Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Ohio Rifleman, Aug 6, 2007.
I find it odd that I'm mature enough to volunteer for military service, but not to carry a handgun.
" I dout AGOUTIs father has a saftey issue with his son, cuz he already has a SKS which can be very dangerous in its self.."
He wasn't going to let me get one, but his best friend told him it was a decent rifle, and alright for deer hunting in Michigan (he kept on mentioning the beautifully machined charging handle... strangely enough). Originally, my dad's friend wanted me to get a .308, but when I mentioned a CETME, my dad was even less keen on the idea -partly the cost, (it was around 1 grand) and also, after 3 shots with his .30-06, my arm was hurting, so I stopped shooting it, -the .308 was pretty close to this, and he decided the recoil would wreak havoc on my shoulder.
Interesting that nobody has thought of the possibility that perhaps the OP is concerned that his father shows some signs of being the type of LEO that is against "citizen" carry.
I'm the professional, the citizens should not be carrying guns mentality is nothing new is it ? Perhaps this is the real reason and concern , and has nothing to do with the father - son thing , or the my house thing ?
I'm 61. Mom (she's 92) still thinks I'm her "little boy".... I moved out about 35 years ago....
Dad, who passed away in 1999, had pretty much the same attitude until I'd been out of the house for about a year.
On topic: Dad, who had been in the military, and had checked out on machine guns and the 1911, and likely an '03, pretty much said "no guns without a badge". Got myself sworn in (rent-a-cop) in 1967.... That showed him .... (Never went full time - my day job paid a lot more and was far less infected with politics. The rent-a-cop work was a combination of fun and extra money.)
'Course, you have to be 21....
The "can be a soldier, but can't carry a handgun at home" thing is nanny state stuff. Typical of OH, but common in most states. I know 21-year-olds who are mature enough, and 60-year-olds who aren't.... There's probably no reliable test, so an artificial number has been agreed on by people who are much older....
Lets face it, too, that mom & dad still see a rugrat.... I do it too - my daughter's 21 and I'm still seeing her tossing bits of fishsticks to the dog from her high chair....
You'll get there eventually....
I don't see that age limit changing anytime soon....
you have an SKS and there is a 9mm in the house as well correct. Granted your an adult but you have the means to protect yourself live with that and let the issue go, when you move out on your own you can get all the guns you want. Pick your fights wisely and IMO this is not one to fight as you already have an SKS.
It's hard to turn off the dad switch, he probably doesn't want you to shoot someone that doesn't need shooting. On the other hand, when my step daughter moved out of the house(she says I kicked her out) She got a basic pistol class from the nra and a kel tec p11 as a house warming gift.
She got a baretta neos for her last birthday and a (inexpensive) 1911 for christmas.
If I thought she liked longguns, she would get one of those but right now, she is tryning to get ahold of her mom's Bersa .380.
Have you tried just asking him if he would mind you getting a shotgun, just because you want a shotgun? Not for any other reason?
Perhaps, during his years as an LEO, he saw some pretty nasty things, and doesn't want to see you faced with those harsh realities. He may see himself as protecting you from it...maybe. Not saying he's right but he may have different motivations than you think, regardless of how illogical it sounds.
OhioRifleman, I come to this as a parent of a 21 year old also. She is exceptionally mature for her age, but she is not all that old yet. I remember when I was her age too, and I thought I had arrived at adulthood. There was still a long way to go, and today, at the ripe old age of 48, I can still see that sometimes.
Your father did not forbid you to buy a shotgun, and that says a lot about his respect for you. But he knows you better than you might think. Perhaps he sees some of his own youth in you - it is not unheard of you know. So buy the gun, but lay low on the HD stuff. It's not like you need to bring it up on a regular basis or anything. If you need it, it will be there, and perhaps someday when you are talking to your own 21 year old, you will remember this event, and see it from the perspective of your father.
Think his head would explode if you got a Saiga-12 and a case of slugs?
my bro is a cop
He has hardly any interest in guns and often doesn't carry off duty.
Some cops are just like that, secretly, get real good in ISPC or IDPA
and take him to a match some day.
Surprise the heck out of him!
Since he hasn't forbidden you to do so, get the shotgun and your CCW & calmly remind him that you know that home defense is his responsibility but it becomes yours when he's not around or (god forbid) if something happens to him during the course of that responsibility. He can't radio for backup anymore. If he makes an issue of it, it's probably time to get your own place.
"Think his head would explode if you got a Saiga-12 and a case of slugs?"
Not sure. I didn't get a job this summer, the local grocer was pretty much the only employer in this small town (didn't want me, I'm 18 now so I have to get paid minimum wage... I'd work for less though...), and to get to the big(ger) town 30 miles over, one needs to be able to drive. Sure, I applied everyone, and I'm doing some small work for a photo company, but it's not enough to buy a Saiga.
Yes, I was planning on getting one of those... though I'd had no idea where to store it. Maybe if I just kept it in it's case, he wouldn't notice it next to his shotguns that he only uses a few times during the fall.
Ohio Rifleman: Sir; a nerve has been Struck;
At 18 years of age Quite a number of received in the Mail a Piece of Paper.
That Paper prompted us to BECOME MILITARY. Sir we did not Volunteer.
At a little stronger than 18 years; some of had been Shot; stabbed, beat, and fed a bunch of mosquitoes. Times are different now. Professional they Call It.
Sir; at 18 we were trained to tough standards; not that a lot of us wanted to be there. I Grumbled as many of my compatriots.
Now imagine; returning from an active situation; going to a local club;
BEING REFUSED ENTRANCE because of AGE.
Sir: discrimination at the worst; And I didn't want to Military to start with.
You suggest an Arugument that some of us have enjoyed [read smartassed}
The givens at your Home seem MIGHTY FINE: only one grumble.
Sir: I encourage you to re-visit my original thoughts.
The edge is off now
Good Luck, Craig
I do think that if I mentioned buying a shotgun for busting clays, that wouldn't be a big deal. There's a trap range at the outdoor range we go to, so it wouldn't be a big deal. We also have several clay targets we wanted to use, but some over-zealous RO said we couldn't use 'em.
My dad did say that being around strangers with guns makes him a bit nervous. Probably just old cop instincts, I think. When you're a uniformed LEO and someone you don't know has a gun, chances are, bad things are about to happen, or are happening. I don't think he's a closet anti.
Get Dad to Train You
I still think there's merit in soliciting training from your dad.
I mean, heck, better than learning from a stranger, right?
Buy a Mossberg Combo and say you're into bird hunting.
I couldn't agree more. And "professional" training costs money. Money that I don't have. I've shot my dad's 9mm, and I don't particularly care for it. My dad's gun-nut friend (who covered my dad with the muzzle of a .380) once brought some hardware for us to shoot. Including a Smith and Wesson .357 revolver, a .40 Beretta pistol (I think) an M1 Garand (Lots of fun!!) and a slug gun. (I could only 2-3 rounds out of that sucker before I threw in the towel) Had a blast, I especially loved hearing that Ping! when the Garand ejected the clip. I'd heard that noise countless times in all the first-person WW2 shooters I've played. I didn't like any of the handguns except the revolver. I decided that I'm a revolver guy. Don't particularly care for semi-auto pistols.
Anyway, my dad's already taught me what little I know about handgun shooting as well. Maybe I could talk him into giving me a bit of free training.
You have no idea how happy that will make him!
"Ok Dad, but what do I do if you're not home to protect your little boy?" (to be said in a good-natured tone with a big smile)
how about you say something like
"Yes Dad, I respect you and I owe my every skill in firearms to you and your patience in teaching me safety and marksmenship. I will do whatever you wish as I owe the food that I eat, and the roof over my head to your hard work."
I remember being 20, I lived in the 'bad part of town' where the rent was cheap. In Wichita, KS....even the worst part ain't all that bad. I bought a mossberg 500 12 gauge and a box of 00 buckshot with a full two-weeks paycheck. I'm 25 now, and I bought MY DAD a Taurus pt99 for father's day two years ago, and never ever mention anything gun related around them until recently when I found out that they weren't as anti-gun as I originally thought.
Respect your parents' wishes or get out. I know that's the social aspect of it, but I've had my 19 year old brother living in my house for over a year because of a spat with our mom about him spending too much time with his girlfriend. He learned real quick, if I'm paying the mortgage he's gonna do what I say....and that meant full time school, at least part time work and half the utilities. No rules on girlfriends, but be respectful because I'm going to work in the morning to pay for this lovely roof over your head. Funny thing is, those were the rules I had to live by when I was 19 that made me move out in the first place.
Bottom line, you're an adult. I moved out at 20, got my degree at 25 with no debt and a few guns in the closet and a full belly most nights. You've got to work for freedom, amigo, and there's no freedom like owning your own home.
Powdered Butt Syndrome
There's a thing called Powdered Butt Syndrome that says that once someone has powdered your butt, it's almost impossible to gain that person's full respect.
You'll eventually get there, but there's no need to push it with your dad.
I have to ask if you've ever considered going into the military? It would give you an opportunity to broaden your horizons and earn your own way through school. Of course they won't let you play with guns if you're in the military - unless they send you somewhere where people are trying to kill you, in which case they will let you carry a gun and ammo, but both have a safety wire that you have to get an officer's permission to break.
Look at it this way, you have another 60 years to go; plenty of time to learn, grow, and earn respect.
I think you missed an opportunity for the best come-back evar!
"Because I can't bring you with me everywhere I go, dad."
From the point of view of youth, parents can be utterly contrary &/or obtuse sometimes, speaking from the position of having had them and been one.
A couple notes;
Over penetration: frangible bullets are available....
shotguns: Mossbergs, 590 & a self-loader 931 (Big 5, on sale at about 450bux otd). Each is dandy and easy in it's own right, takes up to 3" shells, & the self-loader is very easy on the shoulder, holds 5 std rounds, & so far digests everything from heavy to light loads.
Somebody one said something to the effect that if you dial 911, call an ambulance & order a pizza, you can ikely eat the pizza while you wait on the other 2. That's about all I can think of to say on somebody else's looking out for my health & wellbeing.
I'm on you're side, Ohio. Many moons ago my kids (school age) were shooting full-auto stuff along with the usual single=shot .22rfs. Not long ago my wife and I, and our youngest daughter (now 39 and a NASA Aerospace Engineer) attended the required safety class - and range outing - here in Florida to obtain our Personal Carry licenses.
In high school I once owned 152 guns, many more than now. We lived outside town on 3 acres surrounded by farms, fronting on the old National Highway (US 40) which was pre-Interstate. On those 3 acres I had a nice after-school gun business, AND a place to shoot. Dad owned 2 guns: a Colt 1903 .32acp and a Stevens double 20ga.
I've ALWAYS carried a gun. Thankfully, never had to use it. But, it sure was a comfort when threatened. I consider it cheap insurance. I'd rather have it and NOT need it, than to need it and NOT have it.
It's YOUR life and safety that's at stake, and you certainly can't have Daddy with you 24/7. Follow your instincts. Daddy won't be around forever. Would be interested in knowing what (if) you decide.
Best regards, ~~~45Broomhandle
YES, there IS a place for all of God's creatures: right next to the potatoes and gravy.
There's your problem. You think that since you are 20 years old, your dad doesn't run the show. Unfortunately, you are in his house. He does run the show whether you like it or not. You don't like it? It's time for you to move out.
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