that can give you good advice.
     
  21. joplinsks

    joplinsks Member

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    I've faced these types of situations MANY times while living with my parents over the years... and believe it or not they still love me :) If I listened to all of their advise in protecting me, I wouldn't have much of a life. You gotta do what you gotta do.

    If you consider yourself an adult and make your own living, then you got to start making your own decisions... living at home or not. Sure it's your father's house and he has rules, but if you're contributing to the household, then you have a right to enjoy your surroundings.

    You mention owning a SKS and your Dad being a LEO... so don't see why your father would object to you owning a shotgun? In any case, if you want a shotgun... go buy one tomorrow. Get your CCW when you turn 21. Life's too short not to do what you want (within reason). With parents, it's sometimes better to ask forgiveness than ask permission.
     
  22. MT GUNNY

    MT GUNNY Member

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    Or maybe the father could not be a stuborn %$# and discus it like an adult.

    One thing that I see with My father is that he is old school "I see no need for a rifle that has a
    30 round mag, It only takes one round from a bolt action rifle ec......"
    He said after showing him my AR 15 one time.

    He grew up with single shot shotguns and bolt action rifles, (not that their is anything wrong with that)

    I supose when Im a father Ill see my kids bying laser pistols and say something like,
    "My M&P 40 will out gun that monstrosity of a weapon!!!
     
  23. Agouti

    Agouti Member

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    My dad was an LEO for 25 years, and I'm only 18. He bought an S&W 9mm.
    Funny how similar that it.

    Doesn't want me to get a CCW, or necessarily like me having guns.

    However, I've never considered the possibility of over-penetration with my SKS. I still don't. Of course, I'd probably use soft-points anyway. While I can legally buy my own arms, he won't let them into his house. I've just given in to this, occasionally makes deals with him, via quid pro quo, and modify current guns to fit the roles of guns he won't let me buy. When I was 15, I begged him to let me buy an AK. He said no. When I was 17, he still said no. Now that I'm 18, even though I can buy them, he won't let one into his house.

    However, it's more an issue of money. $800 is apparently too much to spend on a silly AK. He saw that I planned on saving up and was going to buy a bulgarian milled one behind his back (cops can read minds, I swear, I didn't act funny, or even mention it to him), and started demanding half of my pay check to be saved for spending money during my college years. He knew that I'd quit when the school year came around to focus on my studies, and therefore had masterfully created a situation where I couldn't afford that AK. First he thought they were just bad juju, and then he just thought they cost too much.

    Sure, he'll let me modify my SKS to take AK mags, honestly not caring about 922r, thinking it doesn't matter, because if he used to be an LEO and hasn't heard of it or doesn't care, then surely no one else will. But God forbid I get an AK. Sure, I can get a much more powerful k31, but no AK. Of course, my SKS doesn't take AK mags, if it did take them though, he wouldn't care -I've asked him. He'll even let me get it done, and took me to a few places to look around for such a thing. Of course, if I ever did, I'd make sure it was compliant. The total cost (including the price of the SKS) would be around $600-700, close to an AK, but still, can't get an AK.

    I think he might be developing tendencies similar to the feds. I worry for his sanity sometimes.

    Of course, we have five shotguns in the house, but I'm just not a fan of them.

    Also, however, I think he thinks I'm rather immature. I have some troubles driving and don't have my license.

    Meh, it's not bad at all, I guess. I'd rather have an SKS that can take AK mags over an AK anyway. I've decided just to go with the program. Hell, he's paying for my college and letting me live in his house, why should I complain?
     
  24. G21

    G21 member

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    Ohio Rifleman-

    You father stills sees you as his child. You getting a gun is not something a child does. A gun can represent something that is very serious, and as a present day LEO, I can say a gun can also represent a harse reality of life. Maybe he's just not ready to see his little boy grow up so fast.

    Perhaps you should try to involve him is a weapon selection, and ask him to give you some training lessons. Make this a right of passage between father and son.
     
  25. MP5

    MP5 Member

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    My take: you owe your father respect, and he owes the same to you, particularly since you're an adult and no longer a child . He should respect and encourage your desire to defend yourself, your family, and your home in a thoughtful, responsible manner. If you're doing the moral and legal thing, he really doesn't have much room for complaint.

    Parents are going to have mixed emotions about their child growing up and assuming the responsibilities--such as protection--previously reserved solely for themselves. But that's ultimately their issue, not yours. Parents need to point children in the right direction and then finally let go.
     
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